Crofut & Knapp Tales

[Philip K Nelson]

JFK Initials

There were a lot of JFK's before our president- my aunt Julie Ferry Knapp, for one but she never had a derby.
Philip K Nelson

 

[Dreispitz]

There were a lot of JFK's before our president- my aunt Julie Ferry Knapp, for one but she never had a derby.
Philip K Nelson

Nice to have you back on the forum! Do you have any records on ladie´s hats made by C&K?

 

[Philip K Nelson]

Lady's Hats at C&K

Well I remember seeing some; mostly I remember hat blocks of lady's hats that grandpa Phil Knapp had trucked over to his home in big wooden barrrels and stored in the basement for fireplace wood. He died in 1945 and my Mom, brother Pete and I lived with him, in his beautiful home, throughout WWII. Fuel Oil shortages resulted in many people relying on fireplaces for warmth and even cooking. Phil Knapp had access to all the used, out-of-date, wooden blocks used to form the hat body and the brim- two separate forms. They were made of high quality dense wood and burned forever. These lady's hat were of felt, and definitely modern (for the 40's). I remember some crowns that looked the Museum of Modern Art in NY. The brims for men's hats looked like toilet seats, but the lady's would slope or perhaps, taper. It was definitely a major line at C&K
Phil Nelson

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Burned for firewood????!!!

War is hell!!!

 

[Brad Bowers]

That's a sad story, Phil, but what's sadder is that's not the first time of heard of old hat blocks being used for firewood back then. I guess you use what you have when you need it. Still, I hate to think about all that's been lost over the years.

Brad

 

[Philip K Nelson]

More about the history of C&K

Well, I keep thinking I'm running out of source material and I find more. These four pages are from "Norwalk-Being an historical account of that Connecticut town" published in 1979 by the Norwalk Historical Society- authored by Deborah Wing Ray and Gloria P. Stewart. I am attaching four pages in which hatting is pretty well covered (though it begins and ends with other industries). A lot can be gleaned or inferred by reading these four numbered pages.

The original C&K facory is shown; I have never seen this photo any place else. But this is where James Knapp and Andrew Crofut dreamed dreams and where John Stetson apprenticed. The reader will note references to other hat factories but it is pretty clear that C&K eventually ended up the winner; they were great innovators and had the latest and best equipment - hydraulic presses and felting machines.

There were a lot of small hatting business in early Connecticut; James learned the trade in Litchfield before moving to Norwalk.

I see what may be the source of my great-grandfather being called James Henry Knapp; that's what got me started with the Fedora Lounge in the first place. His middle name was Howard as was the name of his first born son. Phil Knapp was second and James Hoyt Knapp third. A daughter, Martha married George Kunhardt and from that branch came the famous Philip B Kunhardt and his sons who wrote of Lincoln and all of the US Presidents. By the way there are probably some JFK's in that group.

I see the photo of the Derby was from the Lockwood House Museum in Norwalk. Whether it was a photo or not I can't say but it would be interesting if they do have an actual C&K Derby there.

Hope you find this of interest
Philip Knapp Nelson

 

[Brad Bowers]

Well, I keep thinking I'm running out of source material and I find more.

I, for one, hope you don't run out of source material. I'm enjoying the history.

Brad

 

[Philip K Nelson]

Phil Knapp's Other Job

Since I am on a roll here I wanted to post the attached for Brad. He has been extremely helpful in teaching me how to navigate this site and I know he is a big C&K fan.

Phil Knapp had hatting in his blood; but he also had golf. He and a group of investors bought a beautiful land site right near Long Island Sound and commissioned a golf course there. John Cavanagh and William Lybrand, among others were in on the original purchase. William Lybrand was a close friend of Phil's and was the founder of Lybrand, Ross & Montgomery.

Phil and John Cavanagh built homes right next to the course. Grandpas house was on the ridge above the 3rd fairway called Pine Hill at the intersection of Sycamore St and Pine Hill Ave; John Kavanagh built his home on Old Saugatuck Road overlooking the 10th hole. Both houses were built as the course came into reality. Grandpas home is still there but I think John Cavanagh's was replaced by a newer residence.

Grandpa was Shorehaven's first president and from what I heard and remember he was a hands on type of guy. My brother Pete and I often hopped in the rumble seat of his Buick roadster and road along as he toured the course, checking for trouble spots.

My mother told me that once, during a big soiree, he had personally ejected Paul Whiteman, the band leader, for ungentlemanly behavior!

Well, five years after the 1924 opening they threw a big bash to honor him. I have the program which is illustrated here; the members all chipped in and bought him a handsome sterling silver vase that stands 15" tall. I have that too. It was always at the entry at Pine Hill with some long stemed flowers inside.

A few years ago I thought that it might be a nice idea to gift it to Shorehaven Golf Club where it might be displayed or even used as "The President's Trophy". I don't know what the problem was (or is) but I got the cold shoulder to both phone and written offers. Maybe someone in Norwalk can intercede.

This is not hatting but it is C&K. I really think this is my swan song - I've nothing left, but I'd be happy to reflect with you at any time on the good old days.
Philip Knapp Nelson

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks for posting this, and all of your posts, Phil. I know we really appreciate your efforts to preserve your family's history and your willingness to share it with us.

I can't imagine why Shorehaven wasn't interested in your offer, as that would have been a great home for it.

I'd be interested in hearing your remembrances of the C&K factory sometime. I've seen a few photos, but that's no substitute for the experience of actually stepping foot inside.

Thanks again,

Brad

 

[buler]

Yes, thanks so much for sharing this history/information. I'm sure there are many of us who love seeing updates to this thread.

B

 

[feltfan]

Yes, thanks so much for sharing this history/information. I'm sure there are many of us who love seeing updates to this thread.

To say nothing of updates to buler's avatar...

But seriously, Philip K. Nelson, if you never posted again you will have
contributed some of the most memorable posts on this site. Crofut & Knapp
hats were something special and we very much appreciate how you've
indulged us!

 

[rlk]

Hat of the Month 1929-30 ads

I've only found 8 and some were shown in other threads.

 

[Lefty]

 

[m000m000]

Really love those color hat of the month ads, wish I could get my hands on some of them :V.

 

[Brad Bowers]

So far, so good, rlk. You've got over half of them! You've even got four of the six that I'm missing.

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Sorry for all the cross postings...

I won this tonight, my second Crofut & Knapp hat, and my first top hat:

Kanpp-Felt Top Hat

Looks to be in okay shape, other than the brim binding. From the few auction photos, it looks like it might be pre-1900, but I'll know more when I get my hands on it. The sweat leather looks more like a 19th century style, but maybe circa 1900 and they used a different textured leather for their toppers than for their derbies. Too bad it's not my size.

I find it interesting that both of my Knapp-Felt hats are made from Clear Argentine Nutria, though one's a derby.

I'll post it here for review once it comes in.

Brad

 

[barrowjh]

I have really enjoyed the history - hope you find more source material (or remember more) - thanks for making the effort!!!

 

[Brad Bowers]

Received my Knapp-Felt top hat over the weekend. The plush is in really good shape for its age, with very little noticeable wear. That's good, because that's the hardest thing to repair. The brim binding is in sad shape. The leather sweatband is still in good shape, but the thread holding it in the hat has just about rotted away. The silk on the underside of the brim is a bit faded, but no one really sees that part of it. I had no idea what size the hat was when I bought it, but that didn't matter. I suspect it's a 7 3/8 Extra Long Oval, though, because it has room at the front and back on my head, but the sides really pinch.lol Six-inch crown.

The seller sent me some history of the gentleman who wore it. He was born in 1892 or thereabouts, served in the army in WWI, and then worked the rest of his life on the railroad as an train engineer. She also sent me his white gloves which he wore with the top hat, but I forgot to take a photo of them. The sweatband led me to think that perhaps the hat was a late-19th century hat, but that doesn't fit with the timeline. I have to admit that I don't know enough to date C&K top hats with anything resembling accuracy, though.

Clear Argentine Nutria, just like my Derby.

It was retailed at Maurice L. Rothschild in Chicago. The only tag inside the sweatband I've found is a partial paper tag with the Rotschild's logo, nothing else from C&K.

Pay no attention to the goofball with the crooked tie. Just got off work... Too bad the auto-timer and auto-focus don't work in sync with each other.

No, I didn't wear the hat to work. Wore my grey Cavanagh.

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

No, I didn't wear the hat to work. Wore my grey Cavanagh.

Brad

What a find! It is always a pleasure to see these messengers of the past revived!

 

[besdor]

Brad, the style of the top hat leads me to believe that it is from around 1930. However the lining looks older.
C&K hats are some of the hardest to find.


Steven
www.bencrafthats.com