Customer Service in the old days versus now.

[LizzieMaine]

That's the thing. *IS* it better? Is a kid who goes a hundred grand in debt to get a degree in Popular Culture and spends four years in close study of the sociocultural ramifications of Star Trek or Spider-Man really "educated" in any way that will benefit him in the real world? Or has he just been done out of a hundred grand by a system that told him what he wanted to hear and cut him loose when he ran out of money to spend?

Some of these "universities" ought to buy a flatbed truck, hire a string band and an Indian chief, and go into the medicine show business, because snake oil is what they're selling.

 

[Edward]

It strikes me that a lot of it is profiteering, plain and simple. If people feel that they *have to* have something, the purveyor of that something will jack the price up and up and up --

Yip. That's how capitalism works.

it's like the parasites who drive thru disaster areas with trucks full of water, selling it for ten dollars a bottle to all comers. It's like that with education today -- people don't make a rational decision to go to college, they're forced into it by the current system where we're brainwashed by the Boys From Academic Marketing into thinking that the guy who comes around to fix the copy machine needs to have at least a BA, and the gal who takes down the death notices at the local weekly needs a Masters in English. "If you don't go to college you can't get a job! Bachelors degree required for all applicants! You won't even get a job on a garbage truck -- they all have degrees in solid-waste management now!"

And yet industrial society functioned perfectly well for decades with only a tiny fraction of the population carrying post-secondary degrees. I wouldn't want anyone with less than a PhD designing moon rockets, but does the guy who fills the coffee machine in the base commissary also need a degree? Is that at all rational? Is the coffee any better?

Speaking as someone who works in that sector and has been a professional academic for well over a decade now, I agree with you that too many people are being coerced and cajoled into studying which is unnecessary for their career path, for the reason that they have been made to feel it is. I would dearly love to move to a world where education is valued for its own sake as personally enriching, irrespective of future employment, where those who have the capability and desire to go to university are facilitated, while those who do not also are.

As to the artificial inflation of necessary qualifications for certain jobs, this does happen. Equally (in my experience, more) common, however, is the experience of those who leave college and end up long term unemployed. Not through any unwillingness to work or work "beneath" them (as some might perceive it), but for the simple fact that endless employers refuse to take them on for jobs for which those employers consider them "overqualified", the assumption being "you'll just leave as soon as you find something better". Meanwhile, the jobs for which they are not "overqualified" reject them as they lack the mythical "two years' experience" which every single job in their field demands...

Also a problem are those industries which cry out for vocational qualifications relevant to them, only to treat new recruits with their hard-won degrees as cheap bar staff, promoting ahead of them people who left school at sixteen, barely literate, as they have "experience". If the latter are what they want, why demand the former? (Of course, I suspect the year-long placements that form part of such degrees are the reason - a student studying catering management makes for cheaper labour than hiring "real" bar staff or house-keeping staff).

The saddest part is that a while back I read about a particular college that hiked up tuition -- nothing surprising there. The suprising part was that enrollment at this college INCREASED after the tuition hike! :doh:

Capitalism 101 - perceived value. This is exactly what happened in the UK: the government put a ceiling of GBP9,000 on tuition fees and then feigned shock when everywhere went for the max, as nobody wanted to be the "budget education provider". Gibson did the same thing around the end of the Eighties. Les Pauls were deeply out of fashion, not selling. A new CEO came on board and reasoned they needed to reposition themselves in the market as a lucury, lifestyle brand. They doubled the price of a Les Paul. End result: sales shot up.

 

[scottyrocks]

When Lexus began selling cars, their bottom line car was essentially a rebadged car already in the Toyota lineup. Of course, the Lexus version was priced considerably higher. And it sold in large numbers.

 

[Shangas]

That's the thing. *IS* it better? Is a kid who goes a hundred grand in debt to get a degree in Popular Culture and spends four years in close study of the sociocultural ramifications of Star Trek or Spider-Man really "educated" in any way that will benefit him in the real world? Or has he just been done out of a hundred grand by a system that told him what he wanted to hear and cut him loose when he ran out of money to spend?

Some of these "universities" ought to buy a flatbed truck, hire a string band and an Indian chief, and go into the medicine show business, because snake oil is what they're selling.

You know, that reminds me of that university in England (Liverpool?) which was offering a...and yes, you can look this up if you wish...a degree in "Beatleology".

"So, what qualifications do you have?"
"I hold a Bachelor of Beatleology from the University of Liverpool..."
"I...see..."

God help us if in 30 years from now, we've got universities offering Degrees in Bieberism.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Capitalism 101 - perceived value. This is exactly what happened in the UK: the government put a ceiling of GBP9,000 on tuition fees and then feigned shock when everywhere went for the max, as nobody wanted to be the "budget education provider".

And worse, employers have bought into the Brand Name Syndrome that permeates higher education because someone who graduates from Harvard or Yale in the bottom half of their class is still more likely to land the job than someone who graduated from Podunk State University at the top of their class. Personally I'd much rather go to PSU because in the very least the student loans would only take half a career instead of an entire one to pay off.

 

[1961MJS]

It's often assumed, as I'm sure everyone knows, that if something costs more, it's automatically of better quality. This, as I'm also sure everyone knows (or at least, everyone on this forum) isn't true. It's how they trap the stupid and gullible into throwing away their money.

Hi

That reminds me of my late Dad. When gas prices went up last year, he said, "I need to get the good more expensive gas, while they still have it." Being a retired Math Teacher with a masters degree, people looked at him weird because I know a few of them thought he was serious.

...
"So, what qualifications do you have?"
"I hold a Bachelor of Beatleology from the University of Liverpool..."
"I...see..."

God help us if in 30 years from now, we've got universities offering Degrees in Bieberism.

You REALLY need to get started on that right away while the 13-18 year old girls can apply for those classes. Don't wait until he's chubby and divorced from Madonna or whoever.

Later

 

[Edward]

You know, that reminds me of that university in England (Liverpool?) which was offering a...and yes, you can look this up if you wish...a degree in "Beatleology".

"So, what qualifications do you have?"
"I hold a Bachelor of Beatleology from the University of Liverpool..."
"I...see..."

God help us if in 30 years from now, we've got universities offering Degrees in Bieberism.

That was clearly a populist, attention-grabbing programme (even if the Beatles' significance to twentieth century popular music and, indeed, popular culture in general does merit significant academic study) - fortunately that sort of course is a great deal rarer than some of the populist press would like you to believe.

And worse, employers have bought into the Brand Name Syndrome that permeates higher education because someone who graduates from Harvard or Yale in the bottom half of their class is still more likely to land the job than someone who graduated from Podunk State University at the top of their class. Personally I'd much rather go to PSU because in the very least the student loans would only take half a career instead of an entire one to pay off.

That is an issue. It's certainly a truism that it's the same at all level of education... the difference is that whereas an A level is an A level no matter where sat, so an A Star is an A Star, a degree will be valued on the basis of the institution. Were I to over-share on this matter, there are some stories I could tell you about how horrifically some very big name places coast on their brand name reputation while offering abysmal teaching.... The one plus of the vastly increasing fees is (I hope, anyhow) universities in the UK won't get away with offering shoddy teaching and paying little attention to it in favour of research, which is where all the kudos has gone in the last twenty years...

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

Going back to the original title of the thread, Customer Service. The REAL Customer Service DEPARTMENT is essentially the complaint department. I remember seeing joke on the order of, "No little boys and girls stay up at night dreaming of being in Customer Service." Yep, that's no joke.

Later

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I would hire someone with a degree in Bieberology, if anything, for their qualities of endurance of having to suffer through hours of Justin Bieber.

 

[Juliet]

I would hire someone with a degree in Bieberology, if anything, for their qualities of endurance of having to suffer through hours of Justin Bieber.

But what if they've actually enjoyed it?

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

That's the thing. *IS* it better? Is a kid who goes a hundred grand in debt to get a degree in Popular Culture and spends four years in close study of the sociocultural ramifications of Star Trek or Spider-Man really "educated" in any way that will benefit him in the real world? Or has he just been done out of a hundred grand by a system that told him what he wanted to hear and cut him loose when he ran out of money to spend?

Some of these "universities" ought to buy a flatbed truck, hire a string band and an Indian chief, and go into the medicine show business, because snake oil is what they're selling.

Not only are the peripheral classes worthless, (like the Beatleology example or my example classes like "Post-modern transgender relations in Bolivia and its impact on Western culture") but I hypothesize that grades are incredibly inflated now than they were back in the old days. Today's mantra is, "Don't know the material? That's alright. We'll give you a star sticker anyone for you being you. Too busy playing video games and wasting your time to at the bare minimum read the text? That's ok! Here's a B or C."

Why even offer such a useless classes. Sounds like a money grab or scam on people who don't know any better.

Like something that is off the education beaten path, go the library and research it yourself. Find a website or blog and post about with other individuals. But don't spend $3,000 + on a class about it.

With grade inflation, useless classes, and an education system that is beginning to focus more onsoft sciences, the whole system is going the way of the dodo.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Meanwhile, the jobs for which they are not "overqualified" reject them as they lack the mythical "two years' experience" which every single job in their field demands...

And it's even more maddening to think that at one time the person who rejected you (most likely somebody's nephew) didn't have the requisite amount of experience for the job either.

 

[Edward]

And it's even more maddening to think that at one time the person who rejected you (most likely somebody's nephew) didn't have the requisite amount of experience for the job either.

Probably not, but this is what happens when you get the level of contempt for education that we see today (evenly split between coming from those who dropped out as early as possible, and those who did very well out of it but now object to those coming after them getting the same breaks. Generally both groups are very poorly informed, merely parrotting whatever newsrag they read / watch). You see it all in this business.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't really have a problem with these flaffy majors you see nowadays as long as the kid taking one understands that it's highly unlikely that it's going to be the stepping stone to a career as a world-renowned Beatles expert or as a Vice President In Charge of Star Trek at Paramount, or likely much else beyond shift manager at Orange Julius. If they want to spend a hundred g's on something like that, they either don't ever have to worry about earning a living in the first place, or nobody ever sat them down and explained what a "loan" means. It's like my cousin, who's five foot three and built like a 1948 Hudson, tying his entire high school dreams to getting a college basketball scholarship and from there playing in the NBA. Today he drives an oil truck and is an older, wiser, sadder, five-foot-three man.

The problem I see is that "college education" nowadays is being sold and forced down students' throats as something it isn't -- a sure passport to a solid future, and a necessary preparation to the World of Work. That's not college, for one thing, that's a trade school -- and there's no way it should cost even a quarter as much as it does.

 

[Stanley Doble]

You can take some measure of comfort that in this economy Miss Ivy League with her useless degree is probably standing behind a counter somewhere -- and most likely even had to move back in with Mom. Revenge can be sweet.

With $100,000 of unpayable, unforgivable student loan debt to boot.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Higher education has turned into a racket. The US govt changed the bankruptcy law in about 2005, now you cannot get out of paying a student loan even if you declare bankruptcy. Interest rates are low. Young people are naive and optimistic. It is no trouble at all to get them to borrow any amount for education. The sky is the limit, at least they have not reached the limit yet. It is hard to believe in today's job market but they are still flocking to the hallowed halls.

It really gets brutal if you miss a few payments or go into default. It seems to take no time at all before your debt doubles, with penalties, interest, and back payments.

A good racket for the schools, who can charge what they like and a good racket for the banks who can milk the suckers for their whole working lives. Not such a good deal for society or for the suckers, I mean students, but until they wise up, why not ride the gravy train?

What is especially ironic is that if any other business pulled such a vicious, cynical racket the academics would be screaming blue murder. They are quick to condemn profiteering with any evidence, or no evidence at all, unless the money is going into their own pockets.

 

[Stanley Doble]

If you think the collapse of the dot com bubble was bad, and the real estate bubble was worse, wait till the student loan bubble explodes.

Remember you heard it here first.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Higher education has turned into a racket. The US govt changed the bankruptcy law in about 2005, now you cannot get out of paying a student loan even if you declare bankruptcy. Interest rates are low. Young people are naive and optimistic. It is no trouble at all to get them to borrow any amount for education. The sky is the limit, at least they have not reached the limit yet. It is hard to believe in today's job market but they are still flocking to the hallowed halls.

It really gets brutal if you miss a few payments or go into default. It seems to take no time at all before your debt doubles, with penalties, interest, and back payments.

A good racket for the schools, who can charge what they like and a good racket for the banks who can milk the suckers for their whole working lives. Not such a good deal for society or for the suckers, I mean students, but until they wise up, why not ride the gravy train?

What is especially ironic is that if any other business pulled such a vicious, cynical racket the academics would be screaming blue murder. They are quick to condemn profiteering with any evidence, or no evidence at all, unless the money is going into their own pockets.

Bravo. Well said.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Also many of the major universities are sitting on billions of dollars in accumulated gifts, endowments, etc, UNTOUCHED.

 

[Mr. Hallack]

Hopefully what I'll write here is kind of tied in to this thread. I tend to ramble.

I grew up with the idea, planted by my parents that a college degree will automatically get you a decent paying job, even if has nothing to do with your major. So I spent a multitude of years to earn my bachelor's degree in....Anthropology. I liked the subject, for a while. But had no idea what my long term career goals were going to be. My work experience was (and still is) sales and customer service. Well as quoting a line from Futurama "You have a degree in baloney!!" If my oldest wants to college, I will only encourage him to go if he knows what he wants to do in life and it does require a college education. If not, he's going to trade school, or getting a trade on his own. I am not going to have him make the mistake which I did (and I feel that, for me, college was a waste of time)

Finding a job has been a real pain. Since November I have been working part time at a new mini-mart. And this is from searching for almost 2 years for a job. Any kind of job. I had always applied for the better paying places, manufacturing jobs, drivers, etc. It seemed like that cause a place advertised that they are hiring, in reality they weren't. Which where I am working now I find myself in a place where my job is customer service again. And for me, it is extremely important to give excellent customer service. Even if it just a mini-mart. The best part is my manager feels the exact way I do too (along with the asst. manager) We've talked about our bad customer service experiences and how we can improve the customer service experience at our store. Even if I am in a crappy mood or half awake on a long shift, I always make the customer feel welcome and want to continue doing business with us. I like to think that we are the exception where management feels that employees are important, along with the customer. I know I can't make every customer happy, but it's not a lack of trying on my part.

Again I hope what I am saying is relevant here, I am half asleep and out of coffee at the moment.