Christy's of London

[GClark]

Interesting.
There is a little store in Middleburg VA that I like to visit called English Country Classics http://www.cdrigden.com/index.htm that has hats - a couple of straw selections in the summer and one brown felt in the winter, as well as (overpriced IMO) flat caps. The felt looks a LOT like a Chrysty's hat to me, but when I asked they said no - made somewhere else. I wonder if that hat is made in the same factory as well. They are priced about 50% higher than a Hornet Hat Chrysty's, I think.
As an aside, they also carry their store brand shooting jackets, English shirts and suits. Nice stuff. Worth checking out if you live close by.
Gordon

Ok, you guys want to know the facts? If you buy a Christy from Hornet Hats, or an H.J. from H.J. both of these hats are made in Spain. The factory in Spain also makes their own rabbit felt. How do I know? Because we have a hat made in this same factory! But, we have Portugal felt sent in to them, as we did not like their rabbit felt.

There is no coincidence that both the Christy and the HJ sweat bands are identical. Just different names on them. Look for yourself. Get an HJ and a Christy, and you will see the same hat, from sweat and felt, to the ribbon used.

I don't know why those guys said something contrary. No clue. But, trust me on this one. I have both hats, and when I saw the similarity, I just made a call to verify it.

This factory in Spain makes many of the hats sold in Europe. Under different names. The factory is small for hat factories and can only make 24,000 hats a year.

You find out alot about who makes hats in Europe when you seek out a factory to make a hat for your own company. That's how I found out.

We have a factory made hat that we pay to have detailed, with a vintage like sweat, a great bow, and hand stitched liners. Along with the Portugal 20 per cent beaver body. You would not know it came from the same factory that makes the HJ and Christy. But, our costs are what the Christy retails for and then some. This Spanish factory makes low end and high end hats. As they have always done. And been around a long long time.

Don't expect to get facts when talking to HJ or Christy. That is not the way it works. Fedora

 

[marvelgoose]

Can anyone compare the texture, thickness, and strength of one of these Christie-Spanish-Hungarian hare mix felts to Akubra imperial felt?

 

[gtdean48]

I just ordered a Foldaway but was told the Burma color was out & now waiting to see when it may be available...[huh]

 

[Fedora]

But Hornets continues to have an honest gauge on their margin.

I agree. Around a 100 per cent gross margin, from Hornet, and much, much more for HJ. It's their name that costs ya.

Can anyone compare the texture, thickness, and strength of one of these Christie-Spanish-Hungarian hare mix felts to Akubra imperial felt?
Today 06:56 AM

I know this all too well. I work with the Spanish felt for another vendor. I will just say this... you can tear the brim off of the HJ or Christy, when you reblock them, IF you are not really careful. On the other hand, the Akubra Imperial felt is as tough as nails. This says to me, the Imperial line is a better felted fur. This is the manner in which I judge fur felt, that is, the quality of the felt. You learn alot by working with various felts.

But with that said, the current Spanish felt I am getting is thicker than what you have seen in the past on HJs and Christys. So, being thicker, it is doesn't suffer from tearing like the prior felt did. The weight of the regular HJ and Christy is about the same as the Imperial line from Akubra. I have never weighed them, but both appear to be close in weight. But one must consider the weight of the sweats too, when doing my comparison. The Akubra sweat is sheep skin, and much thinner than the cowhide thick sweats in the HJ and Christy. If I were to weigh both with these removed, I might come up with a different weight. All seem to be about the same thickness though.

The factory that makes both the Christy and HJ has a very nice sweatband in sheep skin, that we have them put in our hats made there. Very vintage looking, and very soft. I love it. Just costs more to use it, and that is why you don't see it in the HJ and Christy. Because at the end of the day, both of those hats are fairly low down in the quality scale. But great hats for those on a tight budget. So, they certainly have a place and sell well, due to the price. But in my opinion, the Akubra is a much higher quality hat, all around. But, it probably costs more than the Christy. I have not bought one lately.

With all of this said, the felt on the HJ and Christy reminds me a little of the vintage Royal line from the old Stetson company, in texture. But unlike the vintage Stetson Royal line, these new hats shrink and taper pretty fast if you get them wet, or leave them in a hot car. And are hard to reblock when that does occur. I think this is because of the way they are made. I was told by HJ a couple years ago, the hats were dry blocked, instead of steam, or wet blocked at the factory. That would explain why they seem to be very prone to shrinkage. It's a fast made hat, and the price reflects that, at least from Hornet Hats.

I reblock new HJs for another vendor. Once pulled down over the new blockshape I put into them, I hit the hat with a big shot of steam, and the crown immediately shrinks and loses 1/4 of an inch in height. So, not very stable felt there. If I then iron the hat, on the block to set in the new shape, more than a couple of times, I can literally have a 5 inch open crown hat(too short for an Indy fedora) so, you have to be careful with em'. Now, this is using the regular mid weight felt. The heavier stuff I use now does not suffer from this malady. I still lose 1/4 an inch, but once I lose it, it stabilizes at that new 5 1/2 inch open crown height. And that makes it much easier to work with, and pleases me quite a bit. Because, I know this hat will be more durable, and could be reblocked again in the future.

But be aware, my opinions come from a standpoint of being a hatter. So, beauty is more than skin deep, when I talk about particular felt, or hats. I think the Christy looks really nice out of the box. I love the sable color that is available. The ribbon work isn't that good, but on par with other hats in that price scale. And I guess the only thing that I dislike about the Christy is the cowhide, thick, sweatbands. That they don't flange.(flare out the reeded portion), and they don't use a ferrule on the ends of the too limp reed. Very strange at first appearance, but then again, you can't flange this sweat anyways, due to the rigidity of the thick leather they use. I know, because I have tried. It's the combo of the thick leather and the limp reed that does not allow this. But again, I am speaking from a hatters veiwpoint. Just a regular customer might care less! Fedora

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I just ordered a Foldaway but was told the Burma color was out & now waiting to see when it may be available...[huh]

I ordered mine in early Sep was told it would ship Oct 30.

I called then was told sometime in December.


I canceled my order...:eusa_doh:

 

[marvelgoose]

Fedora, thank you for the education and for the time you spent on that post. Much appreciated. BTW, in answer to your question, exchange rates favor the Dollar-Australian transactions right now making price almost even.

You mentioned the quality of production dress hats that are made for the Hassidic Jews. Is there a vendor in the US or do I need to make a special order through Hornet? Can't go high dollar custom for a hat that will get occasional wear and look real nice on eBay after I die!

 

[Tone]

Agreed on the Christys. It continues to be a GREAT hat for the money.
Kudos to Hornets for their customer service, too.

 

[cybergentleman]

christys v akubra

this post about akubra being a tougher hat than christys does not really surprise me. i am anxiously awaiting my christys adventurer...i opted for the sable felt with black band...not that i saunter around town with a whip ad pistol or have a deep seated fetish for leather jackets and khakis either.
just seemed like an unassuming yet versatile color combo.

anyway, i was under the impression that the new christys felts are thicker than before. but that the christys finish is smoother and more dressy than the akubra.

also that the akubra felt is so tough that it can be tough to bash a federation.

basically, akubra is a rougher tougher hat, but christys is dressier.

regarding the needle work: other christys retailers have offered to stitch the bow and band so as to avoid the nasty christy's needle work.

will post picks when it arrives, provided the postal services here don't lose my order

 

[Fedora]

You mentioned the quality of production dress hats that are made for the Hassidic Jews. Is there a vendor in the US or do I need to make a special order through Hornet? Can't go high dollar custom for a hat that will get occasional wear and look real nice on eBay after I die!

I highly doubt you could get this felt through Hornet. Mainly because Portugal makes that felt for hat makers, plus, the felt that is used in the Christy is made in Spain, by the factory that makes the hats for Christy. We had to set it up with this Spanish factory, to have Portugal felt sent to them for our own line of factory hats. And when dealing with Portugal, there is a high minimum. They won't just send one body is what I am saying.

I was told a couple years ago when talking about felt with another hatter, about this felt from Portugal. I did not even knew it existed until he told me it did. He just said to me, "if you want the finest rabbit felt in the world, order the felt used for the Hasidic Jewish hats, but order it with a smooth finish. But, I have never seen any of this felt so...but, maybe one day I will. I would have to buy their minimum though, that is many dozens to even get it. But no plans presently for doing so.


Also, I don't know any American hatter who is using this felt referenced above. Not that some don't, but I am not aware of them, if they do. Being a pricey rabbit felt, most hatters might opt for the run of the mill rabbit, due to costs. No market for it really. It probably is on par in wholesale price to pure beaver. Or close.

I am sure Tonak has a felt that is similiar to this felt too. Afterall, they make different grades of rabbit felt. We just don't see it much over here. What I have seen from Tonak is run of the mill rabbit felt, like used in the hats sold at Burlington Coat Factory. Which is probably Tonak's lowest quality felt, going by the price of the hats. Afterall, a rabbit body can run from around 5 bucks a body to a hundred bucks a body, depending upon the quality and fur used. And you just don't see those hundred dollar rabbit bodies in hats around here. No market for em'. Too costly from the hatter. And for hat afficionados only club.

I reckon the finest rabbit hats I ever owned were vintage Borsalinos. Real vintage ones that is, from the 40's. I have a couple in my stable. But this company knew how to make great hats, and like other hatters of that era, aged the fur, after it was carroted, before using it to run hat bodies. No one ages the fur today, like they did in yesteryear. Too costly to tie it up in inventory, for these hatless times. But, the aging mellowed the fur, and produced a mellow hat in the process. Have you owned a modern Borsalino lately??? What a travesty from a very old hatmaker. Makes me wanta cry. I feel the same way about new Stetsons. Not even close to the real deal Stetson, made in Philly, prior to 1970.

 

[gtdean48]

I ordered mine in early Sep was told it would ship Oct 30.

I called then was told sometime in December.


I canceled my order...:eusa_doh:

Email from Sarah at Hornet Hats says Burma felt will be in for Christy's by the end of this month, so I let my order ride. Will post review when it gets here, my Christmas present to me this year...

 

[frussell]

Same problem with Hornets

I also just received the "no Burma" email from Sarah. This was only after I emailed an enquiry after reading the above post. I'm a bit sketchy about companies that charge your credit card and then fail to notify you that something you ordered is not available, especially when they don't have a definite date, which they don't. I asked if the Adventurer was in stock in Light Grey or Bessemer, but she did not answer that question, so I will probably cancel my order. That was a waste of a week or so. I was looking forward to the hat, but I'm not big on long waits. By that time, winter might be over here in the California desert! Frank

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Email from Sarah at Hornet Hats says Burma felt will be in for Christy's by the end of this month, so I let my order ride. Will post review when it gets here, my Christmas present to me this year...

I am looking forward to seeing it...

 

[gtdean48]

I also just received the "no Burma" email from Sarah. This was only after I emailed an enquiry after reading the above post. I'm a bit sketchy about companies that charge your credit card and then fail to notify you that something you ordered is not available, especially when they don't have a definite date, which they don't. I asked if the Adventurer was in stock in Light Grey or Bessemer, but she did not answer that question, so I will probably cancel my order. That was a waste of a week or so. I was looking forward to the hat, but I'm not big on long waits. By that time, winter might be over here in the California desert! Frank

How about getting charged for a hat already even when they told it was backordered for 6 to 8 weeks? Seems like they could wait to charge me when the order is filled... [huh]

 

[Carlisle Blues]

How about getting charged for a hat already even when they told it was backordered for 6 to 8 weeks? Seems like they could wait to charge me when the order is filled... [huh]

That was the same situation with me...I prepaid ..I did not mind but when I was told another delay I said.............cancel my order please...

 

[Aureliano]

I order my Burma foldaway just a couple of weeks before Carlisle Blues from the fedora store. Duane, the owner, told me at that time that he had 12 in stock. Those seemed to have flown off the shelves![huh]

 

[Carlisle Blues]

^^^
Yes it appears so. I do have to say Duane is a stand up guy......He offered before I asked

 

[gtdean48]

I did ask for a 2 5/8 inch brim so they had to call it in to Christy's. Being a 61 with the wider brim they had go pull a blank for sure.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

^^
Did you go through Fedora Store???

 

[Aureliano]

^^^
Yes it appears so. I do have to say Duane is a stand up guy......He offered before I asked

:arated: wanna hear something cool? I sent an email inquiring about the foldaway. Duane replied with the answer and also, since I have a link to my site under my signature, he visited my webpage. Joking around I said to him, via email too, that I'd trade one of my small pieces for the hat. He said yes. I though he was kidding but he and his wife were serious. In the end it didn't happen as even my small pieces were too large for the space they had in mind. He offered me 20% discount "to support the art" he said!:eusa_clap

 

[gtdean48]

^^
Did you go through Fedora Store???

Hornet Hats...