Chinese leather jackets

[Bahabp100]

@unhatted Great jacket and fit. I had the same one with a different label in green.

But I do want to point out about the sizing and shape of the pattern. It's not true that the Chinese brands are made for Chinese bodies and Western brands are made for Western bodies. That's just great marketing move by the Taobao brands. No different than Tobacco companies using doctors as advertisement in the past.

All my Chinese brand jackets that came with P2P in the 23" has 19" shoulder, and 22" P2P has 18" ish shoulder width. Same porportions as all my Western brands. They are just tagged differently and that is the tricky part. Only one jacket below is China brand, rest three are western brands. All have zero drop from chest to bottom hem. Some has a little curve in the middle, some just straight down. All has the same shoulder to P2P ratio.
Can anyone guess which is which?

View attachment 406561
This brings me to write my findings and conclusion and opinion about my Chinese branded jackets. It's basically what my early 5Star experience was. I remember reading a comment here that the Chinese jacket makers are still in the infant stage. That would be the exact description. I pissed away two Aero jackets money on Taobao/Aliexpress/Rebel to only confirm this. But I also did the same with my early 5Stars. There is nothing wrong with patterns. There's nothing wrong with the stitching. But jacket making is far more than just that. It's years and years and years of experience, and failures, and learning from failures. There is no txt book teaching this crap.

I think 5Star has shown the path quite clearly. Instead of copying a copy of a copy. Copy the original (real vintage). Otherwise it will just be me pissing away money again and again. The Chinese jackets are built to last but they will always get purged out of the closet, because there is nothing original or special for me to keep. I went through the same with my early 5stars, and I just went through this again with the Taobao brands.

Copy the vintage. Copy the vintage. Copy the vintage. And become the original.

But I get it. Everyone is just trying to put roof over our heads and dinner on the table. We do what we need to to get by. But the Chinese jacket makers can do so much more, just shift the development process a bit.

I will give Taobao sellers the marketing skills credit though. It's the easiest shopping experience. Just click and done. The problem is their jackets do NOT survive my closet purges. And the main reason has nothing to do with pattern or quality, but with originality.

Copy the original, and some will have tapers, aka low armhole. And in time, by copying the real original, one becomes original.

View attachment 406563

Did you get a 5* CAL LAPD?

 

[unhatted]

@unhatted Great jacket and fit. I had the same one with a different label in green.

But I do want to point out about the sizing and shape of the pattern. It's not true that the Chinese brands are made for Chinese bodies and Western brands are made for Western bodies. That's just great marketing move by the Taobao brands. No different than Tobacco companies using doctors as advertisement in the past.

All my Chinese brand jackets that came with P2P in the 23" has 19" shoulder, and 22" P2P has 18" ish shoulder width. Same porportions as all my Western brands. They are just tagged differently and that is the tricky part. Only one jacket below is China brand, rest three are western brands. All have zero drop from chest to bottom hem. Some has a little curve in the middle, some just straight down. All has the same shoulder to P2P ratio.
Can anyone guess which is which?

View attachment 406561
This brings me to write my findings and conclusion and opinion about my Chinese branded jackets. It's basically what my early 5Star experience was. I remember reading a comment here that the Chinese jacket makers are still in the infant stage. That would be the exact description. I pissed away two Aero jackets money on Taobao/Aliexpress/Rebel to only confirm this. But I also did the same with my early 5Stars. There is nothing wrong with patterns. There's nothing wrong with the stitching. But jacket making is far more than just that. It's years and years and years of experience, and failures, and learning from failures. There is no txt book teaching this crap.

I think 5Star has shown the path quite clearly. Instead of copying a copy of a copy. Copy the original (real vintage). Otherwise it will just be me pissing away money again and again. The Chinese jackets are built to last but they will always get purged out of the closet, because there is nothing original or special for me to keep. I went through the same with my early 5stars, and I just went through this again with the Taobao brands.

Copy the vintage. Copy the vintage. Copy the vintage. And become the original.

But I get it. Everyone is just trying to put roof over our heads and dinner on the table. We do what we need to to get by. But the Chinese jacket makers can do so much more, just shift the development process a bit.

I will give Taobao sellers the marketing skills credit though. It's the easiest shopping experience. Just click and done. The problem is their jackets do NOT survive my closet purges. And the main reason has nothing to do with pattern or quality, but with originality.

Copy the original, and some will have tapers, aka low armhole. And in time, by copying the real original, one becomes original.

View attachment 406563

Thanks! Came across that thread researching Mulholland style jackets - I think you had the Dongshan(?) version. Pretty sure that these are not 100% identical as both brands change different details from the original - note lack of the little metal eyelets at the bottom. I would have gone for the Dongshan if they had a size S in tea core horsehide, but they don't from what I could tell...

You're right that Cidu goes off-script the most - there's two or three versions of the Mulholland all with funky looking back detailing that doesn't really fit with the design. The Cidu I posted earlier with belt loops and adjusters seems to be based off an old Avirex design (which also has fasteners and redundant loops) but with an extra pocket and maybe a bit of SL L01 thrown in at the back for luck!

Awaiting a fairly restrained Cidu J100 variant and I think that may be my Aliexpress leather jacket adventures over for the time being...

 

[unhatted]

Thanks! Came across that thread researching Mulholland style jackets - I think you had the Dongshan(?) version. Pretty sure that these are not 100% identical as both brands change different details from the original - note lack of the little metal eyelets at the bottom. I would have gone for the Dongshan if they had a size S in tea core horsehide, but they don't from what I could tell...

You're right that Cidu goes off-script the most - there's two or three versions of the Mulholland all with funky looking back detailing that doesn't really fit with the design. The Cidu I posted earlier with belt loops and adjusters seems to be based off an old Avirex design (which also has fasteners and redundant loops) but with an extra pocket and maybe a bit of SL L01 thrown in at the back for luck!

Awaiting a fairly restrained Cidu J100 variant and I think that may be my Aliexpress leather jacket adventures over for the time being...

Was wrong in my ID of the double rider jacket being ‘homaged’ - it’s John Varvatos, who I’d never heard of (I know even less about US designers than heritage workwear brands). Seems out of keeping with other models which are generally based on enthusiast and heritage brands. What’s the deal there? Is JV popular in China or is it an OEM = easy to get the patterns type thing?

 

[unhatted]

My Cidu cafe racer arrived so perhaps time for a Chinese Leather Jacket trifecta round up covering 3 styles of jacket, 3 species of hide(!) and 2 manufacturers.

First up we have a sheepskin (lambskin? Is this a translation thing?) double rider from Cidu. This appears to be a slightly simplified (1 adjuster per side instead of two) copy of a John Varvatos fashion jacket in (claimed) 1.0 black sheepskin. I have no way of verifying thickness or animal but it seems more robust than the fashion Schott I once owned. On paper the measurements of this size S are the smallest but I think it fits a little large on me - this may be because the leather is softer/stretchier or the measurements may just be erratic. It smelled pretty ok on receipt, a mild leather smell with maybe a hint of chemicals. I bought it as an affordable alternative to the kind of minimalist double riders offered by the oft derided ToJ/Falcon (which I have a guilty fondness for - I think I can rock a fashion DR with more conviction than a ‘proper’ one TBH). It may not be a keeper due to feeling a tad too big and making me feel a bit like a kid in his dad’s jacket (I am 37).





Secondly, the horsehide single rider from Simons. This was the costliest of the bunch and IMO the nicest. It’s obviously a slightly altered copy of the FW Mulholland in (claimed) veg tanned Italian(!) tea core horsehide with a wool-mix herringbone lining. It had plenty of brown visible new so maybe tea core isn’t quite right! After a few wears it’s breaking in nicely and can stand up by itself in my shape. This smelled the best in arrival, just very leathery! This fits nicely despite having larger measurements than the others.





Finally, a cowhide cafe-racer from Cidu. This was the cheapest one, sold as a ‘defect clearance’ item. As far as I can see that means that the leather has exceptionally scrotumy grain in places. Of course, that is not necessarily a bad thing. What was not advertised is that this is also tea core, which was an unexpected bonus - unlike the Simons this is black with only the faintest hint of brown at present (in the right light). This appears to be a slightly altered combination of the FCL Richard, Schott 641xx and pockets. Sadly the promised Universal zippers are in fact Schott branded, which is a shame, but maybe that is the defect! This smelled the worst and most chemically on receipt, and has a slightly oily/waxy feel to it, with a weird sheen in photos (but not in life). Collar is maybe a bit small for my taste but it fits well.









I think that might be it for me. I’m slightly tempted by two more Simons DR jackets as a possible replacement for the Cidu DR - their tea core calfskin copy of Addict’s copy of the Lewis 391 and their tea core horsehide copy of FCL’s copy of the Schott 618 but I suspect that both might be a bit macho for me - the sleeves of the 618 in particular seem designed to accommodate serious biceps?!





As an aside, I have been replacing some worn out jeans and thinking about an affordable raw denim type 2 and clicking around on Ali - perhaps time for a Chinese denim thread?

 

[Leigh H]

“scrotumy grain” lol

 

[Edward]

My Cidu cafe racer arrived so perhaps time for a Chinese Leather Jacket trifecta round up covering 3 styles of jacket, 3 species of hide(!) and 2 manufacturers.

First up we have a sheepskin (lambskin? Is this a translation thing?)

Could be either. Lambskin is very flimsy - popular in fast-fashion stuff particularly as it's very light and easy to sew (compared to heavier hides that need different machinery). Some makers do use sheepskin, though - as in hide taken from an adult sheep. This is still a bit soft for my tastes (particularly for an mc style of jacket), but wears well. It's a popular option for Lewis, and a very traditional one for British motorcycle jackets of the sixties and earlier. I always fear it to be fragile, though I've handled a fair few 1960s and 70s Lewises that were still holding up well by the early 2000s, so...

I think that might be it for me. I’m slightly tempted by two more Simons DR jackets as a possible replacement for the Cidu DR - their tea core calfskin copy of Addict’s copy of the Lewis 391 and their tea core horsehide copy of FCL’s copy of the Schott 618 but I suspect that both might be a bit macho for me - the sleeves of the 618 in particular seem designed to accommodate serious biceps?!





As an aside, I have been replacing some worn out jeans and thinking about an affordable raw denim type 2 and clicking around on Ali - perhaps time for a Chinese denim thread?

That Lewisalike looks nice. The bottom one looks a touch long in the body, but it may just be the lack of belt and it lying flat like that.... Be interesting to see these in person. I should be back in Beijing all being well in April, for the first time since 2019 - would love to know if anyone is aware of somewhere there that sells this stuff. I've not yet been able to locate it....

 

[Fifty150]

My father actually bought a leather jacket when he just started to work (1990s) I am almost 30 kgs heavier than my father but the jacket is still quite loose on me! That time oversize fit must be something trendy.

I remember that decade. I don't think "oversized" was a fit trend. But clothes were made with enough room to move around, carry things in the pockets, and generally not feel skin tight. It was right around that time that jeans were sold with "loose fit", "baggy fit", "relaxed fit", etc. Up until then, the most popular style of jeans was Levi's 501. I still wear Levi's 501 jeans.

Since the genuine love of leather jackets from my father's even my grandfather's generation,

Here in Chinatown, going back many generations before me, Chinese Americans have worn leather. Just like microclimates for weather, the story is unique and very much different than why other people wore leather.

San Francisco was a manufacturing town. Many Chinese worked at garment factories. From operating sewing machines, to cutting patterns, to driving forklifts and trucks. Some even owned small businesses, subcontracting work from larger manufacturers. Everyone had a family member or friend who was involved in the garment trade. Before the days of the internet, a "friends and family" discount was being able to go to the factory, and buy clothes off the dock. We would get a significant discount on the overstock and irregular items. No matter what else may have been fashionable at the time - we wore Levi's and leather jackets.

 

[KBlake]

Hi folks,

Picked up this “Simons” jacket on AliExpress for around $320. It’s supposedly horsehide. The hide is stiff, thin and not grainy. It should break in nicely though.

The question is, should I keep it or return it? It’s a repro of a schott and the hardware and build quality are on par. I think it looks pretty good but I’m on the fence.

Thanks!

 

[TREEMAN]

Return…

 

[KBlake]

Return…

Can you elaborate?

 

[TREEMAN]

Yes…. The sleeves are too short.

 

[KBlake]

Yes…. The sleeves are too short.

Very slightly. Not so much to be objectively wrong imo

 

[TREEMAN]

Enjoy your new jacket…

 

[KBlake]

Enjoy your new jacket…

You seem fun.

 

[Peacoat]

Yes…. The sleeves are too short.

Agreed. And Hoosier Daddy would agree as well if he were still with us.

 

[KBlake]

Agreed. And Hoosier Daddy would agree as well if he were still with us.

@ton312 gave me the thumbs up on it so there’s no consensus here. I think the fit is pretty good. A half inch more in the sleeves would be ideal but they aren’t “too short.” Within acceptable range despite being a bit short, I would say. Close call here.

 

[Will Zach]

It is a very personal call. This sleeve length would drive me bonkers if it was my jacket, but I can see how it can be okay for some. For me, the sleeve must rest at the base of my thumb, and must be narrow. Anything else and I am not happy. Too bad we cannot have a poll in an individual post, only a thread....

 

[ton312]

I do think it looks good! I've worn sleeves this short (of course I do prefer them slightly longer). I sold this otherwise beautiful LW on account of the sleeve length but in retrospect, I probably should've given it more time

 

[KBlake]

It is a very personal call. This sleeve length would drive me bonkers if it was my jacket, but I can see how it can be okay for some. For me, the sleeve must rest at the base of my thumb, and must be narrow. Anything else and I am not happy. Too bad we cannot have a poll in an individual post, only a thread....

Thank you for your input. There are some situations when half an inch goes a long way…

….that’s what she said.

 

[Peacoat]

I have long arms, as did Van, so we are sensitive to short sleeves. Someone who didn't grow up worrying about sleeve length may not have a problem with what we consider as sleeves too short.