Cowboy Boots

[Miss Crisplock]

In old pictures of cowboys I see them with pants tucked in boots. Or of course in chaps, and then you can't tell at all. I haven't seen anyone modern wear there pants in their boots.

Maybe highly decorated boot tops are like lingere with French lace- it doesn't matter if it isn't visable; the wearer knows what they've got on.

 

[GentlemanFarmer]

I know some real cowboys that wear their jeans inside the shaft. No way would I every call them "candy-assed", but these guys are the real McCoy and brother you can tell it right away because they're working when they do it. I've never seen a real cowboy wear their jeans inside at a honky tonk though.

As for the rows of stiching in the designs on the boot shafts, it was generally thought that the more rows of stiching the shaft has, it would denote a higher quality and higher priced boot.

 

[Byrne Sherwood]

I've had a few pairs of Justins. The most recent pair was a bit of a disappointment, seemed to be lower quality than the others. The others were great. Note that www.zappos.com has some decent deals on Luchese boots and the shipping is free both ways in case they do not fit well. I spent a few months in Houston TX and was impressed by the number of boot makers there.

 

[jpdesign]

A pegged shank

If you look at the sole of the boot, some have welt stitched all the way back to the heel(full welt), some the stitching ends as the sole starts to rise toward the heel(3/4 welt). On the later you will see small circles in one or two rows down each side of the sole as it rises to the heel. the pegs are traditionally made of lemon wood, though now brass is sometimes used, and hold the multiple layers of the sole together along with the vamp. Building a boot like this lets the sole flex more around the shank. which is good for riding. It also allows the use of a stronger and thicker shank, which means more arch support, which is better for riding or walking. On a full welt boot the sole will remain flat from side to side as it rises toward the heel, these usually just have a flat piece a stainless, or spring, steel for a shank. On a 3/4 welt the use of pegs allows the outer sole to be shaped and rounded from side to side, this allows a rounded or oval shank, often a 20 penny nail that has been somewhat flattened with an english wheel, to fit between to layers.

Jimmy

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I have three or four pair of Justins...couple Dan Post...vintage Fryes...plus two pair of Lucchese Classics. I do like all of them,tho the Fryes "squeek and creak"! I'll pick the Lucchese as almost houseslipper comfortable compared to others. I think Lincsong made a great choice!!!
HD

 

[Lincsong]

I wore a hole into the side of the EE's. I just went back to the store and had the lady order me a pair of EEE. I love those boots though.

 

[Mark George]

More on boots

About 5 years ago, I decided to learn about cowboy boots. I had worn them off and on all of my life, but really didn't know all that much about them. So, I began reading and buying boots on ebay, just to get a better idea about what's what. I have bought about 150 pair, all types of leather, several brands, and have even had a couple of pair of custom boots made. Some of the things I have learned are:
- Make sure they fit you. Since boots are not adjustable, they have to fit your instep, plus be wide enough and long enough. If you have "off the norm" feet like I have, you will play hell getting that ratio right from standard lasts.
- If a boot fits well, it will be moderately hard to pull on. This is because the instep and shaft should be snug when you have the boot on, and getting your foot around the corner as it goes on will be a challenge.
- Breaking in a boot not only requires training the vamp leather, but also imprinting the insole with the contours of your foot. It takes a while. Use plenty of Bick 4.
- With any of the big three (Justin, Nocona, and Tony Lama), and even with Lucchese, older boots are, on the average, higher quality. Some of the older (pre 1985) Luccheses I have are phenomenal. Justins made in Fort Worth, Noconas made in Nocona, and Luccheses made in San Antonio are the best of the lot.
- By and large, you shouldn't ask boots to do something they weren't designed for. They are poor for hiking, walking long distances, in winter weather conditions, etc. There are specific types of footwear for specific applications, and many reasons why this is so.
- Some of the other posters covered types of hides, and were pretty accurate. For all-around boots, calf skin will hold up nicely and will take a shine. Shark is indestruct-o and looks nice. Horse hide is under-appreciated; it makes a very comfortable and durable boot.
- If you are wearing boots with a suit or with business dress, get something that can be shined just like your wing tips. Well-shined footwear will never go out of style, however, some exotic leathers just look ridiculous with dress clothes. Save them for jeans.
- Ropers are not really western boots at all, and have none of the benefits in style or comfort. They are not built on boot lasts, and are in fact, high-topped loafers.
- I concur with those that mentioned pants length; You will have to buy longer pants when you switch to boots. Few things look dopier than boots with short pants.
- Jennifer June's website (www.dimlights.com) is an outstanding educational resource, and is highly recommended.
- After you are through studying them, you can sell your unsatisfactory boots on eBay.

Two bootshops that I don't believe were mentioned are: Stewart Boots in Tucson, and Loveless in Oklahoma City. Stewart boots are terrifically durable, and the owner, Victor Borg, will work with you to get a good fit. I have not found any off-the-shelf or even custom boots that are remotely as comfortable as Stewarts. They are not the fanciest boots around, nor the cheapest, but man, you can't beat the fit. Loveless is a family business building custom boots and shoes, and is co-located with an orthopedic shop, so your new boots will have custom orthotics (taken from your foot shape) built in. No break-in period needed! I have not worn Loveless boots, but their catalog is impressive and I know some of their satisfied orthotics customers.

Hope some of this is helpful,

Mark

 

[Lincsong]

The Lucchese's I just ordered are 8 1/2 EEE. The gal tried to get me to do a 9 EE but I wouldn't budge, either order the right size or I'll find someone who will. The old 8 1/2 EE is the perfect length but I need the extra width because I'm up and down all day long. The old pair were goat skin and were the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. This new pair is made of elk. How do you all like elk skins??

 

[Antje]

i'm a real cowboy boot freak, I have now 3 pair, I once had more,

but i really wear them till they don't have any soles anymore

I always wear sendra's and I don't even have to watch the size anymore if it is european 38 I can always put on the sendra's and they fit,

I have to post my coolest pair once thei're really great because It has the american flag on it

My dad got me into this cowboy boot thing and he also wears sendra only

 

[Patrick Murtha]

I love cowboy boots and vintage western wear, and these definitely comprise a subset of "classic style." One memorable fashion icon of this style was the Twenties cowboy movie star Tom Mix, whose fancy, expensive, and extensive wardrobe was a huge part of his appeal:

"Tom's bunkhouse (bedroom) was dominated by a nine-foot wide bed imported from Europe. The area had two large dressing rooms with huge, walk-in closets. This is where Tom kept a wardrobe of riding clothes, street clothes, formal attire, wide-brimmed Stetson hats, belts, buckles, and many hand tooled western boots. Paul E. Mix, in his hardcover book, "Tom Mix," states that Mix had over 600 pairs of boots and shoes, most of which were embossed with his initials. The walls of the dressing rooms were adorned with plaques and mementos, pictures of Tom Mix, and a copy of The Declaration of Independence."

600 pairs of boots and shoes -- now that's my kind of guy!

Here's another passage on Mix's fashion sense (from the same source as the one above, a reminiscence by one of his many wives, Olive Stokes Mix):

"His extravagance extended to his clothing, which had been more or less an obsession with him from youth and which he now was able to indulge to his heart's content: flamboyant, colorful outfits, business suits trimmed with leather; sports jackets that were so loud they screamed to high heaven. He had always enjoyed bright, happy colors and said they were a tonic to him.

Then there were the brilliant cowboy hats and gaily decorated, hand-tooled boots. And diamonds! The big diamond that Tom purchased for me in Montana would have been utterly lost among the diamond stickpins, shirt studs, tiepins, rings, wrist watches he accumulated-even one pair of diamond-studded spurs! Maybe Tom could not compete with Diamond Jim Brady, but he came a close second. "

Here is a good Mix website with plenty of pictures:

http://www.b-westerns.com/tommix.htm

 

[Tux Toledo]

I'm also partial to Lucchese. I have two pair and they are the most comfortable footwear I've ever worn. I purchased mine at the Lucchese store in Santa Fe, NM. Cool store, worth popping into if you're ever in Santa Fe.

 

[SGB]

I've worn cowboy boots all my life, my mother saved my first 2 pair (from when I was still in diapers) and recently gave them to me, I wore them out down to the nails showing in the heels. I also have sold boots. My favorite skin is full quill Ostrich, nothing fits better, is more comfortable or more durable. I currently have about 25 pair and my wife has more than 30, all exotics. Lately I only wear custom made boots, they fit so much better and you can get what you want. My favorite maker is William Shanor, great fit, awesome quality, reasonable price, you just have to wait for 2 years. I did have a pair of Stewarts made a little over a year ago. I had them make what is probably the last real custom pair, they said they wouldn't make another pair that fancy as it was too much work, and they could make 10 pair of stock boots in the time it took to make mine. They are nice boots but I'm still not satisfied with the fit, Vic made them too loose and I haven't worn them much because of that. I need to go back and see what we can do to make them fit better, although they are not real custom fits with a custom last made to my foot like my Shanors, I hope Vic can fine tune them a bit.
Nothing beats a nice fitting pair of boots, but the fit is the most important thing, if they don't fit you'll never wear them, no matter how nice they look. Work with a good boot person to get the right fit, it's worth it.

SGB

 

[GentlemanFarmer]

Great dissertation

Hey Mark. Nice point by point on boots. I really enjoy reading (and conversing) with others that really study up on a subject. I agree with your opinion regarding ropers. I have three pair, and yes, they do feel like loafers. Why else would I wear them to work. I can walk or stand all day in them. Your observations about a western boot not being fit for "hiking" is also well put. I did a whole day at Six Flags in Dallas in a pair of buckaroos. I was wanting someone to shoot me by the end of the day.

I would like to know the history of your avatar. Where is that doorway?

 

[Bill Taylor]

There is some really good information on boots in this thread. I have about 20 or 25 pairs of boots; Lucchese, Tony Lama, Dan Post, Justin and some other makers I can't recall . Also have a couple of pair Cowtown Boots I use for work boots and they are at least as good as the Luccheses and are indestructable. I also still have and wear a pair of boots my Dad had made for me in the summer of 1948 when I was 16. They were made by M. L. Leddy in San Angelo, Texas. They may have had a shop in Fort Worth, Texas as well, but can't remember for sure. I don't think they are in business anymore, but at that time, were one of the premiere custom boot makers in Texas. Luckily, I didn't grow any more. I was already 6'1" and wore size 12. As my Dad said at the time, he hoped my feet didn't grow anymore or there wouldn't be shoes big enough to fit me. Before that, I mostly had cheap Acme boots or ones from Montgomery Wards (Monkey Wards as it was called in those days) or Sears and Roebuck. Funny, but no one ever said Sears then, it was always Sears and Reobucks with the extra s on Roebucks.

I have never had a problem walking all day in boots, even now and I am 75 years old. Nearly all boots, maybe all period, now are sold with a walking heel which is made for both walking and riding. A riding heel is a little higher and has a more cut under slope, which helps hold firmer in the stirrups Those are definitely made for riding only; walking very far in them leads to great pain. I am on and off my horse pretty often, so walking heel works way better.

Levi's and dress pants should definitely puddle down on the boot, otherwise, it looks like your pants shrunk. In my opinion, only Levi's 501s work with boots. That is the only kind of jeans I have over worn. Nothing else fits right and the leg works better for boots. I think for a time, Levi Strauss made a boot cut leg for 501s, but mostly, that just looked dumb. Regular straigt leg seems to work and look better. The leg is too narrow on other brands of jeans and wears out boot tops and stiching. Baggy jeans make one look like a dope dealer who stole a pair of boots.

But there are two other items you definitely need with boots, and I didn't see that mentioned in this thread. You need a good boot jack (a good wooden one, not an el cheapo model and a pair of good wooden handle book hooks to pull them on with. Plastic stuff handles don't cut it. If they fit right, boots are a little hard to get on and off, and a jack and hooks make life much easier. Better on the boots, too.

Bill

 

[Mark George]

Great discussion

I am glad I ran into this thread because it is encouraging to hear from others that have a similar interest in cowboy boots. I work in Washington, DC, and I can assure you, boots are not a common sight 'round these parts. I get a lot of blank stares.

My earliest footwear memory is a pair of black (with red tops) cowboy boots that I wore to pieces before I was 4 years old. I remember seeing pictures of me wearing them, but I sure don't have the boots anymore.

Lincsong: I imagine elk will be soft and comfortable. No idea about durability.

GentlemanFarmer: I did not mean to disparage ropers; I have worn them on occasion myself. To me, they just don't fit the classic definition of a 20th century cowboy boot. The early cowboys probably wore something a lot closer to a roper or a Wellington than to any highly decorated, high-heeled Hollywood boot.

My avatar is a picture of the entrance to Cattlemen's Steakhouse in the Stockyards City section of Oklahoma City: my hometown. Good eats.

Mark

 

[GentlemanFarmer]

Mark - No offense taken. You're right about ropers, not a cowboy boot, but western. I'm just up the road from you, outside Harrisburg, PA. When I wear my ropers with Dockers to clinic here at the Med Center I get a few looks also.

 

[pgoat]

you really must try on several to see what fits your feet. Of the ready-to-wear boot brands I've tried, I preferred Lucchese by far - beautiful boots and worth every penny imho.

I like goatskin for shined dress boots, steerhide for tough work boots. Of course calf works fine too and cordovan is nice for the vamps.

White's makes nice lace up boots if heel slippage is a real issue.

 

[metalforart]

which boots to buy?

About 5 years ago, I decided to learn about cowboy boots. I had worn them off and on all of my life, but really didn't know all that much about them. So, I began reading and buying boots on ebay, just to get a better idea about what's what. I have bought about 150 pair, all types of leather, several brands, and have even had a couple of pair of custom boots made. Some of the things I have learned are:
- Make sure they fit you. Since boots are not adjustable, they have to fit your instep, plus be wide enough and long enough. If you have "off the norm" feet like I have, you will play hell getting that ratio right from standard lasts.
- If a boot fits well, it will be moderately hard to pull on. This is because the instep and shaft should be snug when you have the boot on, and getting your foot around the corner as it goes on will be a challenge.
- Breaking in a boot not only requires training the vamp leather, but also imprinting the insole with the contours of your foot. It takes a while. Use plenty of Bick 4.
- With any of the big three (Justin, Nocona, and Tony Lama), and even with Lucchese, older boots are, on the average, higher quality. Some of the older (pre 1985) Luccheses I have are phenomenal. Justins made in Fort Worth, Noconas made in Nocona, and Luccheses made in San Antonio are the best of the lot.
- By and large, you shouldn't ask boots to do something they weren't designed for. They are poor for hiking, walking long distances, in winter weather conditions, etc. There are specific types of footwear for specific applications, and many reasons why this is so.
- Some of the other posters covered types of hides, and were pretty accurate. For all-around boots, calf skin will hold up nicely and will take a shine. Shark is indestruct-o and looks nice. Horse hide is under-appreciated; it makes a very comfortable and durable boot.
- If you are wearing boots with a suit or with business dress, get something that can be shined just like your wing tips. Well-shined footwear will never go out of style, however, some exotic leathers just look ridiculous with dress clothes. Save them for jeans.
- Ropers are not really western boots at all, and have none of the benefits in style or comfort. They are not built on boot lasts, and are in fact, high-topped loafers.
- I concur with those that mentioned pants length; You will have to buy longer pants when you switch to boots. Few things look dopier than boots with short pants.
- Jennifer June's website (www.dimlights.com) is an outstanding educational resource, and is highly recommended.
- After you are through studying them, you can sell your unsatisfactory boots on eBay.

Two bootshops that I don't believe were mentioned are: Stewart Boots in Tucson, and Loveless in Oklahoma City. Stewart boots are terrifically durable, and the owner, Victor Borg, will work with you to get a good fit. I have not found any off-the-shelf or even custom boots that are remotely as comfortable as Stewarts. They are not the fanciest boots around, nor the cheapest, but man, you can't beat the fit. Loveless is a family business building custom boots and shoes, and is co-located with an orthopedic shop, so your new boots will have custom orthotics (taken from your foot shape) built in. No break-in period needed! I have not worn Loveless boots, but their catalog is impressive and I know some of their satisfied orthotics customers.

Hope some of this is helpful,

Mark

Mark

Thanks for the great information. I am planning on buying a pair of custom made work cowboy boots. I am looking for something very tough and have narrowed it down to the following makers: Paul Bond,( the Bond boots would be about $400. more) Bowman Wilson, or Beck boots. Do you have any insite into any of them? Currently I only wear Wesco.

Thanks Metalforart

 

[Mark George]

Metalforart,

The only one of those three I know anything about are Paul Bond boots - I have three pair. The ones I have are dress boots, and don't seem all that sturdy, but I know they do make work boots. Their stock work boots are waxed calf, but they have every other kind of leather, too. The craftsmen at Paul Bond's make some really beautiful boots.

If you get your boots custom-fitted, then whatever you get will have a superior fit compared to stock sizes. I am jealous of those people that can comfortably wear off-the-shelf boots.

The next boots I get will be made by Loveless in OKC. Their products are beautiful, and they make everything from fancy dress boots to lace-up hunting boots and packers. Not to mention their shoes! The older I get, the more I like the idea of having custom orthotics built in. Also, I bet they are less expensive than Bonds!

Anyway, good luck, and please post a picture once you get your boots.

Mark

 

[tonyper]

Love this thread

Love it, !! I have been thinking about a pair of Western Boots, have not had a pair since the 80's. All the info you guys and gals have posted is great. I found a site not too long ago that listed heel shapes and heights. I am looking for a heel higher than a Roper but not 1.5 inches high either. Is a walking heel still undercut?? I like the look of those. Also someone mentioned straight leg Levi's for Boots. I can see how the boots fit under the legs with out the shaft binding on the pant legs. I was thinking about Boot Cut jeans, but am skeptical now since that post. For a person like me with a size 13 I think the straight leg jeans would only make the boots look bigger the Bootcuts would make those 13's look smaller and streamlined. Opinions ???


Thanks Tony