Cowboy hats - opinions?

[MattJH]

Can I suggest you get out more without offending you? travel as much as you can out west and you just might alter your opinion

Haha. No offense taken! The truth of the matter is that I'm a city guy through and through and I have no interest in visiting rural farms, communities, or anything south of Washington D.C. or west of Philadelphia. I have no ties to it; no family, no carnal instinct to visit, no thirst or wanderlust, etc.

"Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!" I know, I know. But I'm not knocking it, necessarily, I just know it isn't for me. A lot of these responses increased my knowledge base significantly, though -- I very honestly thought that there were absolutely no cowboys left whatsoever. But in the end, the farther away I get from Philadelphia and the surrounding northeastern megalopolis, the more I feel like an out-of-place foreigner. I just don't belong outside of here. A rest stop off I95 in South Carolina may as well be one of Saturn's moons, you know?

Worthy of mention: My wife and I will be visiting Germany towards the end of the year. It'll be my first trip to Europe. While I do not have an interest in exploring the United States, I do have an interest in exploring other countries. I can't explain why. It may be a geneology thing.

 

[vonwotan]

Have you ever made your way down to Chester County and horse country? You'll find a few cowboy hats a short trip from you right there in PA.

 

[John in Covina]

Have you ever made your way down to Chester County and horse country? You'll find a few cowboy hats a short trip from you right there in PA.

******
The best thing for the inside of a man is the outside of a horse.
Lord Palnerstone

 

[DeeDub]

A few tidbits to offer...

The topic's been pretty well debated by now. Since I have some cowboy heritage, I thought I ought to offer a few items for general interest.

And while not specifically mentioned, cowboys never got into squirmishes with Indians...that's just popular myth. The Union Army had more conflict with Native Americans than any ranch cowboy had.

This is true, but I'd add that the Union Army was also kept quite busy by white settlers who were routinely violating treaties with the Indians. Generations of my family have been in the town of El Reno, OK. Said town sprung up near Fort Reno, named after the Civil War hero John L. Reno. Fort Reno was set up in the Indian Territory, not to control the Indians who had been brought there from around the country, but to enforce the Indian Territory boundary from encroachment by settlers.

Regarding the style of the cowboy hat:

Some of my relatives participate in living history re-enactments of life on the frontier. I don't recall any of them wearing the type of cowboy hat described earlier in this thread, i.e., three dents and brim turned up at the sides. They might wear such a hat around town any other time, but not for the historical activities. I don't recall any family photos from the late 19th and early 20th centuries with such a hat, either. I have always assumed that is a modern style hat, not one worn by our ancestors.

Regarding the cowboy hat as modern wear:

I think this was already said earlier, so I'll simply agree that whether a hat (or other clothing or hair style) looks normal in a particular time or place is a function of the local fashion. Even in San Francisco, where variety is the norm, cowboy hats aren't all that common. But they're commonplace in El Reno. I personally prefer Tom Mix's wide-brim hat or my great-grandfather's derby, which I do wear on occasion. I would wear a modern cowboy hat in Oklahoma, but not likely in San Francisco.

Regarding the existence of cowboys and the open range:

I won't bring up Oklahoma again, since that's already been mentioned. I will add that my wife's family still raises cattle on the Big Island. Her uncle is still a working cowboy in Kohala and his brother still handcrafts saddles at Parker Ranch. (We were surprised to see him featured in an in-flight movie on Hawaiian Airlines.)

 

[Haversack]

Regarding western hats in San Francisco: A couple of times and places in which one might see such hats are during the week of the Grand Nationals held out at the Cow Palace. Also, on a weekend in the Mission District, western straw hats are often seen on older Hispanic men who are dressed up for church or strolling on a paseo.

Also, one of San Francisco's more colourful mayors was noted for wearing highly-polished cowboy boots with morning dress as his everyday clothes. After he was elected Governor in 1930, James, "Sunny Jim", Rolph complained that he finally had to buy his first pair of shoes.

Haversack.

 

[Pilgrim]

A cowboy hat brings up a specific profession; one that is, for all intents and purposes, dead. If I'm incorrect, definitely educate me! My presumptions may be based on my own misinformation.

Speaking as one who has lived his whole life in the West, and 25 years of it either in Texas or Colorado, I can ASSURE you that "cowboy" is not anything like an extinct profession.

The western US is full of people who own and operate ranches, and to varying degrees (up to and including living most of their life on the range) operate as cowboys.

You can really have no idea how true this is without visiting the west, and especially the large ranches that still remain in Texas. The Y.O. and King ranches are big enough to make up some eastern states! (The King Ranch is larger than Rhode Island, taking up part of six Texas counties, and having its own town: Kingsville.)
Please check the links on the ranch names and read about their history.

And BTW, the Y.O. Ranch is a wonderful tourist destination! They have visitors and tourists all year 'round. Having lived in Texas, I can assure you that it is well worth visiting.

But all across the west in Colorado, Wyoming, Montaa, California, Nevada, and the Desert Southwest there are operating ranches. On every one of them, you'll find good western hats - worn and battered western hats - and a culture that is unlike most of the eastern US (from what I've heard).

The western hats you see now are an evolution of more than 100 years following the Boss of the Plains, just as other fashions and tools have evolved. There's nothing odd or extinct about them.

And you would probably enjoy traveling the west to get a feel for this part of American culture. If you want to see where a western hat makes you feell like part of the majority, come enjoy Cheyenne Frontier Days or the Greeley Stampede. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Bud-n-Texas]

Pilgrim you make many valid points. When I lived on the High Plains, east of Denver one of the many highlights was the National Western stock Show and Rodeo. There is such diversity to be seen there. Not all cowboys dress the same, and this can be witnessed there. You can see regional differences in the crown creases and brim widths. Types of boots as well as pants. The boys from Montana tend to wear their pants tucked inside their boots ( why I do not know), they also tend to gravitate to the Tom Mix crease or some variation there of. Books have been written about these nuances, and far be it from me to attempt to cover more than just a fraction of them.

 

[WH1]

Why tuck pants in boots?

I grew up in the cowboy and buckeroo culture of eastern oregon. I only quit rodeoing a few years ago, my wife was tired of trips to the ER and I found at age 40 I didn't bounce anymore. I still breed and train my own quarter horses. Now that I have established my bonafides on to the answer for why some cowboys wear pants tucked in boots. A lot of us wear Chinks (not a racial thing short for spanish chinqadero (sp?) instead of chaps, they only come to below the knee so the wranglers/pants are tucked in the boots to keep them from getting torn. The chinks are more comfortable in the summer months than traditional shotgun or batwing chaps as they let air circulate easily. Also if you are getting on or off horse regularly they are more comfortable. Hope the information helps. Also there are still some of the big range outfits operating in Oregon, Nevada and Idaho particularly the ZX.

 

[GentlemanFarmer]

Thanks WH1 for the explainationon on chinks. I wore shotguns working during summer breaks back in Texas in the 70's. They were hot to wear. I plan on working horseback after I retire from medicine. I think I'll give chinks a whirl this time.

 

[WH1]

Most still use chaps either batwing or shotgun in winter for warmth, but the chinks are more comfortable but still protect the upper leg from rope burns or when flanking calves in the pens.

The interesting thing about this thread is that it started with an easterner questioning the value of the traditional cowboy hat. In the great basin region nevada, southeast oregon, and idaho some of the buckeroos wear a fedora. They also use a flat crowned broad brimmed hat you won't see much anywhere else. Funny the regional differences in dress and equipment you see among the cowboy culture. I recently moved east of the Mississippi for the first time and it is interesting getting to know the horsemen, their clothing, horse gear and traditions. You have some very good horsemen in the pennsylvania region as I understand.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Welcome to the Lounge WH1, it's good to have more diverse outlooks and experiences here. I know what you mean about the regional differences. My new friend asked me to build him an "Eastern Oregon" hat (flat crowned, flat brim) and all I could to was put a blank look on my face. He realized I had no clue what he was talking about and walked me through the look.
Fun stuff!!

 

[Haversack]

"Flat Crown, flat brim" Art, that sounds a lot like the Clearwater Hats "John Bull" that you reblocked for me when I first visited your shop in Rodeo. If I remember right, you used a top hat block to reset the crown.

Haversack.

 

[WH1]

flat crown/flat brim

thanks for the welcome Art.

Are you a hat maker? Do you know Rodney Allison, North Valley Hats in Salem? His website http://www.northvalleyhatco.com/.
He is an old friend from the rodeo days, makes a very nice custom hat. His site has some good pics of the classic flat crown/flat brim.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Yes I do WH1, he's a good man and great hatter. I've bought equipment and ribbons from him over the years and yes, I am a retired masonry contractor turned hat maker. As a secondary business my wife and I owned a vintage clothing store for 20 yrs so my roots are based in fedora history and styles. Westerns are foreign territory for me and expect to leave that side to my friends that know more like Rodney, John Morse, Kathy Sturm ( Sturm Custom Hats, Grants Pass), Jim Whitington ( JW Hats Salt Lake), good hatters all. I'm only trying to learn to please my friend/rancher here and help my neighbors with their hat needs. He knows my limitations and is willing to work with me.))
BTW, Rodney is a member here also

 

[Art Fawcett]

Could have been Haversack!! I wish I could say I remember but that wouldn't be truthful. So many hats, so little grey matter

 

[Stinchcomb]

Well, I for one think a cowboy hat is attractive, functional, and can be some what dressy. I own several modern style but don’t wear them too much due to the fact the stiff wide brim is cumbersome unless your on the open plain. I used to do Cowboy Action Shooting and yes we were a bunch of grown ups playing dress up. Dressing up was more fun than the shooting part. I have to say that a cowboy hat can at times be quite a lady magnet.

When I think of the “open road” style though I always see the image of Sheriff Buford T. Justis from Smokey and The Bandit.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

That hat site is interesting.

Is it my imagination, or do those Buckaroo-T hats remind me of some Zoot hats I have seen?

karol

 

[tonyb]

As a secondary business my wife and I owned a vintage clothing store for 20 yrs so my roots are based in fedora history and styles. Westerns are foreign territory for me and expect to leave that side to my friends that know more like Rodney, John Morse, Kathy Sturm ( Sturm Custom Hats, Grants Pass), Jim Whitington ( JW Hats Salt Lake), good hatters all.

So Art, do you suppose it's safe to say that custom Western (aka cowboy) hat makers outnumber their custom fedora-making brethren?
Sure seems that way. And when I see what some Western wear fanciers are willing to spend on their duds (boots and hats in particular), it becomes clear why a guy might be drawn to that side of the business.

 

[Art Fawcett]

That's a very safe statement Tony. The western hat business FAR outnumbers the dress hat makers and contrary to what our eastern brothers may imagine, there is plenty of cash in that community. As you know, your hat makes a statement about you whether you are in NYC or Cody so it really isnt any different than a New York CEO spending 3K on a panama or a rancher in Texas spending 5K for the highest Stetson. There seems to be one heck of a lot of Ranchers and only a few CEO's:eusa_doh:

 

[Wayfarer]

I think it is just cultural perception...

Country music is such a big thing today. I think it is a major fashion decider. And remember not so many years ago it was called country-western music. I think what was considered "western" fashion just kinf of took over.

I think fedora have that "dressed up" classy perception.

I am pretty much a jeans and tee shirt guy. When i bought my first fedora my wife loved it but said i need to wear a suit with it.