Costume vs. natural

[Tiller]

Skeet - good for you having the strength to be who you were at an already difficult age.

BTW, I have 8mm film somewhere of me walking around in Central Park (NYC) in about 1965 wearing a top hat.[/COLOR][/B] lol

I think you and Skeet are two of my heroes on the board! I love the idea of putting it to the "nonconformist" conformist, and doing exactly what you want when you want. With my generation is the turned flat ball cap to the side look, so you look like a duck is coming out of your skull, well wearing sweat shorts, and a basketball jersey. All the "nonconformist" wear it.lol

fftopic: One of my favorite episodes of House he is interviewing for his panel, and a twenty something long hair walks into his office. The twenty something then goes off about how he loves the "nonconformist vibe", that House has. How he respects how House "gives it to the man", and how important being a nonconformist is to him.

House then ask him if that's a tattoo on his forearm. The long hair says yes, and then House tells him to "Get out". The long hair then says something like "I can't believe you enforce conformity!" Then House flips out, and says something like "Oh yes a twenty something long hair hippie wanna be with a tattoo. There surely aren't many of you guys around. You want to be a nonconformist? Get a hair cut, buy a pocket protector, and go study with the Asian kids, and stop going to late night parties. They are the guys who don't give a damn what other people think." lol

 

[Edward]

I think you have that in modern everyday clothing as well. I wear a suit at work every day for nearly 20 years and feel even more comfortable in it than with a pair of stiff jeans. Others, however, who are not used to wearing suits (because they don't have to, don't like them, find them to be not practical, etc, whatever) sometimes look a bit out of place when wearing one. On some wedding photos of friends of mine, the bride looks wonderful and charming while the bridegroom looks as if his arms were installed the wrong way round.

Dressing up in a suit w. tie is costume to me.
I feel akward and not "myself" in that, while I - on the other hand - easily grab my Irvin flying jacket and heavy 1936 Pattern RAF flying boots, when going to work. And I am NOT a pilot and it's NOT 1940.

I think it all depends on what you feel "at home" in.

The two gentlemen above hit it exactly right, IMO. It's not the clothes, as a rule, but the comfort of the wearer. This was screamingly apparent to me even as a foruteen year old seeing our games teacher at a school prize night - the man looked wildly out of placed in a suit, and clearly wasn't at all comfortable out of his sportswear. Others, his contemporaries and colleagues of a similar age, build and height, carried it off with aplomb as they wore their suits as if a second skin (whether that was, in fact, their daily wear or not).

At a wedding back in November 2007, in which I was invovled with the bridal party, I received a number of compliments on how well I looked in morning dress, most picking up that it looked completely natural on me. As I pointed out at the time, it's purely confidence and comfort.... a guy comfortable in his own clothes will (within reason, of course!) always look much better than the guy who doesn't want to be wearing a suit / tie / shoes.... etc.

 

[chanteuseCarey]

she's a sweetie but isn't into the vintage stuff...

as much as her brother. Though I always sewed and embroidered smocked dresses for her when was little. She wore them to church on Sundays, and at the holidays. I'll have to dig up some photographs and scan them in. So she WAS basically wearing vintage style at a very young age.

That's funny,I've always told my friends,that if I ever have kids,I will raise them to be insufferable romantics.

I'm trying to raise them to be HOPEFUL romantics I suppose. I did marry a romantic (we met ballroom dancing) the second time around.

Yeah, in this respect we are very different here. No video games, not even cable TV here for years now. We watch old movies and especially musicals. The children volunteer with DH and I for a local Pops Orchestra- they both usher. The Yosemite Art Deco trip was their first vintage event, and going to the Vintage Fashion Expo was their first vintage shopping trip.

In 4-6th grade, most of Daniel's buddies at school were girls! That's cause he is very polite, was interested in them, is not into rough and tumble sports (but Ballroom Dancing IS a sport IMO) and he is NICE. He also as you can see in the pictures has a interest in being well dressed and well groomed-a rarity too. No escapades-yet.

Let's face it,most boys his age play mind-numbing video games,get into various escapades and throw rocks at girls.At least they did when I was that age about 9 years ago:eusa_doh:

Oh,and your daughter looks adorable,too!
Maybe you just have 'vintage genes' in your family lol

 

[Mike K.]

This is a really great thread. My take on the costume versus natural debate boils down to how often you actually wear the attire. If it is a daily part of your lifestyle, then obviously one looks and feels naturally more vintage. However, if one only "walks the walk" for a few special occasions (e.g. the annual Fedora Lounge QM Event), then costume is a more apt description. Personally, I don't have the opportunity to dress up often; my job is not in an office and does not require a suit. To go all-out db suit, spectator shoes, and fedora would definitely be costume for me (and I would feel it and look it). However, integrating a few classic style items into my dress wardrobe (e.g. going to church or meetings) allows me to naturally integrate some vintage. For my everyday dress, classic/vintage attire honestly is more akin to the Robert Redford 'Out of Africa' look. My hats are broad-brimmed, my clothing canvas and leather, very outdoorsy. It works naturally, it's classy, and I get more compliments than "hey Indy" or "hey Crocodile Dundee" remarks. But as I peruse the various FL threads (most notably the Adventurers Gear Thread), I cannot help but notice how many others wear their classic outdoor apparel as more costume. The boots are shiny and polished, with no sign of wear & tear. The hats, shirts, pants, and accessories are likewise clean, spotless, and shiny new. It all screams costume. So I guess for me, the issue of costume versus natural can be discerned by the amount of actual wear the attire gets. When did you last wear that hat, that dress, that suit? How much wear is on the soles of your shoes? Is that outfit a trusty old friend you visit weekly or a virtual stranger in your closet?

 

["Skeet" McD]

I think you and Skeet are two of my heroes on the board! I love the idea of putting it to the "nonconformist" conformist, and doing exactly what you want when you want. With my generation is the turned flat ball cap to the side look, so you look like a duck is coming out of your skull, well wearing sweat shorts, and a basketball jersey. All the "nonconformist" wear it.

Dear Tiller, thanks for the kind words. If you're doing the same thing right now, you're one of my heroes, too.

Remember, however, that at all times and in all places, most people ARE conformists (for better or worse reasons, admittedly): the exceptional is literally and exactly that--an exception. Given the normal differences in individual taste....one of the ironies is that we just happen to prefer the "conforming norms" of a different time and place . The particularly disheartening aspect of the past 40 years or so has been the hypocricy involved in conforming to....alleged nonconformity. fftopic: rather like the current fad of "celebrating diversity" as long as it's....approved diversity.

But back on topic. Remember, though, that enjoying "putting it to the nonconformist conformist" strays perilously close to doing something to make a statement. Do what you do because, and only because, it's what you feel you should do. And let the rest like it or lump it....

Cheers,
"Skeet"

 

["Skeet" McD]

Fashions in....cleanliness....

But as I peruse the various FL threads (most notably the Adventurers Gear Thread), I cannot help but notice how many others wear their classic outdoor apparel as more costume. The boots are shiny and polished, with no sign of wear & tear. The hats, shirts, pants, and accessories are likewise clean, spotless, and shiny new. It all screams costume. So I guess for me, the issue of costume versus natural can be discerned by the amount of actual wear the attire gets. When did you last wear that hat, that dress, that suit? How much wear is on the soles of your shoes? Is that outfit a trusty old friend you visit weekly or a virtual stranger in your closet?

Dear Mike, good points, I think. I don't spend any time over in Adventurer-land (perhaps I should), but I do spend a lot of time in the out of doors shooting and hunting, and occasionally camping "in period," so I have a large number of period outing items. And yes, my hunting vest looks QUITE well used, full of feathers (thanks be to the red gods!) and you'd see a bit of blood here and there. And I don't think I'll be taking my Bean Boots back to the store and convincing them I just bought them . So I take your point.

On the other hand--particularly for those who spend less time in the bush and whose vintage clothing is more "normal"--we should remember that folks in the past were quite concerned about their appearance and did just about everything they could to make sure that their clothes and appurtenances were clean, well-kept, and as new (or new-looking) as they could manage. Even the roughest lumberman, field hand, or cowboy brushed up and put on the best clothes they had to go into town--and if they didn't, it was remarked upon. A quick glance through the WPA photos of working folks will show a LOT of very spandy-looking denim, even if there's a patch or two on it.

We, who are able to have so much in a material way and have to work so very little in a physical way (painting with a very broad brush, now, mind you) have the luxury to romanticize "honest" dirt and wear and tear (much as the sun tan became fashionable only when it proved that you had the luxury to lie about in the sun off-season instead of having acquired your bronzing sweating with a hoe in your hand).

In some ways, those folks who spend a good deal of time making sure their clothes are spotless before going out in public are spiritually closer to the folks who did it for real, I think. But--to return to something that's been said many times in this very interesting thread--the real answer is what you THINK you're doing, and how comfortable you are with doing it.

"Skeet"

 

[John in Covina]

There is the connection as Mike & Spitfire have pointed out: that if you are comfortable in the "outfit" you're wearing then you will be more natural and that comes thru in body language. The reverse is true if you feel not confident or you're "acting" in the outfit, then body language tends to reveal your emotional state.

 

[Mike K.]

...and my point wasn't simply about how much wear & tear, dust & dirt. Sure we still try to take care of what we have to wear each day, just as in yesteryear. The main point is how often do you wear vintage? Is it something worn just once or twice a year like a Halloween costume, or something that is a normal everyday (hence natural) part of your attire.

 

[metropd]

A man who loves and is passionate about the circus so he dresses in a clown suit everyday, that's NOT a costume. 1,000 men dressed in over sized navy suits with red power ties dressed to get ahead in life...that's a costume. Dressing is self expression, so express yourself, no one else.

 

[Feraud]

1,000 men dressed in over sized navy suits with red power ties dressed to get ahead in life...that's a costume.

That's called working to pay the bills.

 

[benstephens]

An interesting thread. I think it boils down to what people see vintage clothing as. To me, in all honesty it is a hobby. A hobby I very much enjoy, but in the end when I wear full vintage attire, it is costume. I wear bits and pieces in my every day clothing, but most of my vintage is worn at events etc aimed at that.

I am a very self concious person, and am much happier blending in than standing out. I enjoy the golden era, and to me, to spend a weekend once in a while away is a fantastic release from work etc. I have many great friends, and have travelled all over the world to vintage events. When i am at an event, I feel very at ease in all the clothing, more so than I feel if I just wear it out and about etc. I certainly could not wear more than the odd vintage Item for work.

Like wise I am happy to go out and about in vintage clothing if there are a few people. They can field the questions etc. Sorry to disapoint those who have a great style based on vintage clothing, but that is me, and that is how I am happy with my occasional foray into a vintage world.

Kindest regards

Ben

 

[Fletch]

That's called working to pay the bills.

What's it called when your trousers bunch up into the crotch and ride down your belly, and your jacket buckles like a pop-up camper top every time you raise your arms?

 

[Feraud]

What's it called when your trousers bunch up into the crotch and ride down your belly, and your jacket buckles like a pop-up camper top every time you raise your arms?

Shopping at every local men's store.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Carry on!

An interesting thread. I think it boils down to what people see vintage clothing as. To me, in all honesty it is a hobby.
Kindest regards

Ben

Dear Ben,
It sounds very much like you know exactly what you're doing, and why. I should hope that there's no undertone of "this is right and/or better than that" in all of this; the consensus seems to be that if you dress with conviction, however you dress, you will have no problems.

Keep doing just as you're doing and enjoy every bit of it.

With very best wishes,
"Skeet"

 

[Miss Neecerie]

What's it called when your trousers bunch up into the crotch and ride down your belly, and your jacket buckles like a pop-up camper top every time you raise your arms?

Middle Management

 

[benstephens]

That is right Skeet, I am saying this is my reason. I have many friends who live complete vintage lifestyles, those that wear some great vintage clothing and have their own individual style and those that do not wear vintage at all. I like them all!

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[fortworthgal]

Personally I think there are several key factors at play.

First, don't go overboard.

Second, know what suits YOU. Find your niche.

Third, confidence.

I wear vintage probably 30% of the time mixed with my everyday, "regular" clothes. My regular clothes are things like wide-leg khaki pants with sweater twinsets and white blouses, and the occasional dress. The vintage I wear to work is mostly 1950s shirtdresses, so it doesn't stand out as "Whoa, she's wearing something completely different from normal." I get compliments when I wear them, usually along the lines of how cute I look, but never anything related to appearing costumey. I also mix in modern pieces, such as a 50s dress with bakelite jewelry, but modern flats. When I dress vintage, I don't change my makeup or my hair. Essentially, my vintage style is very much the same as my "regular" style, if that makes sense. While I love 50s clothing, I don't want to look like I fell out of an episode of "I Love Lucy." Taking a look "too far" lends itself to a costumey appearance.

As far as going overboard, if I showed up wearing the same outfit with a big crinoline underneath (which I own, but do not wear to the office), cat-eye glasses, red lips & nails, bakelite purse, hat, gloves, curled hair, and spike heels - I guarantee I'd have people informing me that I was slightly early for Halloween. Because that style isn't "me" and it doesn't fit in with what I normally wear at all. It is similar to what LizzieMaine said about the pinup style looking out of place on her. The "everyday" look is more my style, whether I'm in vintage or in modern jeans. I think you have to find your niche and go with it. My husband is one of the only guys I know IRL who can pull off a lot of military and vintage clothing for daily wear, and it never looks odd on him. I think when you find a style that suits you, it looks and feels natural.

Third, you need to feel confident about what you are wearing. If you *feel* like you are wearing a costume, then you're going to look like you are.

 

[armod]

my opinion on this matter is as follows.

one should always look and feel at ease in what they wear and the clothing should be a part of who they are or how they're feeling no matter what it is (uniforms to formal wear to work clothes and casuals).

if they don't look that way then the clothes are wearing them.

I've seen people being worn by business suits and black tie because they're not comfortable outside of their jeans and t-shirt or because they feel the suit is more a novelty than a regular item of clothing in their rotation.



some people just have a different understanding of clothes as others and that's fine. people are different.

 

[Paisley]

Don't all these anecdotes about knowing at a glance when someone is comfortable and at ease in their clothes (or not) belie the idea that you can't tell much from a person's appearance?

 

[Slim Portly]

Don't all these anecdotes about knowing at a glance when someone is comfortable and at ease in their clothes (or not) belie the idea that you can't tell much from a person's appearance?

As Twain said, "Clothes make the man."