Censorship at Fedora Lounge

[Spitfire]

I am a bit disturbed to find that several of my posts have been removed. Without explanation to me - or to anybody else in here.
I am talking about posts in the thread about "concealed weapons" - but it has also happened before that.

I also find it quite strange - and disturbing - that this forum allows members to show their deep fascination with guns, rifles and what have you - but as soon as somebody talks against that, they are censored.
There are - at least - two huge threads dealing with firearms - but not one post dealing with the stupidity of firearms. Or talking against the trigger happy fascination. They are removed.

If I am the only person in here who wonders about this, I'll just leave.
If I am not - I think this forum and it's bartenders needs to explain themselves.

Thank you.

 

[Paul Roerich]

You are not alone.

 

[ButteMT61]

Censorship is their prerogative. They own the joint, they make the rules. It really is that simple. Sure, they could let people know why they remove posts - it actually helps to curb behavior more than just deleting - but they're not in any way required to do so.We're here at their whims. Talking about "the stupidity of firearms" is a political topic, and those simply don't live long here. Everyone knows that. OTOH, there are plenty of places one can argue both sides of that coin on the internet.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

I am a bit disturbed to find that several of my posts have been removed. Without explanation to me - or to anybody else in here.
I am talking about posts in the thread about "concealed weapons" - but it has also happened before that.

I also find it quite strange - and disturbing - that this forum allows members to show their deep fascination with guns, rifles and what have you - but as soon as somebody talks against that, they are censored.
There are - at least - two huge threads dealing with firearms - but not one post dealing with the stupidity of firearms. Or talking against the trigger happy fascination. They are removed.

If I am the only person in here who wonders about this, I'll just leave.
If I am not - I think this forum and it's bartenders needs to explain themselves.

Thank you.

I feel the same way when they close the heavy metal threads. You get used to it.

 

[Rudie]

You're not alone, Spitfire.

Talking about "the stupidity of firearms" is a political topic, and those simply don't live long here. Everyone knows that. OTOH, there are plenty of places one can argue both sides of that coin on the internet.

One could argue that expressing one's fascination with firearms is also a political statement. I personally find the tendency to glorify violence and weapons very disturbing. Yet it seems to be an integral part of the national identity of many US Americans.

 

[Paul Roerich]

This joint is a platform with housekeeping included. We don't pay a penny for it, but the owner and advertisers do. If Loungers really wanted to have a say in the way things are run, they would have volunteered to pay a subscription fee for access, or to pay a monthly "donation" at least. That hasn't happened, and it probably never will.

Unless you're running the joint, you have only three choices: buy it from the owner and run it as you please; resign yourself to the way it is; or leave. No one has chosen the first option; many have chosen the second; and many have chosen the third.

Even if you wish to, you cannot change the zeitgeist of this joint. All you can do is provide content within its parameters.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I may not agree with posts being deleted without explanation...at least by PM. However...it seems like any thread about guns...or even if guns are just mentioned..never fails to bring argument or debate that can result in taking over a thread with a 'protest against' that can result only in heated anger rather than what the OP originally had in mind. Otherwise..falls into another 'hot' topic area for some. I would say maybe a cultural thing in a way..but yet there seems to be two camps on the subject. Perhaps a thread about the 'stupidity' of firearms...or 'trigger happy fascination' would better allow for that specific discussion..rather than inserting it into a thread about actually something else. Here in the U.S. there are many who see absolutely nothing wrong with gun ownership or self protection and consider it a 'right' with no need to explain or argue about it on every drop of the word 'gun'. Others see it differently as stupid..or as a completely un-necessary macho attitude that must always be challenged. There seems to be no happy medium. So what do the Mods do? Allow it to become another angerfest..or keep the discussion more on topic such as..'Vintage concealed carry'..'show us your guns'...or whatever.
HD

 

[scotrace]

As in the Ladies with Cigarettes thread. It's about ladies with smokes. Not about the dangers of smoking. Show Us Your Guns is about showing collections. Not about debating the pros and cons.

In both instances, the latter is political talk. If speech promoting shooting people is allowed to remain, please tell a bartender so it can be removed.

Also, there is a cultural divide at work. In small town Ohio, USA, a guy might have a pistol in his house for whatever reason. In Denmark, not so much. In the USA it's fairly normal (though hotly debated). In most of Europe, not normal, or even possible.

We aren't silencing speech. We're disallowing political debate on hot issues. Same as we don't allow you to show a breast.

 

[Paul Roerich]

Same as we don't allow you to show a breast.

Shucks, it isn't as prohibitive as all that. Male breasts are allowed, though man-boobs of a certain girth are discouraged (and rightly so).

 

[RBH]

Shucks, it isn't as prohibitive as all that. Male breasts are allowed, though man-boobs of a certain girth are discouraged (and rightly so).

Dang Marc.. you take the cake every time.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

But hey..showing a breast has nothing to do with politics.
Could be a 'hot' topic though...

 

[alsendk]

I had that experience last week, to have a drawing deleted from.....a Zippo site called: flash your Zippo.
In my shildish mind it was a funny and very innocent picture of Hilary Clinton holding a Zippo ligher as a.....gun.
On the Zippo lighter was written: Obama care, and fire was coming out of the Zippo Chimney.

This picture/drawing was deleted without any trace of explanation.
I simply cannot understand the reason for doing this?
You can show your weapon collection here, that could feed an army.....how can a funny picture/drawing like this ever become a threat to anyboody here?
I feel so disoriented about such an innocent issue has become a must to avoid.

 

[LizzieMaine]

We're in the middle of an election cycle here, and the words "Obama care" are political triggers. There's no need to be bringing any of that sort of thing here, there's hundreds of other forums on the net for that type of discussion, and we don't want it here. Simple as that. We have a thread in the PR about wearing vintage fur, and the rule is laid out -- no discussion of fur as a political issue, period. Any posts defying that rule *will* be deleted without notice. Don't like it? Go somewhere else and talk about the politics of fur to your heart's content. But you won't discuss it here. Simple as that. The same kind of rule can be applied to similar threads -- smoking, guns, whatever.

And if one doesn't like the subject of a thread, stay out of it and leave it alone. How simple does it have to be?

 

[alsendk]

I`ve just read your message Lizzie Maine, and if you find it simple as that, I have no reason to argue against you.

 

[RBH]

...And if one doesn't like the subject of a thread, stay out of it and leave it alone. How simple does it have to be?

Cant be any plainer than that.

 

[randooch]

Cant be any plainer than that.

Good pun: "cant."

 

[ButteMT61]

You're not alone, Spitfire.One could argue that expressing one's fascination with firearms is also a political statement. I personally find the tendency to glorify violence and weapons very disturbing. Yet it seems to be an integral part of the national identity of many US Americans.

I don't consider (all things being equal) that owning/collecting guns means one is obsessed with the use of or the politics of them. I collect a lot of things, and I see them as objects with history, not a form of statement. I have not seen threads where members here are proudly showing off guns like a gangbanger or a drug lord meant to intimidate the average human. I see pictures of guns - many of historical value - not unlike lighters, jackets, hats, tools, etc. That fact that guns are by nature a political topic doesn't make collecting them indicative of a lunatic. In the end, the joint ain't changing, and there are places where one can discuss/debate/b*tch all they like about such things. I sorta like having a place that doesn't degrade into some sanctimonious/pompous *ss getting in people's faces over guns, furs, memorabilia, etc. Not saying YOU do, but you get my point...

 

[alsendk]

I don't consider (all things being equal) that owning/collecting guns means one is obsessed with the use of or the politics of them. I collect a lot of things, and I see them as objects with history, not a form of statement. I have not seen threads where members here are proudly showing off guns like a gangbanger or a drug lord meant to intimidate the average human. I see pictures of guns - many of historical value - not unlike lighters, jackets, hats, tools, etc. That fact that guns are by nature a political topic doesn't make collecting them indicative of a lunatic. In the end, the joint ain't changing, and there are places where one can discuss/debate/b*tch all they like about such things. I sorta like having a place that doesn't degrade into some sanctimonious/pompous *ss getting in people's faces over guns, furs, memorabilia, etc. Not saying YOU do, but you get my point...

Butte, of course it will not make a collector of arms a murder, just by collecting these things.

But these terrible shootdowns still takes place...example like shooting down school kids, often done by a kid himself, shows how dangerous a liberal weapon law can lead to tragic incidents, and there have been so many of these incidents in specificly countries with a liberal weapon law, making it everybodys right to protect himself. This right to arm one self very often goes very wrong when angry people arms themselves to go to war in the schoolyard, or sniping innocent people shopping at the local mart.
Having Norway in mind, I know this can happen anywhere in the world, but a prohibition against firearms will always make it harder for the wrong people to get access to real dangerous weapons.

I know that I sound like a chicken, but actually I have served for 6 years as a senior sergent in the danish airforce once, and I served as a weapons instructor, and have some expertice in these matters, and know how much harm firearms can accomplish in the wrong hands, and I am truly happy about the very strict weapon law we have here.
Finding a firearm in the possession of a danish citizen automatically gives one year in the slammer, and three month for possessing a knive with a blade longer than 7 cm (2,8inches)
And exept from Norway we haven`t yet had these terrible incidents here, hoping it will never come.

I am expecting my thread to be deleted Butte, so you might never see this.
Greetings
Allan

 

[HoosierDaddy]

See...never fails...another gun debate.
BTW..since you're all fired up...I completely disagree with you...and I was a Drill Sgt during war time..as if that makes any damn difference.
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

Hopefully Allan, we can talk here for a bit before the carnage of letters.
You're no chicken. But tragedy takes place in many ways. Alcohol, texting while driving, explosives devised from cheap chemicals, meth, and on and on. People will always find ways to kill other people. We've been doing it for a long time. None of those things IMHO should prevent someone from posting pics of their antique guns here. Nobody will change anyone's mind either way. It just won't ever happen. So debating it here will only make the place less attractive to many if not most. It's a respite from the crap that's on 99% of the web. I need a break. I want to talk about all the things here we enjoy. Things I don't, I skip. Simple and effective.

Cheers friend.