Crofut & Knapp Tales

[Philip K Nelson]

I read an article that indicated C&K moved its manufacturing operations to Tennessee - do you know anything about that?

Brad has the details to a "T". It was a nasty strike but nowhere near the one in 1885 that ended in the dynamiting of factory #2. I was living in Philadelphia in 1953-54 at the time, during my residency training, and my family kept me informed. The basic problem was that people weren't wearing the kind of hats C&K made. My grandfather, Phili Knapp, during his tenure used to have men hired to count the men's hats in Times Square- sort of a sampling of the population- this had been going on for years and the numbers just got worse and worse. Phil Knapp died in 1945 and was spared seeing the demise of the family venture.
Phil K Nelson

 

[Brad Bowers]

Brad has the details to a "T". It was a nasty strike but nowhere near the one in 1885 that ended in the dynamiting of factory #2. I was living in Philadelphia in 1953-54 at the time, during my residency training, and my family kept me informed. The basic problem was that people weren't wearing the kind of hats C&K made. My grandfather, Phili Knapp, during his tenure used to have men hired to count the men's hats in Times Square- sort of a sampling of the population- this had been going on for years and the numbers just got worse and worse. Phil Knapp died in 1945 and was spared seeing the demise of the family venture.
Phil K Nelson

Fascinating story about your grandfather, and very indicative of the way the old-time businessmen used to be, and the way they ran their businesses. Wish we still had conscientious corporate men today.

John Cavanagh did live to see the end of C&K as he and your grandfather knew it, with the acquistion by the Saleskys, and I'm sure he probably wasn't too happy about it.

I will say this to the Salesky's credit: they did everything they could to keep HCA in business, outlasting Stetson by a year. They did manage to turn HCA into the largest hat business in America, but in the end, it didn't matter. Just too late.

Okay, now I'm all depressed. Gotta cheer up before I face my students in a few minutes.

Brad

 

[barrowjh]

Winchester

OK, that helps a bunch. I suspected that the Winchester hat company of today, owned by Stratton, might be the remnants of the operation that C&K moved to Tennessee. Strictly a felting operation now, and we have a nice sticky regarding it, fascinating to watch the operation. That might account for why I was able to find a C&K hat box that looks 1950+ in Tennessee - they might have had a factory 'outlet' there for a short time.

 

[Philip K Nelson]

This about the limit on my info regarding JHK; after all he died in 1913, fifteen years before I was born. But my gram saved clippings and photos. James became her responsibility when his wife died, and she Mary Lydia (Pattison) Knapp was cowed by him; I know of no one else that she feared. Much of what I know about JHK I learned from her, from Grandpa (Phil Knapp) and my mother, Esther Knapp Nelson.
P K Nelson

I ssem to be having trouble with image size- anyone unable to read these may contact me at pakanelson@comcast.com and I will send you a larger version.

 

[billyspew]

This about the limit on my info regarding JHK; after all he died in 1913, fifteen years before I was born. But my gram saved clippings and photos. James became her responsibility when his wife died, and she Mary Lydia (Pattison) Knapp was cowed by him; I know of no one else that she feared. Much of what I know about JHK I learned from her, from Grandpa (Phil Knapp) and my mother, Esther Knapp Nelson.
P K Nelson

I ssem to be having trouble with image size- anyone unable to read these may contact me at pakanelson@comcast.com and I will send you a larger version.

Here's the larger version, very interesting article - thanks for sharing!

 

[Brad Bowers]

Interesting that the obituary neglects to mention the Derby.

Thanks for posting these.

Brad

 

[Garrett]

Thanks for posting this!

 

[Brad Bowers]

OK, that helps a bunch. I suspected that the Winchester hat company of today, owned by Stratton, might be the remnants of the operation that C&K moved to Tennessee. Strictly a felting operation now, and we have a nice sticky regarding it, fascinating to watch the operation. That might account for why I was able to find a C&K hat box that looks 1950+ in Tennessee - they might have had a factory 'outlet' there for a short time.

I get a kick out of knowing my felt comes from the last vestiges of the once-great C&K empire. I'd love to see photos of the hat box, if you took any.

Brad

 

[Philip K Nelson]

Knapp-Kunhardt connection

Okay, this is getting away from hats and to my other love- Genealogy. James Knapp's daughter, Martha, married George Kuhnhardt of West Andover, MA. Her son was Philip Kuhnhardt Sr... Philip Kuhnhardt II,III and Peter are direct descendants and well known authors and TV Producers.

 

[Michaelshane]

This is great fun....I have two C&K hats,my blue one is very special to me.

 

[barrowjh]

C&K Box, 'late' vintage

Brad, you asked:

Talk about a slow Saturday night . . .

 

[buler]

I have a box just waiting for a great C&K hat....

B

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Oooohhhhhhh mmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyy, Buler

Nuff said

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks for posting the photos of the box, John. I hadn't seen one that late, so it's nice to see what they offered toward the end.

And then buler posts a wonderful early box. Nice bookends, guys!

Brad

 

[billysmom]

Oooohhhhhhh mmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyy, Buler

Nuff said

:arated:

What he said!

Sue

 

[cookie]

Brad's C&K thread

I am loving this thread BTW...thanks to Mr Nelson for the charming anecdotes of another America...

 

[barrowjh]

Thank You

Brad, thank you for the historical work you have put together; I enjoy reading it. The colors are saturated in the low incandescent light; in sunlight they are a bit more 'washed out' so the box looks undeservedly great in these photos.

 

[Michaelshane]

buler....I need that box.

[/IMG]

 

[Philip K Nelson]

A Special Order Hat

This picture of Phil Knapp, holding his first grandson, my older brother George Peter (Pete) Nelson, Jr. was taken in April 1925. Perched on Pete's head (he was three months old) is a baby size derby hat made by C&K. The hat was made in 1905. You will notice that it is six inches long and has a gromet hole on each side- intended for an elastic cord to go under the chin. The pictured hat is the original. No labels inside but Pete had it, and occasionally wore it all his life. Pete had a derby that he bought while working in Toronto- I'm not sure what brand. his widow, Mary Lou, kindly loaned me the hat for a photo.
Phil Nelson

 

[Chiliarches]

This picture of Phil Knapp, holding his first grandson, my older brother George Peter (Pete) Nelson, Jr. was taken in April 1925. Perched on Pete's head (he was three months old) is a baby size derby hat made by C&K. The hat was made in 1905. You will notice that it is six inches long and has a gromet hole on each side- intended for an elastic cord to go under the chin. The pictured hat is the original. No labels inside but Pete had it, and occasionally wore it all his life. Pete had a derby that he bought while working in Toronto- I'm not sure what brand. his widow, Mary Lou, kindly loaned me the hat for a photo.
Phil Nelson

Now that is really neat...this thread is great! Thank you for sharing.