Couple of questions about leather jacket features

[shadowrider]

Hi folks, here are some questions I have been wondering about lately, and whch I'm sure some of you vintage leather gurus can help shed some light on.

With old motorcycle jackets that had beltloops around them at the bottom, was the belt provided with the jacket or there was none? Were these belts the same as trouser belts, or were they different (thicker)?

I quite like pockets on jackets from the 50s/60s/70s that have cordings around them. I rarely see this detail on new jackets. Is there a purpose for such feature or is it just an aestethic one? Since the cording kind of follows the outline of the pocket lining, I suspect it may have originated from sewing the lining onto the jacket front, which would make sense if the jacket was unlined.

Lastly, this is not leather related. Could anyone tell me what jackets, whether military or civilian, had hooks instead of buttons like USN deck jackets? I know of said deck jackets and USN foul weather ponchos having them. Also, are these hooks components availble for purchase somewhere? I'd be interested in some for a leather project of mine.

 

[Peacoat]

The first question I can answer. There were belts around the bottom of the jacket that fit inside the belt loops. For a picture see the thread started by HD, linked below. You will want the 7th post which is by Aswatland. The brown Buco J23 copy is a good example of the belt that goes with this type of jacket.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...-Motorcycle-Riding-Jackets-In-Your-Collection

 

[shadowrider]

Thanks, Peacoat. Yes it seems like some jackets came with their matching belt, and I think jacket companies sold jacket belts as well, with reflectors and such.
I have a modern biker jacket that has loops but didn't come with a belt, though. I wonder if I should just sling a pants belt through.
Anyone else care to weight in on the this (or on my other questions)?

 

[Edward]

My ELC Roadstar came without a belt. Any decent trouser belt would work (I suggest an inch and a quarter or inch and a half should be fine). Do note, though, that such a belt will be stiffer than what you see on a Perfecto type, and so when the jacket is worn open it will stick out a bit.

 

[IXL]

Some of us guys around here, who wear Vanson CHP jackets, wear them with a "Sam Browne" duty-style belt. They are wide, thick, and stiff. Strong Leather is a U.S. manufacturer of very good quality S.B. belts.

 

[Edward]

Some of us guys around here, who wear Vanson CHP jackets, wear them with a "Sam Browne" duty-style belt. They are wide, thick, and stiff. Strong Leather is a U.S. manufacturer of very good quality S.B. belts.

You have a photo of that? I'm struggling to imagine how the shoulder strap on a Sam Browne would work with as jacket like that.

(Those Vanson jackets are really nice - considered one, but I was put off by the lace-up side adjusters).

 

[andyfalzon]

When a jacket is sold with belt loops but no belt, then the belt loops are just a design feature and no belt is intended.
No serious maker makes beltless jackets to sell you the belt separately. Also, you are not supposed to wear your pants belt there unless you want to be arrested by the fashion police. (It's something like wearing your sandals with socks).

 

[IXL]

You have a photo of that? I'm struggling to imagine how the shoulder strap on a Sam Browne would work with as jacket like that.

(Those Vanson jackets are really nice - considered one, but I was put off by the lace-up side adjusters).

I haven't seen a shoulder strap on a regular duty-style S.B. belt in years, maybe in a parade or two. I'm sorry for the confusion. I do know what you mean about the adjusters but I've gotten used to them on this jacket and really don't notice them at this point, especially when wearing the belt.

 

[IXL]

When a jacket is sold with belt loops but no belt, then the belt loops are just a design feature and no belt is intended.
No serious maker makes beltless jackets to sell you the belt separately......

You are surely joking.
How about this: "When a holster is sold without containing a handgun inside, it too is only a design feature." See, I can make a blanket statement having no basis in fact, as well.
I find no issue with Vanson not supplying the belt with the CHP jacket. Many LEO customers will already have several S.B. style belts and would just as soon save a few dollars by not being forced to purchase another one with their serious jacket.
Maybe things are different in Europe.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

When a jacket is sold with belt loops but no belt, then the belt loops are just a design feature and no belt is intended.

Surely you are not serious. Or perhaps you are not very familiar with MC jackets..??
HD

 

[andyfalzon]

What holsters have to do with jackets?
Trousers are sold with belt loops but no belts, but they also have nothing to do with jackets or holsters.
Trench coats on the other hand which have more to do with jackets than holsters and pants are sold with belt, because if they weren't where the heck were you gonna find a matching belt?
The MC jacket with belt loops should be sold with a matching belt, that if the wearer wants can remove, either because he is more comfy this way, or because that's his fashion statement.
In a similar way, a designer who wants to make the same fashion statement does not include the belt. I have seen countless offerings where the shop carries the jacket but no belts. It will be much to the amusement of the staff (and way embarrassing for you) if you ask them for a belt to go with the jacket.

Let me add one thing. I am talking about what happens today in fashion. Not what was happening in the 50/60/70s.

 

[IXL]

What holsters have to do with jackets?
Trousers are sold with belt loops but no belts, but they also have nothing to do with jackets or holsters.
Trench coats on the other hand which have more to do with jackets than holsters and pants are sold with belt, because if they weren't where the heck were you gonna find a matching belt?
The MC jacket with belt loops should be sold with a matching belt, that if the wearer wants can remove, either because he is more comfy this way, or because that's his fashion statement.
In a similar way, a designer who wants to make the same fashion statement does not include the belt. I have seen countless offerings where the shop carries the jacket but no belts. It will be much to the amusement of the staff (and way embarrassing for you) if you ask them for a belt to go with the jacket.

Let me add one thing. I am talking about what happens today in fashion. Not what was happening in the 50/60/70s.

Holster? It was used as an example, as I explained in my original post, of a blanket statement having no basis in fact, just as your continuing assertion that any jacket containing belt loops WILL HAVE a supplied belt, or said jacket's belt loops WILL BE only for fashion.
But, as an aside, holsters do have something to do with the Vanson CHP: this jacket is worn by many LEOs. They are worn with a Sam Browne duty belt. The belt serves as a platform for the officer's..... holster. See?
I agree with you partly: I think most trench coats probably come supplied with a belt. However, we were not talking about trench coats, but about leather jackets.

 

[ButteMT61]

When you think a thread just can't get any better...

 

[IXL]

^^^ Thanks!! I'll be here all week, and don't forget to try the lamb, and be sure to tip your waitress.....

 

[ButteMT61]

^^^ Thanks!! I'll be here all week, and don't forget to try the lamb, and be sure to tip your waitress.....

Sorry man, not you! I was referring to previous drivel...

 

[Edward]

I haven't seen a shoulder strap on a regular duty-style S.B. belt in years, maybe in a parade or two. I'm sorry for the confusion. I do know what you mean about the adjusters but I've gotten used to them on this jacket and really don't notice them at this point, especially when wearing the belt.

Ah! I get you now. I think of the shoulder loop because that is the defining innovation of the Sam Browne in its original context, but of course it can be used without, as a regular belt.

I am talking about what happens today in fashion. Not what was happening in the 50/60/70s.

Mn. You're on kind of the wrong website if you think folks round here care about that. ;-)

 

[andyfalzon]

I speak of today because, sorry, I wasn't in USA in the 1950s to buy a beltless jacket with belt loops so I wouldn't know.

 

[IXL]

I wasn't in the USA in the 1950s, either.

 

[shadowrider]

I speak of today because, sorry, I wasn't in USA in the 1950s to buy a beltless jacket with belt loops so I wouldn't know.

I think we are speaking about different things. Motorcycle jackets don't usually have much space for fashion statements. But you may be right about designer jackets.

On a different note, would anyone know a source for new vintage-style belts with reflectors or jewels, that I could use for that purpose, at a moderate price?

 

[ButteMT61]

I think we are speaking about different things. Motorcycle jackets don't usually have much space for fashion statements. But you may be right about designer jackets.

On a different note, would anyone know a source for new vintage-style belts with reflectors or jewels, that I could use for that purpose, at a moderate price?

See the Thurston/Insurrection thread. They carry a lot fo them. I think they're ~$125 a piece.