Christy's of London

[M Hatman]

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I agree with those above!! Simply wonderful find!!!

 

[ItsKarl]

A recent arrival: Christys’ black trilby. The crown is approximately 5 1/8” open and it has considerable taper. The brim is 2 3/8” but the whole vibe of the hat is more of a stingy brim. The brim has lots of cupping and obviously came off an aggressive flange. The felt is average; not terrible, but nothing special. The crown shape has been pressed in and it would take some effort to remove the factory crease. The felt is reasonably dense and not the spongy stuff I dislike so much. The sweat appears to be full-grain leather and while not particularly supple, it looks to be aging well. It’s also brown and lacks the gold stripe both of which I like. The liner is glued in via a continuous glue bead around the entire inside perimeter. The ribbon work is about what you’d expect of an entry level fur felt hat: not great, but mostly functional. There aren’t any labels or markings behind the sweat. While not a feather fan, the one they chose is small and dark and matches the vibe of the hat.

My biggest complaint is the sizing. It’s a 61 cm, 7 1/2 UK, 7 5/8 US. Sounds great for my 7 5/8 US head, but it fits me more like a 7 1/2 US, and not a generous 7 1/2 either. The ribbon doesn’t show any signs that the hat has shrunk and I’m assuming that the blocking was just on the small side.

As it doesn’t fit me, I’ll be looking to move this on to a new home. If you’re a 7 1/2 or a big 7 3/8 send me a PM.

What year is this hat from? I ask because the plastic top in the liner does not suggests vintage, but the faded writing on the sweatband suggests a little bit of use. And I also ask because I now have three Christys, all ordered directly from them this year, and none of them have plastic in the liner. I have a bowler, a homburg and a fedora, and they all have the same red liner.

Actually, the fedora was listed as a trilby (the County Down Brim Trilby), but with a 6,5 cm brim I say it's a fedora.
The felt in the homburg is very soft; the felt in the County feels about the same as that of the Akubra Stylemaster I just acquired - though the brim of the County is remarkably stiff. So stiff that I didn't dare snap it at first (it arrived with the brim down all around). I can snap the back, and it'll look good. If I try to snap the front, however, it'll just snap right back down.

.

I'm new in hats, so I ordered four hats (almost) in one go. I don't know how to distinguish good quality from bad yet, so I can't say that the ribbon work on my Christys (a common complaint against new hats of this brand, from what I can tell on these boards) are appreciably better or worse than that of my Stylemaster. The main complaint I have is all my Christys have synthetic leather sweatbands, which again suggests that your fedora is perhaps not among their most recent models.

I haven't had the chance to test my hats in anything more than a drizzle and tiny bits of snow, and so far it's nothing that has had any effect. I'm mostly curious how my County will stand up. I did see the pictures off E-bay of a County being sold, and it had a horrendously warped brim and battered crown (did not appear to have shrunk, though). It looked like the owner had purposefully tried to make it look like Greengrass's hat in Heartbeat, and I hope that's the explanation - and not that rain alone made it like that.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

What year is this hat from? I ask because the plastic top in the liner does not suggests vintage, but the faded writing on the sweatband suggests a little bit of use. And I also ask because I now have three Christys, all ordered directly from them this year, and none of them have plastic in the liner. I have a bowler, a homburg and a fedora, and they all have the same red liner.

Actually, the fedora was listed as a trilby (the County Down Brim Trilby), but with a 6,5 cm brim I say it's a fedora.
The felt in the homburg is very soft; the felt in the County feels about the same as that of the Akubra Stylemaster I just acquired - though the brim of the County is remarkably stiff. So stiff that I didn't dare snap it at first (it arrived with the brim down all around). I can snap the back, and it'll look good. If I try to snap the front, however, it'll just snap right back down.

.

I'm new in hats, so I ordered four hats (almost) in one go. I don't know how to distinguish good quality from bad yet, so I can't say that the ribbon work on my Christys (a common complaint against new hats of this brand, from what I can tell on these boards) are appreciably better or worse than that of my Stylemaster. The main complaint I have is all my Christys have synthetic leather sweatbands, which again suggests that your fedora is perhaps not among their most recent models.

I haven't had the chance to test my hats in anything more than a drizzle and tiny bits of snow, and so far it's nothing that has had any effect. I'm mostly curious how my County will stand up. I did see the pictures off E-bay of a County being sold, and it had a horrendously warped brim and battered crown (did not appear to have shrunk, though). It looked like the owner had purposefully tried to make it look like Greengrass's hat in Heartbeat, and I hope that's the explanation - and not that rain alone made it like that.

Hello Karl. This was only my second Christys’ so I don’t claim any expertise in them. I’d guess this hat was a modern product made within the last decade or two.

The UK uses the word “trilby” the same as we use the word “fedora.” In The US a trilby is most often a stingy brim and usually a hat of all around smaller dimensions. Not so in the UK; although, they are using the word fedora more over there now than in past decades.

Christys’ has been around a long time and the have sold hats in many price points and quality levels. My foldaway by Christys’ is a nice hat for what it is. My preference for taller crowns with minimal taper, wider (6.5cm at a minimum) brims, and better build quality means I’m looking for older (1900-1960s...preferably 1950s) hats. If I was going to buy a new factory made fedora I don’t think I’d consider Christys’, but that’s just me.


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[Zoukatron]

Karl, the brim of the County is not actually supposed to be snappable. It is supposed to be stiff like a Western or country hat, but Christy's do not otherwise have a suitable section on their website for it. The trilby designation is really not accurate for it.

 

[M Hatman]

Circa 1910 23 pages

More Here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/hatters-cleaners-and-dyers.99090/post-3009358

 

[Rmccamey]

Oh look, I knew we all had one hat of that same model

I suppose the term Mashie is just a little more refined than Beater!

 

[M Hatman]

Oh look, I knew we all had one hat of that same model

I suppose the term Mashie is just a little more refined than Beater!

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Yes just like the torn jeans still sold today, "we beat up your hat so you don't have to".

 

[The Shooman]

There is a Christy's in beaver felt for sale locally. Do they make a high quality hat? Is it worth the $900 price tag? What is comparable quality?

 

[steur]

They do offer a beaver felt hat in their current line-up for €655, so quite a bit less than $900. I was not impressed by the quality of the hats I've seen from them. I suspect $900 can buy you an excellent custom.

 

[M Hatman]

I have three of their hats including an all beaver (their version of the "Poet"). They are OK hats but certainly for the price you can get a MUCH better hat elsewhere..........

 

[The Shooman]

I notice they don't display where they are made, so l suppose they are made cheaply offshore?

Instead of paying 900 asd for a beaver, would it be more worthwhile to pay 400 asd for a rabbit fur fedora? OR, if it is a waste of money maybe l should go custom and get a proper fedora. I don't like cheaply made things,would rather get quality.

The real issue with custom is that l don't know how the hat is going to look on my head until l get it.

 

[belfastboy]

I notice they don't display where they are made, so l suppose they are made cheaply offshore?

Instead of paying 900 asd for a beaver, would it be more worthwhile to pay 400 asd for a rabbit fur fedora? OR, if it is a waste of money maybe l should go custom and get a proper fedora. I don't like cheaply made things,would rather get quality.

The real issue with custom is that l don't know how the hat is going to look on my head until l get it.

As a custom hat maker, I have a bias. If you purchase a custom hat from an established hat maker with a track record the hat will always be superior to any mass produced, off the shelf hat. The felt will likely be better, the trimmings higher quality (usually vintage ribbon and best quality leather sweats). A custom beaver(top quality fur) fedora can be had for under $500, a rabbit for under $400. If you plan to buy a mass produced hat from a hat shop, then go to the shop try on multiple hats to discern your style. Take a picture, or take down the make/model. Any skilled custom hatter can replicate that hat. An experienced custom hatter also has a method of measuring your head size and shape at distance to insure a correct fit. Likely a better fit than an off the shelf hat would provide.

 

[Edward]

The UK uses the word “trilby” the same as we use the word “fedora.” In The US a trilby is most often a stingy brim and usually a hat of all around smaller dimensions. Not so in the UK; although, they are using the word fedora more over there now than in past decades.

Quite so. In the pre-web era when I had my first hat it was referred to universally in the north of Ireland as a trilby. The name originally came from a literary character. George du Maurier's 1894 novel Trilby was about a character of that name, a young lady working in Paris. When the novel was first adapted for the London stage in 1895, the lady cast in the role of Trilby was dressed with a brimmed, soft-felt hat. The play became very popular, enjoying a long run, and along the way the term "Trilby Hat" entered the vernacular to refer to all soft-crowned, brimmed hats as a result. A very similar phenomenon took place in the US - notably drawing from the work of another French writer, this time dramatist Victorien Sardou. his play Fedora was first performed in the US in 1889, and featured actress playing the role of Princess Fédora Romazoff wearing a soft-crowned, brimmed hat. In the US, it hence became commonly known as a Fedora. There was no prescription for what constituted either hat beyond it being soft-crowned and brimmed - all else was a coincidence of fashion and geography. It seems only in the internet era has there been any sort of rising notion that they are two different types of hat. Language, of course, can evolve that way and I'm not an evangelist for preventing that evolution of the meaning of the two words, but all the same I think it is indeed worth remembering that when we do ascribe properties to them as different and distinctive from each other, we're much like those who originally invented the Celts or the Beaker People, looking in from the outside (often at historical distance) and determining the limits of a hat or a culture based on observed phenomenon in a manner that wasn't apparent to folks at the time. For myself, I realise over time I've unconsciously adopted a lot of the American vernacular - a mix of socialisation here and elsewhere, and my particular style influences being somewhat Americanised for various reasons. Older people on the UK still use the term Trilby in the old way, but I think for my generation and younger (I'm just recently turned fifty), the term 'fedora' is probably more meaningful, as trilbies have disappeared as an item of daily wardrobe, becoming something probably most people over here encounter first via (especially screen) American fiction.

The thing that always struck me, though it is so often not recognised, is that whichever term you use, both names refer to a hat that was originally worn by women, and only later adapted into male wardrobe. One of precious view items of wardrobe to cross the gender divide in that direction; the only other one of which I can think, off the top of my head, being the wrist watch.

Oh look, I knew we all had one hat of that same model

I suppose the term Mashie is just a little more refined than Beater!

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It would be something to know the original context of that. I wonder was it a hat designed to look like it had been around the block - maybe pre-broken in felt to feel at once familiar... or could it have been mashable in the sense of something you could pack and travel with easily, like the Foldaway that has been in the Christy's line-up for some decades now? https://www.christys-hats.com/products/foldaway

They do offer a beaver felt hat in their current line-up for €655, so quite a bit less than $900. I was not impressed by the quality of the hats I've seen from them. I suspect $900 can buy you an excellent custom.

Christys are not cheap. They are, in my experience, very serviceable hats (particularly the bowlers and the Homburgs), but inevitably the brand does carry with it something of a premium. Doubtless the cost of English manufacture adds to the end price. The beaver felt examples are nice (I've often found Christys to be as nice as a lot of what the likes of Bates do, though cheaper than them - I suspect a lot of the remaining English hatters source their bodies from the same place),, but definitely pricey. I suspect part of that is paying a premium again for the beaver body, and the lack of economy of scale in what are likely smaller runs. At that sort of price difference, though, I agree, might as well buy custom if you're spending the same sort of money on OTR. I think too a lot comes down to how much value you put on having beaver over rabbit. For my money beaver is lovely and I'd like to add a couple of beaver felt hats to my collection, however for a day to day grab and go hat (as distinct from speccing out a particularly special custom), I personally am not sold on the idea of paying over the odds for beaver when my rabbit hats have always been "just as nice but different".

I notice they don't display where they are made, so l suppose they are made cheaply offshore?

According to their website, "almost all" of their hats are Made in England, using furfelt blanks imported from Portugal. https://www.christys-hats.com/pages/made-in-england English manufacture will certainly push the price up somewhat. I can't say as I've ever placed any value in the simple geographical fact of point of manufacture, though knowing it is (as are other places I've bought hats from) somewhere with stringent H&S rules and other employee protections is a nice thing, plus - depending on where you live - there's the issue of reducing airmiles. Of course there you're as into intangibles as you are with the value of a brand name, so whether those are worth paying a pinch more for is very subjective.

Instead of paying 900 asd for a beaver, would it be more worthwhile to pay 400 asd for a rabbit fur fedora? OR, if it is a waste of money maybe l should go custom and get a proper fedora. I don't like cheaply made things,would rather get quality.

Views will vary on this I'm sure. Speaking for myself I don't lean to the view that beaver is for all practical purposes so much vastly superior to rabbit as simply different; how much you're prepared to pay for the difference will be up to you. I can imagine paying a bit more for the novelty (I do like beaver), but not double, and I'd buy a design of hat I liked better in rabbit over one I liked less in beaver. YMMV.

The real issue with custom is that l don't know how the hat is going to look on my head until l get it.

I hear you on that. True to an extent with any new / unknown quantity in a hat, but there's somewhat more risk with a custom as it's not always as simple as 'return for refund'. Another reason spaces like this are so valuable, with chances being high *someone* round here has some inside knowledge of a named hatter you're considering.

 

[Rmccamey]

The thing that always struck me, though it is so often not recognised, is that whichever term you use, both names refer to a hat that was originally worn by women, and only later adapted into male wardrobe

Has any other hat style gained its name based on where it was worn, i.e., the Derby?

 

[steur]

Has any other hat style gained its name based on where it was worn, i.e., the Derby?

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I think the Ascot fits that description as well.

 

[Edward]

Has any other hat style gained its name based on where it was worn, i.e., the Derby?

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Interesting question. Not many, I think. The Homburg would be one (at least in terms of origin; what we know as a Homburg today is somewhat evolved from the original design). The Alpine / Bavarian / Tyrolean hat, I supposed - though a less well known style outside of theatrical costume or Oktoberfest events other than in the Germanic region of Europe.

Derby's an interesting name too because it's so specifically American in my experience; over here that would very, very rarely be called a Coke (pronounced "Cook".... that one still throws me), but much more commonly a Bowler.

I think the Ascot fits that description as well.

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Definitely in hatter circles, yes. Worn with grey morning dress. If you want to get really technical with the supposed "rules", there was a time (and still I believe are some 'U' circles where it 'matters') when the grey top hat, along with the grey morning coat, was only to be worn at Ascot - and then only if you were a guest of the monarch. I've been in tailors in London where this rule will be repeated as 'advisory' to customers. The full grey morning suit all in matching fabric appeared later on - when Edward VII, then PoW, turned up at Royal Ascot in one, his father was reportedly furious. Morning Dress is still a thing at Royal Ascot; the event overall has a dresscode, but if you are paying to access the pricier areas including the royal circle or whatever it's called, morning dress is obligatory. Again, there's an element of elitism within it still - for instance, there are those who consider a grey top hat to be noveau, gauche, and will continue to wear a black top hat even with a grey morning suit.

The one other traditional I'm aware of with grey is weddings. There was a view at a time that the "rule" was that the groom could wear the less formal grey (either the coat or the full suit) and one of the fathers - from memory the father of the groom(?), but obviously that's gone out the window as morning dress has evolved into a more general "wedding wear", and different styles go in and out of fashion. When my brother got married in 2002, the frock coat had overtaken the morning coat in popularity, and you saw it in most photographs (even if, contrary to popular opinion at the time, it did nothing for those of a smaller and/or rounder stature). Spongebags are less common than they used to be, as a lot of men now seem to fear the traditional stripe, preferring a trouser that matches the jacket. Morning dress - or some fashionable "creative morning dress" variant was very much the norm in my experience in Ireland prior to 2010. From that point on I've seen a real return of the lounge suit that people would remember seeing photos of their grandfathers marrying in, albeit a garment that has significantly raised in relatively formality by this point in history. In Ireland, I've seen a rise in the kilt being worn at weddings - as often tartans chosen for their visual appeal as much as and perceived familiar or geographical links .(There are few tartans associated with Irish names, though in the modern era tartans have been woven and attributed to Irish counties; of course, when adopted by Gaelic revivalists in Ireland from c.1850 onwards, the Irish interpretation of the kilt was a solid colour, not tartan. Saffron is the most traditional option for the Irish kilt. It's seen a little more nowadays, though truly is more common among diaspora traditions which intermix a significant amount of Scottishness into what they hold to be Irish.)