Censorship at Fedora Lounge

[Son_of_Atropos]

I am a little torn here. I am an American, I am a firearms owner, and fairly avid hunter (hence my name...). I would not consider myself a “gunnut” in the conventional sense (I am not waiting with 6 machine guns for when the black helecopters from the UN come get me, etc.). I have many, many European friends who also own firearms and are not much different than myself. I go hunting myself in Europe most years.

However, I make a conscious decision on my part to avoid doing much involving firearms on this forum because I do not feel this what the bulk of this forum is about. I can go to a firearms or hunting forum and talk about those things there. I also know there are people here who are bothered by firearms or hunting so I do not post or comment on much on those topics. I come here (like many I think) to talk about clothes and other things from the 1920s-50s.

However, there are many aspects about the “Golden Era” on this forum that do interest people that I have no interest in: leather jackets, Nazi militaria, some of the really fine details on hat construction, collecting old records, our endless threads on “why today/people/things etc today are bad”, etc. However, it does not really bother me if people talk about those things so I just do not go to those threads. I am not sure why people who do not like firearms cannot simply not look at those threads? Provided we keep the firearms stuff to their proper threads and I think the mods do a good job at that (I am thinking of some of our adventurer gear threads that Scotrace did a good job keeping in line).

Just my thoughts.

End thread. Great response.

 

[kiwilrdg]

I love guns and I do have a lot of guns but I really do not see why modern guns are brought up as much as they are here.
I log on to discuss golden era things. I really think we should just try to keep the gun discussions more in line with the way guns were carried rather than if the guns of today should be carried. The first is a matter of facts and the second is a matter of politics (and choice in some areas).

 

[alsendk]

Reading this thread gives me a very clear notion/understanding about, that people from the old world - Europe share a different wiew about the possessing of weapons, concealed or not.
This issue about weapons in the US is something I will never come to terms with, so I will heed the advice, told me last night....by no less than three bartenders, to stop arguing against your federal right to carry arms.

Some of you gents here on this thread, I have had very good - and enriching conversations with, about Irvin jackets...and a lot of other stuff, and I have coming to know you as funny and witty loungers, so happily I know some of you from another side too.

By making my statements here about arms, I did not have any intention to intimidate...or hurt anybodys feelings. I do realize that this issue is a minefield to tread for a european citizen, and I want to thank you all...also bartender Lizzie Maine, for making things very clear to me.

Do have a nice day
Allan

 

[bulldog1935]

I led a thread in the Great Outdoors showing vintage bait fishing tackle that had 56 views and no replies.
I guess a Shimano reel would be out of place there.

As far as the title of this thread goes, I'm a moderator on other boards, and am never bothered if the people who let us play here want to remove one of my posts.

I also believe the people who imagine fascination with firearms are projecting. The fascination is their own. Firearms owners for the most part consider them a tool that comes with responsibilities.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Apart from the guns I find some discussions here highly political and just because they are "golden era" topics the bartenders claim they are OK. Just like chasseur said:

However, there are many aspects about the “Golden Era” on this forum that do interest people that I have no interest in: leather jackets, Nazi militaria, some of the really fine details on hat construction, collecting old records, our endless threads on “why today/people/things etc today are bad”, etc.

With the difference that it sometimes bothers me. It is the threads that beat down on all things modern. Rather than be advised to "just don't look at them if you don't agree" I would like to follow others "just don't write them" because they ARE political. In comparsion: To delete the thread about "gay codes" was a mistake. We didn't judge gays or discussed pro or anti gay marriage (yes, election time in the US, I know). We just mentioned that "gay interest" is used as an selling point on ebay. Everybody who partcipated in this thread was very well mannered and polite. There certainly was no hate -speech. So deleting it was more of a polictial statement then let it stay. But like Paul Roerich said:

This joint is a platform with housekeeping included. We don't pay a penny for it, but the owner and advertisers do. If Loungers really wanted to have a say in the way things are run, they would have volunteered to pay a subscription fee for access, or to pay a monthly "donation" at least. That hasn't happened, and it probably never will.

Unless you're running the joint, you have only three choices: buy it from the owner and run it as you please; resign yourself to the way it is; or leave. No one has chosen the first option; many have chosen the second; and many have chosen the third.

Even if you wish to, you cannot change the zeitgeist of this joint. All you can do is provide content within its parameters.

Yes. That's true too.

 

[kiwilrdg]

The moderators do a good job and I know it is a difficult job. There is a multitude of dark topics that could be brought up and discussed on the boards that could put this whole board into a tailspin.

I like the good things about the golder era but I also realize that there is more than meets the eye. With the period politics, crime, violence, abuse, discrimination, genocide, etc. I can see why the moderators walk a thin line and sometimes make decisions that I do not agree with.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'll repeat something here I said in another thread: in the end, this is just a message board. It's a place where people come to shoot the breeze, and if they find themselves in a conversation they aren't enjoying, the thing to do is shut off the computer and go do something else. To insist that people shouldn't have conversations that they themselves wouldn't enjoy is like walking out on the sidewalk and saying "HEY ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT THINGS I HATE: SHUT UP!"

 

[Spitfire]

LizzieMaine - I aint telling people to shut up. Merely wondering what modern firearms - hidden or not - has to do here.
I thought it was a place for polite conversation on differences in culture and behavior - obviously I was wrong. And censored.
And if this is a merely a message board - here's my message then: Goodbye. You made it very clear.

 

[casechopper]

Hi Spitfire, I'd hate for you to go as I've enjoyed some of your posts that I've read.

I think the main idea with some modern guns and other modern things that show up on the forum is that they are objects being discussed. The same as a vintage hat or a modern cowboy hat can be discussed and (at least in my opinion) are appropriate for this forum. Guns are physical objects that have a place in the past and present. Discussing them as the objects they are isn't political and won't cause a huge argument. Discussing laws on guns and ethics of guns will start a huge fight and isn't what this forum is about. There may be other topics here on the forum that really should be classified as political as well but why worry about it? Why is it so important to discuss certain subjects on this forum when those same subjects can be discussed in thousands of other places? This forum is a great place for discussing a narrow range of topics. Enjoy those topics here and discuss non-TFL friendly topics on other forums.

Side note, I think TFL is a bit harsh in its censorship and if I were running it I would censor much less but I don't run it so I let those that do handle these decisions.

 

[gtdean48]

Like a real lounge, things go on in virtual lounges that are not of interest to me. I don't go over to the folks throwing darts & question why they are so interested in throwing darts when I don't see the enthusiasm of dart throwing...I see threads & read threads in this Lounge that I don't post to because I don't align with the topic of the thread....Now if you were to speak up about the topic not adhering to the time period that is a different issue. Modern anachronisms creep in all the time... I just go all in when a historical icon is exploited for current financial gain....

 

[Spitfire]

Casechopper, I am not sure I'll be leaving the lounge - but I am definitely leaving this thread.
And I might stick my nose in now and again in the very few threads that actually gives me anything.
Or where I am allowed to speak about things, I happen to know about.
See you around. Some time.

 

[Paul Roerich]

Yes, I remember starting a thread a while back on Evil Psychiatry which was closed down.

Are you by any chance a Scientologist, V.C.?

 

[MisterCairo]

Well said. It's a right we possess by law in this country which is greatly misunderstood by citizens of countries without similar rights. It is the main reason I think, that this country has never been invaded by a hostile army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington

 

[ButteMT61]

See, you own a gun and support the right to do so, then come the "NASCAR, Cheez Whiz, gun nut" comments. With that, you're not to be taken seriously. Whilst there is nothing wrong with those things (sans nut) it's insulting and juvenile. Many gun owners are anything but. Like all things, the media has skewed perspective of gun owners as stupid rednecks.
If you choose not to own guns, that's your prerogative. I do. I enjoy them and they were my grandfather's. I don't have them to lock myself up and protect my castle, but if need be, I can. 90% of the ammo I own is blanks for reenactment.
As to comparing us to France or Germany in WWII era, that doesn't hold today. We have the ability to gather digitally and fight with communication that didn't exist in 1942. Look at how the likes of Facebook and twitter have revolutionized protests around the world. People even in remote locales can now organize. The governments should fear this, and if you add an armed society to the mix, I feel less likely to be run over.
There's lots of things I "don't get" about other cultures - I don't post online about how I think they're stupid. I'd like that in return. America bashing is all the rage. I don't want it here please.

 

[Undertow]

Something I haven't seen mentioned (and just to throw my fedora into sinking ship before the doors are closed)...

There are some of us who enjoy firearms for their aesthetic and technical aspects, just as one might find the construction of a leather jacket appealing, or the intricacies of a well-made bespoke pair of shoes. Or for instance, one might find a 1985 Yugo absolutely fascinating, regardless of how the perceived value and necessity of a Yugo might be.

I know when I hold a S&W .357 Magnum, the very last thing I think about is shooting someone. That's just dreadful. I don't think about wars, or violence, or attacking people, or any of that rot. I run my eyes over the polished steel, I work the trigger and hammer to watch the delicate timing of the revolving cylinder, I examine the handle and bore, and rifling, etc. When I fire the gun, I'm fascinated by the velocities, the powder charges, the bullet weights, all of that business. I enjoy reading and studying trajectories, ballistics, etc. It's an engineering thing - and that's saying something coming from a Literature major who wrote for newspapers!

And just as guns kill people and are responsible for all manners of dreadful things, so too are airplanes, and tanks, and jeeps. Soldiers clothed in uniforms and boots have marched all over the world. But are we pining over the evil wool socks that carried [x] army to attack [x] country? No, and for good reason.

Spitfire, I'd hate to see you go, or even fade away. The Lounge needs enthusiasts like yourself. Stick around! I'd buy you a drink but I'm low on Bitcoins.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Are you by any chance a Scientologist, V.C.?

No, I'm not. But even though I think Scientology is a load of nonsense, their view of psychiatry is the one thing that I actually agree with them on. I'll just leave it at that considering what happened last time. lol

 

[Paul Roerich]

No, I'm not. But even though I think Scientology is a load of nonsense, their view of psychiatry is the one thing that I actually agree with them on.

Got it now. Thanks!

 

[Two Types]

See, you own a gun and support the right to do so, then come the "NASCAR, Cheez Whiz, gun nut" comments.

There's lots of things I "don't get" about other cultures - I don't post online about how I think they're stupid. I'd like that in return. America bashing is all the rage. I don't want it here please.

I don't think the comments you refer to were intended as 'America bashing'. Instead I believe they were simply intended to convey the vast cultural differences that have grown between the USA and Europe.
I am amazed by the defensive tone being taken by those protecting their right to discuss guns on this forum. There is a vast difference between attacking those views and questioning them.
I, for one, have never fired a gun in my life. Indeed, I have never even held a live firearm. And probably never will. I neither attack the notion of widespread gun ownership nor care to comment. It's not really my business. But, I must stress, I suspect many of the European loungers are shocked by the defensive attitude to a point that I don't really have much of an opinion on.

PS. I agree about the cultural difference meaning we don't understand NASCAR. Isn't it just people driving around in circles? I can see that at a roundabout.
PPS. Don't feel offended - I hate Formula 1 as well.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The way this thread has gone on and on for six pages while accomplishing absolutely nothing and stirring up all sorts of ill feeling on both sides of the ocean is the best testimony yet to why we don't want such discussions on the Lounge. Think about it.

As for guns, I own one. I have my reasons for owning one, I owe nobody an explanation for it outside of the proper authorites, and have no interest whatsoever in any other person's opinion of my decision to own one. It's between me, myself, and I, and nobody else. Period. I have no interest in discussing the topic here, so I don't.

And while I have only the barest knowledge of what "Nascar" is, I love Cheez Whiz. Melt it, add some cayenne pepper, and pour it on a steak sandwich, and that's some good eatin'.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I would like to chime in about some needed "censorship." I would love to see thread hijacking put to a stop. I understand that a thread will lead to little side discussions, but too many threads are driven off of a cliff.