Customer Service in the old days versus now.

[MisterCairo]

LizzieMaine, the way you talk, you're reminding me of that British sitcom, "Are You Being Served?", which, by the way, is bloody hilarious.

"I'm free!"


I live in a rural hamlet just outside Stratford, Ontario, theatre town, great downtown shopping district, about 32,000 people. Customer service is usually good to excellent, even in the chain stores. Some of the big box stores may have the odd ignorant teen working, but at one store for example, Canadian Tire (my fellow Canucks will know this is an institution up here), there is a guy with over FIFTY years service, and the coolest handlebar moustache and pork chop side burns in the universe. Started at that very store at age 15, still there!

There is nothing he doesn't know...

 

[scottyrocks]

I was a part of that same situation when I was a kid. People who worked in retail shops were there for life, it seemed, but they were often the owners of one-person operations. My Buster Brown was called 'Lenny's Buster Brown.' Lenny owned and worked it. He would fit me for shoes, not just ring up the sale. The little toy store, 'Party Center,' was run and owned by Max. None of the stores on the avenue had kids working in them. All employees were responsible adults, as far as I can remember.

My mom worked in a Waldbaums. I don't know if teens worked there back then. I'd have to ask her.

 

[Edward]

Oddly, not something I have a massive problem with. Maybe I'm just fussier about where I go than I realise. The world's a big place, and if you don't have the stock / service I'd like, I'll go elsewhere. The really awful customer service I've had in recent years has always been with "budget" airline travel. Like everyone else, I put up with it to some degree because saving money is sometime more important. I prefer the train as a rule, but between Belfast and London, that's not a realistic option, especially if you're going for less than a week (it'd be around a 20 hour journey door to door).

I'm actually really proud of the kids who work for us -- there are good, hardworking, smart teenagers out there, they just need to be made to feel like they're doing something worthwhile and important instead of just shoving french fries into a bag or pushing groceries across a counter. When I get lousy service at a restaurant or a store I don't blame the kids -- they're just taking the path of least resistance. I blame the management, which clearly doesn't care enough to train its staff properly, or to pay managers enough to care about training staff properly. The rot in any company begins at the top, not the bottom.

Absolutely. Ryanair, case in point. Legendarily awful customer service....for precisely the reason that they are, by reputation, not a nice company for whom to work. An staff which feels unvalued has no motivation to pass on quality service. given the abuse some airline staff re ceive, I couldn't honestly say I'd be that inclined to be helpful on whatever pittance they're paid either. We'll see more of this too as the economy continues to dip and many workers are exploited safe in the knowledge they don't have other options.

There are a lot little places in my town that have good customer service. Most of the big places that people go to the cheap prices tend to poor customer service and staff that is unknowledgable.
That doesn't always hold true, though. The Borders store we had in town was staffed with very helpful friendly people. A local comic book store is the opposite.

I went into a Hot Topic shop in the mall. I had seen a Batman item there before and decided to buy it. They sold out and I wondered if they were going to get anymore. I was directed to the manager who said they sold out quickly. I asked if he was going to order more of them. He said "No". I told him it seemed like they would order more since it sold well. He looked at me like I was a fool and explained with a sigh that when something sells out you get something different and finished with "That's how retail works."

Sincerely,
The Wolf

Quite common. Was a time I bought a lot of stuff in Next (UK chain) until they started changing their collections three times a year. Essentially it got to the point where if you didn't buy something as soon as you saw it, you wouldn't see it again. I can't be bothered with that. If I like something, I'll want another when it wears out. I have no time for change for its own sake. I'm probably not the typical repeat customer, though.

Last Friday I did take-out at a local Indian restaurant. Their credit card machine went down and they processed multiple orders telling the customers, "pay us the next time you come." That is a rare and impressive example of customer service.

Risky move, but they'd certainly get my business back, and I'd make a point of ensuring my bill was paid in full.

I think nowadays it would be rare to find somebody who's still there after twelve months, much less remembers you. Retail tends to have fairly high turnover, it's the kind of job somebody takes in the meantime until something better comes along, though it didn't used to be that way. As I kid I remember accompanying my Mom on her shopping trips and I seem to recall, for example, that many of the shoe salesmen were often men in their 40s and 50s who had done that job for years. Whereas today the person who sells you shoes is likely to be some college kid who will have moved on to bigger and better things after 12-18 months.

Though incredibly, there's a CVS near my old high school and junior high school and the manager has been there some 35-40 years in a variety of capacities because I remember him working there in the mid '70s stocking shelves and sweeping the aisles when I used to stop there for ice cream after school. Though back then it was Clark Drug Store which later became Thrifty's and then eventually CVS.

You're seeing the result of two generations raised to chase a "career" for its own sake, and to look down on retail. Also, the result of corporate cultures where management often only want kids right out of school whom they can pay less and have far fewer obligations towards under employment law. I've known so many people be exploited it's not funny.... more than one I've known who were kept on short term contracts - always renewed, always knew they would be renewed, but by keeping them on that way the employer had minimal responsibilities to sick pay, not to fire at will, redundancy rights... (and yet there are still some who sneer at the idea of unions...).

Do shoe salesmen even exist anymore? All the shoe stores around here, you rummage thru boxes or around on a rack and hope you can find your size, and that the correct shoes are actually in the correct box, and if you're not sure about your size, there's the Brannock thingie on the floor, knock yourself out. You then shuffle over to a counter, stand in a long line, and some sullen kid rings you up. It's one step up from buying shoes from a vending machine, and if they can build one big enough, that kid is out of a job.

And one of the biggest drivers towards that are those who demand their goods as cheaply as possible. I do think it is rapidly coming down to whether peope are prepared to pay for service... and indeed whether we can. I may live alone and therefore not have the obligations many do, but equally it means it's costing me significantly more per head, as it were, to run my household than those who don't live alone. While I'd ove to stick to independent retailers, very often I just can't justify a significant upcharge to do so.

There are a number of issues that have rendered customer service into an entirely new beast.

1. (I hate to bring this from another thread) Consumerism vs. Capitalism - when ACME knows you're going to buy their product one way or the other, or when their products have little difference in value from ZENITH's products, there's no need to hire a salesman.

Supply and demand - exactly.

3. Smirking patrons bent on exploiting a compay's trust. The people who put shards of glass on their last slice of pizza and refuse to pay. People who place insane demands on their waiter hoping to get a discount on their bill. People who make a mistake in ordering and then berate everyone up the chain of command until they get "results", never once admitting their own failure. I realize these bad apples shouldn't ruin the lot, but I think a certain level of exhaustion, mixed with the two above points, has caused young adults to become callused in the way they deal with future customers.

Even just basic disrespect, contempt towards salespeople or waiting staff. Honestly, some of the ways I've seen table staff treated in popular restaurants, I've been about to leave my seat to offer to help them spit in the food...

4. Corporate efficiency sometimes = utter blindness. When ACME tells its clerks that Store A should be run using the corporate list of rules, and that under no circumstances should one deviate from those rules, big problems often slip through the gaps. Managers get sacked for letting a non-patron use the restrooms, employees are canned for discounting broken merchandise, clerks are cut because they offer a sale one day early.

to the extent where I sometimes wonder are these businesses being run by ex-military.

6. A few words: College-degree-wth-no-actual-experience.

Occasionally, but in my experience far less common than those with a contemptuous agenda towards "college education" would like us all to believe.

Hi V. C. It's also likely that she has a huge Ivy League school loan. My son (a seventh year Junior, but working full time) said that Wichita State University had a 7% graduate hiring rate in 2009. I haven't bothered to look online, but that's the rate of kids graduating and getting a job within their major. I know of two boys who graduated from ABET accredited Engineering schools in 2009 and 2010, the 2010 grad was finally employed in late 2011, the 2009 grad is going back to school to become a pastor. A BSEE or BSME and a pulse used to be you at least 5-6 job offers, not anymore though.

Working as an academic, perhaps the most depressing thing in my professional world has been the slow evaporation of valuing education for its own sake as opposed to the nasty "will I get paid more if I have this qualification" cheapening of knowledge. In part I can't blame them - there are going to be a hell of a lot of kids graduating within the next ten years that may never be able to afford to buy their own home due to the level of debt their education will incur - so I can see why this focus happens, but it's soul destroying to see a society created where knowledge and learning are valued so little.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

I've got a real doozie for you guys. You might not even believe it when you see it, but I assure you this is a real email chain; the only change is that I've deleted my family's names for privacy.

As a few loungers know, I've been half way around the world for the past several weeks (and probably at least 3 more) doing an international adoption. Before we left Canada, we were forced by Air Canada to buy return tickets leaving our country of destination. We didn't need or want these tickets, but they forced us to buy them or they wouldn't board us on our flight. They assured us that the tickets were fully refundable and that the code share, LOT airlines, would do the refund. The following is the email chain I sent to Air Canada:

From: ***
Sent: 24 April, 2012 1:02 AM
To: refundservices.remboursement@aircanada.ca
Subject: Refunds for 4 tickets purchased at VIA on 19 April 2012
Hello,

The purpose of this email is to request a complete refund on 4 tickets purchased at VIA on 19 April 2012. Air Canada demanded that we purchase return tickets out of Ukraine or they would not board us. We do not need these tickets and will be purchasing tickets at a later date through our travel agent, therefore a full refund would be appreciated as soon as possible. We were assured by the agent at VIA that the tickets were fully refundable. The ticketing details are as follows:

***ticketing details deleted***


We were told by your agent in Vancouver that we could get refunds directly from LOT airlines, but when we attempted to do so at the office in Kiev, we were told that they could not access the booking information and that we would have to get a refund directly from Air Canada. Unfortunately Air Canada does not have an office in Kiev. You may refund the full amount to the credit card provided at the time of purchase. Your prompt response and assistance is very greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely,

***


As your ticket were our chased directly with LOT you need to submit your refund request to them directly The issuing airline needs to do the refund
Thank you

Hello

It seems that you did not read my email. I purchased the tickets at VANCOUVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT from an AIR CANADA AGENT. I did not purchased them from LOT, and when I attempted to get a refund from LOT they informed me that they could do nothing for me and that I would have to go to Air Canada. Please refund the tickets as your agent promised.
Thank you,

***

Good Day,

Whichever airline issues the tickets holds the funds for those tickets. So if the tickets below are unused and purchase with LOT they will still be in possession of those funds. Were there any Air Canada tickets involved at all? If so you would have to provide AC with those numbers, if not LOT should be handling to conclusion as per airline protocol.

If you as still having problems with LOT, ensure you get a name and contact info for future reference.

Regards
Pat

At this point, I lost it; I've been pretty stressed with this whole process, so my patience was about at zero. My reply was, shall we say, less than courteous, but I think quite understandable given their responses:

Wow.

CAN you even read english? Am I speaking in a confusing foreign tongue? Did you take even 10 seconds to read my previous email? Who are you people? Air Canada obviously FAILS MISERABLY in the email customer service department. Good thing I sent in a complaint about the obvious blithering idiots they have answering emails for them. Let's try this ONE MORE TIME:

I BOUGHT THE TICKETS FROM AN AIR CANADA AGENT AT AN AIR CANADA COUNTER AT VANCOUVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IN RICHMOND, BC, CANADA. AIR CANADA CHARGED MY CREDIT CARD, AIR CANADA HAS MY MONEY, THE TICKETS SAY "AIR CANADA" ON THE OUTSIDE.

Here's a helpful hint for you: when your job is providing customer service via email, READ THE DAMN EMAILS YOU MORON.

You have been slow and totally unhelpful. Good thing I already got sick of you morons and called air canada directly to get the information I needed. Thanks for reducing my faith in the human race further.

Have a nice day.

Refund Services refundservices.remboursement@aircanada.ca
to me

Our employees are not expected to correspond with customers who do not
conduct themselves in a casual-business like manner. The choice of
language in your email exceeds the bounds of good taste and we will not
continue this transaction.
We invite you to resubmit your concern appropriately.

Regards,

Air Canada


To be frank, I was tempted to reply with "I invite you to go f*** yourself" but I managed to control myself. I was absolutely flabbergasted. It was like something out of a Monty Python sketch, except it was actually happening to me. I donno what you guys think, but to me this stinks of outsourcing. It's probably some chump in Dheli who can't even read english just blasting off incoherent emails in response to customer problems. Also, I should note, that the wait time between each totally useless reply was excessively long.

I will NEVER fly Air Canada again if I can possibly avoid it. Finally I called and spoke to someone on the phone who can speak english. They told me that since they sold us paper tickets, they can't refund them until we physically return the unused tickets to them, saying that the tickets "were like cash". The idea that in the second decade of the 21st century they can't simply cancel the tickets in the computer, rendering them invalid, and return our money is utterly absurd and beyond belief.

 

[Undertow]

I've got a real doozie for you guys...

Wow, in all my years working customer service, I must say that I've never seen such an unprofessional response. I understand both points of view (yours and theirs), but I have to say I find that in VERY poor taste on part of Air Canada. Their job is to serve you, period(.)

What should have happened:
1. A rep from Air Canada, preferably a manager, should have called you directly to get the full story.
2. They should have handeled the inquiry from that point forward rather than pushing you off to some other company. You shouldn't be expected to understand their technical abilities, or inabilities as is the case.
3. They should have followed up with you directly, by BOTH phone and email, when the issue was resolved. Period.
4. And personally, if I was the manager in charge of this inquiry, I would offer a discount on future tickets, or a further refund of, say, 10%. Something small, something to say, "Hey, we screwed up. We like you. Come back."

Problem is, they know they'll keep making money even if you never go back. It's a sad, sick world we live in where smarmy psychopaths count stacks of cold money and smoke big cigars made from baby seals. Just sayin'...

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Hi V. C. It's also likely that she has a huge Ivy League school loan. My son (a seventh year Junior, but working full time) said that Wichita State University had a 7% graduate hiring rate in 2009. I haven't bothered to look online, but that's the rate of kids graduating and getting a job within their major. I know of two boys who graduated from ABET accredited Engineering schools in 2009 and 2010, the 2010 grad was finally employed in late 2011, the 2009 grad is going back to school to become a pastor. A BSEE or BSME and a pulse used to be you at least 5-6 job offers, not anymore though.

As granddad used to say, student loans refuse to participate in a recession.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Meanwhile, according to a Boston Globe article this week, the average full-time manufacturing job pays over $92,000 a year if you can find one. That's gonna look pretty good to some of these philosophy majors after a few years at Dairy Queen.

 

[1961MJS]

...
Working as an academic, perhaps the most depressing thing in my professional world has been the slow evaporation of valuing education for its own sake as opposed to the nasty "will I get paid more if I have this qualification" cheapening of knowledge. In part I can't blame them - there are going to be a hell of a lot of kids graduating within the next ten years that may never be able to afford to buy their own home due to the level of debt their education will incur - so I can see why this focus happens, but it's soul destroying to see a society created where knowledge and learning are valued so little.

Hi Edward

I agree with you in principle, but not economically. I can afford to pay say $5,000 a year for a "worthless" liberal arts degree so that my offspring will be well-rounded etc. The problem here in the US, is that there are few if any Universities and/or Colleges that offer a degree program for $5,000 a year. My Mom's neighbors in Illinois are paying for two children to go to the University of Illinois, costing a little under $50,000 a year for both total. One is getting a Political Science degree, the other an Elementary Education Degree. They can afford it, but it's definitely NOT an investment. The daughter is pursuing an Elementary Ed. degree from what is usually ranked as the WORST education department in the State, but it costs the most. The other teachers will laugh at her (not kidding here).

I earned my degree in Engineering in the early 1980's. I found an old bill for my schooling $398.00 for the Semester or $800.00 a year. Now, 30 years later, it's $9.000 a semester, just the Student Activity fee is $850 (if memory serves). Neither number contains living expenses. The Education received certainly hasn't improved by a factor of 20. I don't believe that inflation has done that magic either. My entry level salary was $25,000, now the entry level Engineering Salary is $75.000 at most, or three times the entry level salary 30 years ago. Is there SOME explanation for the cost increases?

Seriously, it's just silly to attend a college where the cost is greater than your earning potential.

Meanwhile, according to a Boston Globe article this week, the average full-time manufacturing job pays over $92,000 a year if you can find one. That's gonna look pretty good to some of these philosophy majors after a few years at Dairy Queen.

It may not be that way now, but also back in the 1980's my aerospace company would not allow anyone with any degree to work in the manufacturing areas. For one thing, they would have had to give us Engineers a raise. I never found out it that changed, or if so, when.

Later

 

[Edward]

Seriously, it's just silly to attend a college where the cost is greater than your earning potential.

I absolutely understand the most people are put in the position of having to come to that conclusion.... my point is that a society which puts them in that position in the first place has something incredibly wrong with it. This is one of the few instances in which I do unequivocally despair of the modern world.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Wow, in all my years working customer service, I must say that I've never seen such an unprofessional response. I understand both points of view (yours and theirs), but I have to say I find that in VERY poor taste on part of Air Canada. Their job is to serve you, period(.)

What should have happened:
1. A rep from Air Canada, preferably a manager, should have called you directly to get the full story.
2. They should have handeled the inquiry from that point forward rather than pushing you off to some other company. You shouldn't be expected to understand their technical abilities, or inabilities as is the case.
3. They should have followed up with you directly, by BOTH phone and email, when the issue was resolved. Period.
4. And personally, if I was the manager in charge of this inquiry, I would offer a discount on future tickets, or a further refund of, say, 10%. Something small, something to say, "Hey, we screwed up. We like you. Come back."

Problem is, they know they'll keep making money even if you never go back. It's a sad, sick world we live in where smarmy psychopaths count stacks of cold money and smoke big cigars made from baby seals. Just sayin'...

I have the misfortune of also sometimes having to deal with them on a professional level too; they are almost always a huge pain in the butt. I've almost threatened to arrest one of their agents for obstructing me in my duties as a peace officer.

This little episode was just absolutely outrageous; it was inconceivable. The first response just blew me away for how utterly unprofessional and totally unhelpful it was. It was just baffling that anyone could craft such an idiotic response that totally ignored the content of my first email. Then for me to write back and, I think, very politely explain again that the tickets were issued by them and LOT had nothing to do with it and STILL have them not get it is just beyond belief.

I got another email from a different department about the situation which was at least professionally crafted and I replied to that one explaining the whole situation, so we'll see if they manage to completely blow it as well.

 

[sheeplady]

Gin&Tonics: In Canada do you have someone who is the equivalent of an Attorney General? In the U.S., we have an attorney general's office for each state. They can mediate disputes between a consumer and a company, like the one you have.

You can also report an organization to the Attorney General's office for consumer fraud, among a number of other things. In NY, they keep a database and once a threshold of complaints are reached, they investigate. They can shut a company down, fine them, or warn them. An investigation is *not a good thing* to have happen to an organization. Sometimes all you have to do is say that you've been in contact with the Attorney General's office and the organization "magically" figures the situation out.

I've dealt with the NYS Attorney General's office twice. They are some of the nicest people on the planet.

 

[sheeplady]

My son (a seventh year Junior, but working full time) said that Wichita State University had a 7% graduate hiring rate in 2009. I haven't bothered to look online, but that's the rate of kids graduating and getting a job within their major.

That is the worst tidbit of information I've read in a while about the economy. No wonder young people are so disillusioned.

 

[1961MJS]

That is the worst tidbit of information I've read in a while about the economy. No wonder young people are so disillusioned.

Hi, fortunately he's not TOO disillusioned, he's working at a bank and trying to finish out an accounting degree and eventually a CPA, but one of his fellow high school grads earned her Bachelor's in Psychology and is working as a bank teller.

I absolutely understand the most people are put in the position of having to come to that conclusion.... my point is that a society which puts them in that position in the first place has something incredibly wrong with it. This is one of the few instances in which I do unequivocally despair of the modern world.

We are agreeing in principle again. The Universities are charging what the market will bear without being forced to provide a useful quality product AT AN AFFORDABLE PRICE. A bank teller makes roughly $20,000 a year (my kid works at a bank and tellers make LESS than he does). If it costs more than $20,000 or possibly $40,000 to get a degree for that bank teller, then they're spending money that they shouldn't be.

I'd like to understand the current university pricing structure. Why is it necessary to spend 20 times what it cost to go to college 30 years ago, when the starting salary for the same job (Engineering) is only three times what it was 30 years ago?

Sorry that's off topic, but...

 

[sheeplady]

Hi, fortunately he's not TOO disillusioned, he's working at a bank and trying to finish out an accounting degree and eventually a CPA, but one of his fellow high school grads earned her Bachelor's in Psychology and is working as a bank teller.

Even when the economy is good, most psych majors don't find jobs in psychology. When I was an undergrad, it was basically known as the major that probably won't get you a job and the "easy" major that a lot of students took to skate through school. A lot of students take it because it's fun, or it helps them in a job in some other field. I'd never recommend a student do a single major in psychology in college, even if they want to become a psychologist. Double major in something you can get a job in right out of school.

I'd like to understand the current university pricing structure. Why is it necessary to spend 20 times what it cost to go to college 30 years ago, when the starting salary for the same job (Engineering) is only three times what it was 30 years ago?

Administrative costs for the most part. The top five people at any university (including the coaches for football and/or basketball) make more than $500,000 or $1 million a year. Faculty pay certainly hasn't increased 20 times.

 

[Edward]

I'd like to understand the current university pricing structure. Why is it necessary to spend 20 times what it cost to go to college 30 years ago, when the starting salary for the same job (Engineering) is only three times what it was 30 years ago?

Sorry that's off topic, but...

Not familiar with the set-up in the US, but over here it's a mix of things. Successive governments have pushed the tertiary education sector into a consumerist model, encouraging the development of "college as business", a culture which rewards those whose focus is on profiteering. A vile, vile pro-chancellor at my own alma mater closed down the Geology department (one of the top three in the UK) and the Classics department (a university without a classics department!) rather than invest in them, instead pumping money into engineering because that department attracted so many overseas students (a non-EU student requires identical resources but pays double the fees of a UK student). Successive governments demanded the "progress" of higher and higher proportions of kids getting to go to university, irrespective of how many hit the academic standard in any given year, while simultaneously using "increased demand" as an excuse to cut both students grants (which now no longer exist), and funding to the universities. As funding was cut, universities were allowed to charge fees in order to make up that shortfall. The latest move, last year, was the government passing legislation which allowed universities to treble the fee ceiling.... and then feigned surprise when everyone went for the max rather than ruin their brand by looking like the cheapo option.... All idiocy, all down to turning education into a profit-making exercise. As Uncle Oscar said - "....price of everything, value of nothing".

 

[LizzieMaine]

It strikes me that a lot of it is profiteering, plain and simple. If people feel that they *have to* have something, the purveyor of that something will jack the price up and up and up -- it's like the parasites who drive thru disaster areas with trucks full of water, selling it for ten dollars a bottle to all comers. It's like that with education today -- people don't make a rational decision to go to college, they're forced into it by the current system where we're brainwashed by the Boys From Academic Marketing into thinking that the guy who comes around to fix the copy machine needs to have at least a BA, and the gal who takes down the death notices at the local weekly needs a Masters in English. "If you don't go to college you can't get a job! Bachelors degree required for all applicants! You won't even get a job on a garbage truck -- they all have degrees in solid-waste management now!"

And yet industrial society functioned perfectly well for decades with only a tiny fraction of the population carrying post-secondary degrees. I wouldn't want anyone with less than a PhD designing moon rockets, but does the guy who fills the coffee machine in the base commissary also need a degree? Is that at all rational? Is the coffee any better?

 

[Shangas]

I hate that, Lizzie. I'm looking for work right now. I hold a Bachelor of Arts and Master of Arts. But I haven't managed to find anything. Right now, I'm looking at whatever I can find. Retail, professional, writing, editing, copywriting...damn everything I can find.

But these days every position seems to expect you to have something that you don't have. Even to work at a shop, they suggest, offer or even expect that you undergo some sort of retail course.

I've worked in shops before, behind the counter (and I still do as a volunteer). How hard can it be? I can handle transactions, I can bag goods, I can tidy shelves and set out stock. You don't need a piece of paper in a picture-frame to do that. And that's all that basic retail is.

As you quite rightly pointed out, everyone having or needing a university degree to find work is a pretty recent thing. Not that long ago, someone having a university degree was a very rare thing.

In MY family alone, apart from my current generation, very few people have university degrees.

My dad has a B.S., My mother has a...something...I forget what. And a few of my uncles and aunts...but that's it.

My uncle, now in his mid-seventies, never passed the 9th grade, but he managed to become a professional English teacher without the need for any university education, and remained one for damn near 50 years.

My grandmother never passed the sixth grade. She was a professional seamstress and dressmaker running her own, if I say so myself, moderately successful business for 30 years.

These days, they would expect you to have degrees and certificates and everything for something that really doesn't require it. And I'm thinking that this is making work even harder to find because expectations are so high.

I remember a story on the radio some years ago about a lady who went to an Asian country (I forget which), and became a kindergarten teacher or somesuch. She had a wonderful time and really loved her job. She came back to Australia and tried to set up another kindergarten and all the regulatory bodies CRASHED DOWN on her.

Why?

She didn't have any "qualitifications" to "look after children".

Help grandparents. Since when the hell did they need a slip of paper that proves them to be competent child-minders?

The lady said in an interview, how stupid it was. In other countries, all you need is the PASSION and the DESIRE to do something and do it right, whereas over here, you need a whole heap of bloody paperwork before you can even start.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

It strikes me that a lot of it is profiteering, plain and simple. If people feel that they *have to* have something, the purveyor of that something will jack the price up and up and up -- it's like the parasites who drive thru disaster areas with trucks full of water, selling it for ten dollars a bottle to all comers. It's like that with education today -- people don't make a rational decision to go to college, they're forced into it by the current system where we're brainwashed by the Boys From Academic Marketing into thinking that the guy who comes around to fix the copy machine needs to have at least a BA, and the gal who takes down the death notices at the local weekly needs a Masters in English. "If you don't go to college you can't get a job! Bachelors degree required for all applicants! You won't even get a job on a garbage truck -- they all have degrees in solid-waste management now!"

And yet industrial society functioned perfectly well for decades with only a tiny fraction of the population carrying post-secondary degrees. I wouldn't want anyone with less than a PhD designing moon rockets, but does the guy who fills the coffee machine in the base commissary also need a degree? Is that at all rational? Is the coffee any better?

The saddest part is that a while back I read about a particular college that hiked up tuition -- nothing surprising there. The suprising part was that enrollment at this college INCREASED after the tuition hike! :doh:

 

[LizzieMaine]

If you can swindle someone out of a dime, you can swindle them out of a dollar.

 

[Shangas]

The saddest part is that a while back I read about a particular college that hiked up tuition -- nothing surprising there. The suprising part was that enrollment at this college INCREASED after the tuition hike!

It's often assumed, as I'm sure everyone knows, that if something costs more, it's automatically of better quality. This, as I'm also sure everyone knows (or at least, everyone on this forum) isn't true. It's how they trap the stupid and gullible into throwing away their money.