Crofut & Knapp Tales

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks, Steven. I don't know enough about top hats to know the stylistic differences. It does look a lot like a 1930 C&K Anderson ad I have that features a couple of top hats. I agree, though, that the inside looks older. I just don't know for sure.

Brad

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Finally managed to get some pics of me wearing my excellent Knapp-Felt bowler.

 

[cookie]

CROFUT & KNAPP FEDORA MILAN HAT 7 1/2

Thought this one that sold ought to go here. A very nice Milan...pity I don't wear stingy Optimo semi calados! Enjoy

 

[Lefty]

1923

1927

 

[Brad Bowers]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Thanks for the "new" early ads!

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Here's another one, this one from the September 11, 1926 issue of The New Yorker. It's similar to the ads above. All of the above appear to be by the same artist as this one, Percy Edward Anderson, the illustrator of our favorite Knapp-Felt full-color ads from 1929 and 1930.

Brad

 

[barrowjh]

Correction to #43

I cannot edit it now, but one of my previous posts here (#43) is in error. Per discussions with Greg Fiske of Winchester Hat Co during our plant tour on Friday March 19th 2010 - the Winchester plant had no tie-in, no connection to C&K. The Winchester plant was built new in 1967, and a hat finishing operation was close by in Cowan, TN (also new at the time, now a Shaw flooring operation). There was a photograph on the wall of the original plant - it was LaSalle Hat factory originally!

Greg made an interesting comment - the Winchester plant turned out hat bodies with Cav edges by the dozens - but the machinery that facilitated that sort of detail, and the employees that performed that type of work, all long gone from there as a result of the decline in hat-wearing during recent decades.

Edited to incorporate corrections per the two posts following (thanks Brad and Tom!). correct me again if it still isn't right-

 

[Brad Bowers]

I appreciate it, John, I knew what you meant. I wish I could have been there for the tour.

I'll have to correct Greg one of these days. He's confusing Hat Corporation of America with today's Hatco. The only connection between the two is that Hatco owns the old brands of Hat Corporation of America. The two companies have no other relationship to each other, no other corporate lineage to connect them.

There never was a connection between today's Hatco and Winchester.

They DID have a tie-in with C&K, as C&K was the original name of Hat Corporation of America, and I'm sure Winchester produced C&K hats during the '50s and '60s.

They still have some of the equipment at Winchester to produce Cavanagh Edges, as Richard Beene made those examples for me a few years back. He still had the shackles, but I don't know about the hot water table.

Brad

 

[gtdean48]

Greg showed us the Cav edge machine that was in really bad shape, parts missing & such. He said Winchester was built in 1967, so no hats from there in the 1950s...

 

[barrowjh]

More Help!

Thanks Brad, and as I edited my new post just now, I remembered that there was a picture on the wall of the plant - originally titled as LaSalle! LaSalle owned Champ, and Champ eventually became part of Hat Corporation of America. So, can your research place this on a time-line where this makes sense - a LaSalle factory built in Winchester in 1967, was LaSalle already a part of Hat Corporation at that time, etc?

 

[Brad Bowers]

I was lumping the Winchester finishing plant, which was around in the '50s, in with the Winchester felting plant, as part of the whole of Winchester operations.

I didn't think the felting plant opened that late, I thought it was earlier in the decade. Interesting.

So, did anyone take a photo of the Cavanagh Edge machine? What did it look like? Was it just to make the "sizing," or shrinking, more accurate?

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks Brad, and as I edited my new post just now, I remembered that there was a picture on the wall of the plant - originally titled as LaSalle! LaSalle owned Champ, and Champ eventually became part of Hat Corporation of America. So, can your research place this on a time-line where this makes sense - a LaSalle factory built in Winchester in 1967, was LaSalle already a part of Hat Corporation at that time, etc?

The Saleskys, owners/founders of LaSalle/Champ, gained control of Hat Corporation of America in 1956, and then merged Champ into Hat Corporation of America. I remember you mentioned that picture last year, and it's intrigued me, as the parent company was always HCA, as far as I can tell, and not LaSalle. But I sense the Salesky's handiwork here!

Brad

 

[gtdean48]

Understand & Greg didn't go into any details except to point out the finishing plan was now the Shaw carpet facility.
I didn't see anybody photo it but it looked like a sewing machine with an attachment that had a small ironing board appendage.
Maybe JB can describe it better. HTH.

I was lumping the Winchester finishing plant, which was around in the '50s, in with the Winchester felting plant, as part of the whole of Winchester operations.

I didn't think the felting plant opened that late, I thought it was earlier in the decade. Interesting.

So, did anyone take a photo of the Cavanagh Edge machine? What did it look like? Was it just to make the "sizing," or shrinking, more accurate?

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Aha, I now remember when I was talking to Richard a few years back that they still had a sewing machine to sew the initial welts!

Here is what I have on the history of HCA operations in Winchester, TN:

1950-1951:
Construction of a plant to manufacture lower-priced straw hats and movement of some jobs from Norwalk to Winchester.

1953-1954:
HCA announces the removal of the rest of the straw hat jobs from Norwalk to Winchester, as well as the construction of felt finishing plant "west of the Mississippi." This prompts a 10-month strike at Norwalk, which doesn't end well for the union.

1954-1956:
Construction of a felt hat finishing plant at Nevada, Missouri. As soon as the plant workers organize under the union in 1956, the plant is closed down.

Circa 1956:
Felt hat finishing moves to Winchester.

1962:
HCA announces the construction will soon start on a 200,000 square-foot factory in Winchester. If they opened in 1967, then there was some delay in construction.

1972:
HCA brands are sold to Koracorp in Garland, TX. Winchester plant is not included in the deal.

That's all I've got.

Brad

 

[barrowjh]

I cannot add much on the machine - it was so incomplete, Greg merely stated that was all that was left from that heyday. They were not proud of the felted-edge attempts they had made recently (apparently for you, Brad), and pointed out that in the day, the equipment allowed for different widths of the welting - contributing to different looking felted edges (not talking about width of brim). He indicated that with all of those attachments missing it was impossible to replicate the felted edges.

HarPlayerGene saw the picture with LaSalle painted on the side of the building, and I remember he asked Greg some questions, wondering if a LaSalle that he owned could have been made in Winchester.

Brad - your history just posted does pose some questions, and since your history is based on actual public announcements (probably backed up by public records), then maybe your information is more reliable. It would be nice to have a meeting of the minds between you and Greg, to try and get the story right.

The felting operation there can still make straws - Art told us that he watched them make a couple for him (a client request) during the Thursday before we gathered that evening; he was tickled that he got to observe it being sewn together.

 

[Brad Bowers]

There are quite a few gaps in my history that I'm trying to fill in. As May 1956, much of the finishing equipment at Nevada had been transferred to Winchester, so they had at least a partial finishing facility at that time. I have no idea if the Cowan facility is the same one or not. This is the first time I've heard of Cowan. Apparently all of the finishing operations moved from Norwalk to Winchester in 1960. The Norwalk factory closed in 1970, and from 1970 to 1972, Winchester appears to be the sole source of HCA brand hats.

I'd love to visit the Winchester plant, and perhaps the next time I drive back to Missouri to visit my wife's family, I can take a few extra days to go to TN. Just to see and feel the welting machine...

That's great about the straws! I had no idea they still did that. Is it mostly used for Stratton trooper hats?

Brad

 

[barrowjh]

Not sure about that - there is a separate plant somewhere that does straws, but not sure if they just do some sort of finishing or whether they do the body also. There was a bin full of some sort of braided straw strips, and I am not sure if that was what they use to put the straw hat together (some Milan version?). Art should be able to fill you in on the details regarding the straw.

You know, with the problems that naturally result from people trying to remember what they heard as stories from the 1950s-60s were passed along, it might take a day of researching property tax records at the county courthouse there to actually get this history straightened out! Those records might clarify and describe a series of buildings constructed, additions thereon, et cet.

The mystery draws me in; if we had the whole story, then it would suddenly be boring!

 

[rlk]

C & K Derby

About a Size 6-7/8 in OK- condition and very nice soft sweatband. Cardboard backed center portion of liner, glued at one time. No size or factory tag but an NRA Code tag. Original owner was apparently an early Indy fan.

 

[Brad Bowers]

1910s Derby

C&K 1910 Derby

Been meaning to post this one for a while. I bought it hoping it might be a pre-1906 Derby, since it doesn’t say “Knapp-Felt,” but after further research I’ve determined it’s 1910 to perhaps 1920. It’s not in the greatest shape.

The logo is unusual, featuring the signs of the zodiac in the medallions. It’s possible this logo was designed to be used with store names, since the Levy label is separate but designed to position directly below the C&K logo.

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Advetising postcard for C&K Associates to send out to customers:

Brad