Can someone please help me find this type of leather jacket?

[Formeruser012524]

As far as I understand you joined this forum to get help getting an oversized jacket as accurate as possible as that X-files episode you mentioned. You were also aware that your love for oversized jackets might seem weird and were expecting to be ridiculed from the beginning if I remember correctly.

You still got far more help then you expected, overthought the whole process until you finally ordered the jacket and are happy with what you have seen so far.

And now you worry that some of us might dictate what the correct fit is.

Did I read this correctly?

If I did read correctly, I will say this:

- Yes, it is unusual that someone wants oversized jacket. There are certain guidelines for fit, and some people obsess over the "perfect" fit. But then again, different people like different fits. So as long as you are happy with your fit, isn't that the most important?

- People over here tend to have a dislike of fashion brands, the consensus being that you are generally paying too much for the brand and not necessarilty getting a good quality product. But some members have showed us that you can get excellent products from fashion brands, but it is a matter of really knowing what to look for. @Marc mndt comments were an example of what to look for in terms of construction. In short, the quality of the products of thesebrands is variable and you are still paying for the name.

You sum it best here



This is the most important advice one can give.

But this doesn't get in the way of understanding the different types of jackets, what makes for good or bad construction, the variety of leathers available and their characteristics, etc.
After all it was thanks to knowledgeable people especially @Monitor that you were able to get your jacket made.

The more time you spend here - if you decide to do so - the more you will understand this hobby and it will likely lead to an evolution in your taste. I have seen many forum members - myself included - wear jackets that they never thought they could pull off or that they disliked at first. This is the fun part!

That's quite a thoughtful post. I really don't have an issue with anything you wrote there. I am, indeed, becoming more interested in how leather jackets literally work. Interested in what the function of certain seams are, why some sleeves consist of three panels instead of two, the differences in action back, semi full, gussets, epaulette styles, collars, leather types itself, etc. etc., but yeah, my main focus you were totally right on, it was to reproduce an unusual oversized jacket and feel comfortable in it.

And speaking of the shoulders... although I do love wider shoulders, in this repro I tried not to make them ultra wide like the original, although they should still be quite wide. The one on the series is a bit overkill, with the shoulder seams almost down to the bicep in certain shots. So I tried to reduce that but still keep it wide. I'll see what needs to be adjusted when I get to the 2nd version of it eventually.

 

[Formeruser012524]

FWIW, I've already decided on the next jacket I'll be reproducing, but it won't be before fall 2022 at the earliest, because warmer days are coming in a month or two, and I'll also need to get that 2nd version of the current one as well.

Either way, here is my next project, although I probably won't share it here (if I even stay), because it would be against forum rules, seeing how there's absolutely nothing vintage about this one:

 

[Canuck Panda]

I am late to this party. No intention to crash it. Just a quick observation after reading all the past post.

@Zangy003 Have you tried simply upsizing? Like instead of going full custom, try say two sizes up?

When I was a kid, all I wore were baggy clothing. Not because I wanted to. But my mom only bought me what was on sale and told me it's fine that I'd grow into them. Which was actually not ok because there was a period in my life where I literally grew into clothes that were two sizes too big which had major impact on my health.

Anyways. My office is located next to three schools, and that's how all the kids are rolling these days. Wearing linebacker sized clothing. The snobby rich kids would wear the designer label ones where they went one step further to give it a bit taper at the wrist and torso hem to make it look "intended". The regular kids just did it how I did it, just wore what was given. Some must also found creative use of safety pins like I did.

What I am trying to say is that in my experience, skin tight tailored clothes cost more money. Relax fitting can be had with a simple upsize trick and if you want the designer look you could tailor it where you'd like at the local tailor/dry cleaner. There is no need to spend more for what you can get for less.

FWIW, I am sized between a US medium and US Large. So I wear both sizes regularly. One slim fit look one relax fit look. If I were trying to get my 90s look I would simply go up two sizes and wear XL, and pay 20 bucks more and my dry cleaner bring in the wrist and hem for me so it looks "intended". Just food for thoughts. Hobby cost money. There is no need to pay more when you can pay less.

 

[Formeruser012524]

I am late to this party. No intention to crash it. Just a quick observation after reading all the past post.

@Zangy003 Have you tried simply upsizing? Like instead of going full custom, try say two sizes up?

When I was a kid, all I wore were baggy clothing. Not because I wanted to. But my mom only bought me what was on sale and told me it's fine that I'd grow into them. Which was actually not ok because there was a period in my life where I literally grew into clothes that were two sizes too big which had major impact on my health.

Anyways. My office is located next to three schools, and that's how all the kids are rolling these days. Wearing linebacker sized clothing. The snobby rich kids would wear the designer label ones where they went one step further to give it a bit taper at the wrist and torso hem to make it look "intended". The regular kids just did it how I did it, just wore what was given. Some must also found creative use of safety pins like I did.

What I am trying to say is that in my experience, skin tight tailored clothes cost more money. Relax fitting can be had with a simple upsize trick and if you want the designer look you could tailor it where you'd like at the local tailor/dry cleaner. There is no need to spend more for what you can get for less.

FWIW, I am sized between a US medium and US Large. So I wear both sizes regularly. One slim fit look one relax fit look. If I were trying to get my 90s look I would simply go up two sizes and wear XL, and pay 20 bucks more and my dry cleaner bring in the wrist and hem for me so it looks "intended". Just food for thoughts. Hobby cost money. There is no need to pay more when you can pay less.

You're talking about the Kanye jacket I just posted, right? Because what you're saying would not work on the original one of this thread, for various reasons. First because it's already finished, and second because all adjustments of the 2nd version will be done by the original maker of the first one. But I'm assuming you're talking about this Kanye black jacket?

 

[Aloysius]

Because 5* and 'Highest quality designer jackets' are worlds apart, I commented that they're selling it on you.

View attachment 406427

I understood your point. Just wanted to clarify that I am in the Five Star discussion group and they have never themselves claimed on there to be putting out “high end designer products”. They did attend several trade fairs with the leather and garment industry in Italy, to help build relationships and perhaps for future plans, but I am sure if you asked Shawn “Is your jacket the same as this $5000 RLPL?,” he’s not going to say yes. When I dealt with him last year, to commission a jacket as a gift, he struck me as a very honest guy.

I think Zang perhaps misinterpreted Five Star’s attendance at those shows as them making a claim, which they are not.

 

[Hh121]

FWIW, I've already decided on the next jacket I'll be reproducing, but it won't be before fall 2022 at the earliest, because warmer days are coming in a month or two, and I'll also need to get that 2nd version of the current one as well.

Either way, here is my next project, although I probably won't share it here (if I even stay), because it would be against forum rules, seeing how there's absolutely nothing vintage about this one:

It will not against any rules of the forum, we have different threads designed to post different styles of clothing, you may consider posting oversized jacket in this thread

Just when you thought you had seen it all . . . (Warning: Not for the fainthearted)

Maison Martin Margiela 1999

www.thefedoralounge.com

 

[Canuck Panda]

You're talking about the Kanye jacket I just posted, right? Because what you're saying would not work on the original one of this thread, for various reasons. First because it's already finished, and second because all adjustments of the 2nd version will be done by the original maker of the first one. But I'm assuming you're talking about this Kanye black jacket?

I was speaking about my experience with sizing in general. There isn’t a need to go full custom to get the fit you want, either your first second or third jacket. Sizing rules is numbers/science, it’s repeatable.
The nape (center back to end of sleeve) measurement isn’t gonna change drastically going up two to three sizes so the relaxed shoulder look is achievable without paying for the custom tweaking.
In fact I will bet your first jacket has the same nape measurement as any modern XL/XXL sized jacket, in the 36” to 37” range. I also assume your shirt size has a nape between 34.5 to 35.5 given your height and weight. So an XL sized jacket or Slim XXL jacket will give you that relaxed shoulder without the sleeves covering the hands.
I will also assume you wear size 32 to 34 waist jeans. Size L is made for 36, XL is made for 38/40, and XXL is made for 42. Any competent tailor can take in 2 to 4” off the waist easily. Bingo. You now have the current designer look without the designer price tag.

 

[Formeruser012524]

I was speaking about my experience with sizing in general. There isn’t a need to go full custom to get the fit you want, either your first second or third jacket. Sizing rules is numbers/science, it’s repeatable.
The nape (center back to end of sleeve) measurement isn’t gonna change drastically going up two to three sizes so the relaxed shoulder look is achievable without paying for the custom tweaking.
In fact I will bet your first jacket has the same nape measurement as any modern XL/XXL sized jacket, in the 36” to 37” range. I also assume your shirt size has a nape between 34.5 to 35.5 given your height and weight. So an XL sized jacket or Slim XXL jacket will give you that relaxed shoulder without the sleeves covering the hands.
I will also assume you wear size 32 to 34 waist jeans. Size L is made for 36, XL is made for 38/40, and XXL is made for 42. Any competent tailor can take in 2 to 4” off the waist easily. Bingo. You now have the current designer look without the designer price tag.

Oh okay. Actually, just getting a bigger size in order to get the look closer to what I want has definitely worked with some things in the past, but not with others, because otherwise the sleeve length would cover my entire hand, even fingertips, and it might still not be large enough at other areas. It all depends on the design of the jacket. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. With the Kanye jacket in the video you have the advantage of the sleeves being "blocked" at the wrists to prevent going over the hands, so with that one you might be able to achieve some similar look by going with an enormously large size on a similar looking jacket. Despite that, there's other things that would need to be increased, such as the huge sleeve opening itself as seen in the video, which is just gigantic, lol. So yeah, I've definitely done what you said with some jackets that I wanted to be "not normal". With some of them it has worked quite well, with others "just ok", and with others not at all. But when it comes to the one this thread is about, there's no way I could've increased anything because I didn't have anything. I needed this jacket at any size, but because I couldn't find one anywhere, I needed to get it reproduced. There was no other way.

Getting a 2nd version of it will literally be getting a 2nd jacket, because there will most definitely be several adjustments, not just increasing (or decreasing, who knows?) the size.

I appreciate your willingness to help.

 

[Formeruser012524]

It will not against any rules of the forum, we have different threads designed to post different styles of clothing, you may consider posting oversized jacket in this thread

Just when you thought you had seen it all . . . (Warning: Not for the fainthearted)

Maison Martin Margiela 1999

www.thefedoralounge.com

Thanks but... it really sort of defeats the purpose of the forum if the vast majority of my posts will be about reproducing jackets that 99% of the forum members don't care about. I mean, look at this thread right here. It might serve as a great example for other amateurs in the future who are afraid they can't get a particular, rare/unusual jacket reproduced, seeing it come to fruition, but overall it has very little to nothing to do with strictly "vintage" or the interests of most if not all members. With that in mind, I am seriously debating whether there's any purpose on staying any longer. As much as I would love to, there have been some things in the past few days that happened that made me think whether it's just time to say thank you to all who helped me out, and leave. I will consult specifically with the Bartenders on that one, because my intention is not to ruin a forum.

 

[Formeruser012524]

It will not against any rules of the forum, we have different threads designed to post different styles of clothing, you may consider posting oversized jacket in this thread

Just when you thought you had seen it all . . . (Warning: Not for the fainthearted)

Maison Martin Margiela 1999

www.thefedoralounge.com

Thanks for the link. Well, posting my repros in a "mock thread" wasn't really what I was going for / planning, but yeah, this just further drives the point home that it's probably time to leave. Some individuals will celebrate (as one member has explicitly said) when they see me gone, but it will not concern me. If it happens, they can go ahead and throw a party. It's best that I allow the Bartenders to either advise me on the decision, or make a decision of their own, which is to remove me or let me stay. Because as the days go on, the less I am able to recognize what positive effects, if any, I am achieving when it comes to other members. I personally love the forum, but if most of my images or repros are going to be met with "hahaha the shoulders don't sit on his shoulder blades" and variations of it, then I'm really just a "disruptor" on here, and I don't want to be that at all. I seriously love the Lounge, but, I also want what's best for it.

 

[Formeruser012524]

I understood your point. Just wanted to clarify that I am in the Five Star discussion group and they have never themselves claimed on there to be putting out “high end designer products”. They did attend several trade fairs with the leather and garment industry in Italy, to help build relationships and perhaps for future plans, but I am sure if you asked Shawn “Is your jacket the same as this $5000 RLPL?,” he’s not going to say yes. When I dealt with him last year, to commission a jacket as a gift, he struck me as a very honest guy.

I think Zang perhaps misinterpreted Five Star’s attendance at those shows as them making a claim, which they are not.

No.

I've spoken to them, him and his brother right before they examined the jacket in detail prior to preparing to ship it. At one point I was discussing something with his brother, and he explicitly said, I cannot give you the exact quote, but I will paraphrase as good as I can remember:

"I have seen this jacket now in detail, every part of it, and you will be getting an amazing product of the highest quality. Shawn has done numerous projects of various kinds and both of us have visited fashion shows including in Milano, so what I can honestly tell you is that this is a very high quality jacket in every way, really the quality of a designer jacket. It's truly amazing work and you will be very satisfied."

That's how I remember it. Of course not word for word. And respectfully, I do not intend to go back and forth on this in the thread about how much high quality, what fashion or "luxury level" etc., it really is, if any. I'm just telling you what was said to me, and as long as I get something that I wanted, I'm good.

Regardless of that, a 2nd version will be made sooner or later, as it's highly unlikely to hit everything exactly as expected on a prototype for this type of piece.

 

[Aloysius]

A bit of general advice, Zangy. You don't need to reply to every single short post with an essay-length one. There is a place for those, but it is not the baseline. And, in my view, it is in writing these long replies to short posts that you become convinced there are long attacks on you, because you're overthinking the response.

Oh okay. Actually, just getting a bigger size in order to get the look closer to what I want has definitely worked with some things in the past, but not with others, because otherwise the sleeve length would cover my entire hand, even fingertips, and it might still not be large enough at other areas. It all depends on the design of the jacket. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. With the Kanye jacket in the video you have the advantage of the sleeves being "blocked" at the wrists to prevent going over the hands, so with that one you might be able to achieve some similar look by going with an enormously large size on a similar looking jacket.

This is part of how an oversized jacket needs to be constructed. If made oversized from the factory, you oversize the body and shoulders, but have sleeves that are actually much shorter than such a body size would usually call for. If you look at oversize jackets from the 80s/90s, you can see this phenomenon in action, as well as on jackets made for the newer oversize trend.

You can see an example in a recent Sugar Cane catalogue:

It is scaled up in the usual measurements, but they compensate for this with the sleeve. This way it is both 'oversize' in look and fits in wear.

Depending on the jacket, you can also achieve this look by upsizing, then having the sleeves hemmed.

"I have seen this jacket now in detail, every part of it, and you will be getting an amazing product of the highest quality. Shawn has done numerous projects of various kinds and both of us have visited fashion shows including in Milano, so what I can honestly tell you is that this is a very high quality jacket in every way, really the quality of a designer jacket. It's truly amazing work and you will be very satisfied."

And, like I said, this sounds like they are letting you know your jacket is not a compromise at all– and it is not one. This is in fact likely an order of magnitude better than the jacket it is based on, in its construction quality.

We are not enemies of Five Star… we're the ones who recommended Five Star to you in the first place.

 

[Canuck Panda]

@Zangy003 I am in a very weird and unique position on this matter. Simply because I kept my XL sized clothing from when I was overweight. And we are similar in height you are a cm taller but so am I on some days.
In my experience, by going up in sizes doesn't mean the sleeve will be covering the (whole) hands because the pattern is still based on the same height just bigger torso. At least this is how most North American garments are cut. Unless you go BIG and TALL sizes which adds 2" to both sleeve and length. But that's really for the pro basketball players.

Me, wearing medium, large and extra large jackets (left to right, respectively).
Straight front:

Straight back:

Three quarters (The most misleading angle. Wonder why cars and every marketing shots are done this way. Our eyes simply cannot process the different perception angles/depth all at once. Even the most skilled artist have trouble back tracing the relative perception/depth points. So your first jacket simply cannot be copied from the 3/4 angle shots. Sorry no offence but this is art science).

The (US) Medium size (will always) be about 18" ish shoulder, 23" ish P2P, 25" ish back and arms. The overall nape is about 34.5 so it looks like my shirt's sleeve length, above wrist bone)

The (US) Large size (will always) be about 19" ish shoulder, 24" ish P2P, 26" ish back and arms. The overall nape is probably about 35.5 so it covers my shirt sleeve and sit right at my wrist bone)

The (US) X-Large size (will always) be about 21"ish shoulder, 26" ish P2P, 26" ish back and arms. The sleeve and back length doesn't get any longer after a certain point, depending on brands, just add shoulder and body width. The overall nape is probably about 37.5 so here it goes down to my thumb knuckle) This jacket is actually 22" shoulder but 25" P2P. It was from the late 90s/early 2000s, and from an Italian luxury brand. They tend to do slimmer bodies but wider shoulders then. This would be equivalent to an US slim XXL today.

No offence, but you're getting fleeced in the custom jacket game no more/less than I got fleeced at the farmers market. I walked away thinking that old lady was my best friend and paid $10 for apples I could've gotten at my local grocery store for less than half that.

Your first jacket from the X files is basically an Indie jacket as some has pointed out. Except the actor wore it maybe one size bigger than how Indie wore his. Others has also pointed that out. I don't think they were trying to undermine your design choice, but simply telling it like how it was, without taking half hour to type all this shit out. I don't know what the second jacket will be. But the Kanye jacket is just another regular bomber jacket, two sizes up.

Anyways, I wish you luck finding what you're after. But please keep in mind, why pay more for less. There is no prize at the end.

 

[Formeruser012524]

A bit of general advice, Zangy. You don't need to reply to every single short post with an essay-length one. There is a place for those, but it is not the baseline. And, in my view, it is in writing these long replies to short posts that you become convinced there are long attacks on you, because you're overthinking the response.

You're definitely right that some of my replies are overly, unnecessarily detailed and at times even repetitive in some aspects. But in this particular case you said something that wasn't accurate, so I felt the need to respectfully correct you, hence the necessity to a longer reply from me. Because you said, I quote: "I think Zang perhaps misinterpreted Five Star’s attendance at those shows as them making a claim, which they are not.", even though I specifically explained in an earlier post what happened regarding the "designer level quality", that it had nothing to do with me misinterpreting their attendance at a show, but literally statements by them, said to me about my specific jacket. So no offense really, I just felt the need to clarify.

This is part of how an oversized jacket needs to be constructed...

This is helpful advice and I appreciate it. Of course, when it comes to this particular thread I didn't just want "any" oversized jacket, as I have a couple of them already. I wanted this specific one that got made. But I'll take your points into consideration whenever I intend to do a Kanye style version jacket in the future, or in general tips regarding "oversize" garments. I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying, so thanks.

And, like I said, this sounds like they are letting you know your jacket is not a compromise at all– and it is not one. This is in fact likely an order of magnitude better than the jacket it is based on, in its construction quality.

True, I think so too. But it'll definitely need adjusting, that's one thing I'm sure of, hence why I decided already for a 2nd one. There is no way a first attempt (the "prototype") based on mostly educated guesses in terms of measurements will be the fit I want. With that being said, I did make the shoulders narrower. They should still be quite wide, but not gigantically wide as in the original. And based on the sleeve hole opening and overall chest, waist and hem widths, among other things, it will definitely be a "very large" jacket, to say the least. I mentioned somewhere that it weighs over 5 kg (11+ lbs), that is without any packaging.

We are not enemies of Five Star… we're the ones who recommended Five Star to you in the first place.

Indeed, most of the people who wanted to help me recommended Five*, especially when it comes to the value for the money ratio, but there were also some folks who didn't recommend them, with implications it would be "beneath" Five* to put any effort into making this. There was also someone telling me it's not a type of jacket they could pull off in the way I wanted, et cetera. Of course I know that this community is not an "enemy" of Five*, far from it actually, or else there wouldn't be a gigantic thread with daily updates about their work right on this forum.

Sorry, I do write long texts. It's a part of me.

Yes, there's a chance I will make some people - one person in particular - very happy and leave this forum permanently. I will think about it tonight and tomorrow. They have explicitly said that they can't wait to see me gone, but not without first seeing pictures of how the jacket looks on me, so that they can laugh before I leave. I can only shake my head when I see someone say stuff like that, but at this point I am considering whether to give them this gift so they can have their fun. Whatever makes them happy in life. I've made some great connections with people from the forum and even someone I can now consider a real friend in my life - which is @Monitor - but if the future of my membership on the Fedora Lounge will be 95% focused on creating/showcasing strange, unusual looking oversized jackets, I'm not sure what the point of this participation here would be. I kept telling people that if my thread irritates them, they should not click on it, not participate, and even put me on ignore, but they did not follow this advice. So in order to avoid being a disruptor, it may be best for everyone that I just leave. At this point I'm 50/50 on it. At the same time I love browsing the forum and picking up some things about leather jackets from a thread here and there, but on the other hand I know what my main focus would be if I stay, so, it's really a tough decision at this point.

 

[ton312]

You're definitely right that some of my replies are overly, unnecessarily detailed and at times even repetitive in some aspects. But in this particular case you said something that wasn't accurate, so I felt the need to respectfully correct you, hence the necessity to a longer reply from me. Because you said, I quote: "I think Zang perhaps misinterpreted Five Star’s attendance at those shows as them making a claim, which they are not.", even though I specifically explained in an earlier post what happened regarding the "designer level quality", that it had nothing to do with me misinterpreting their attendance at a show, but literally statements by them, said to me about my specific jacket. So no offense really, I just felt the need to clarify.

This is helpful advice and I appreciate it. Of course, when it comes to this particular thread I didn't just want "any" oversized jacket, as I have a couple of them already. I wanted this specific one that got made. But I'll take your points into consideration whenever I intend to do a Kanye style version jacket in the future, or in general tips regarding "oversize" garments. I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying, so thanks.

True, I think so too. But it'll definitely need adjusting, that's one thing I'm sure of, hence why I decided already for a 2nd one. There is no way a first attempt (the "prototype") based on mostly educated guesses in terms of measurements will be the fit I want. With that being said, I did make the shoulders narrower. They should still be quite wide, but not gigantically wide as in the original. And based on the sleeve hole opening and overall chest, waist and hem widths, among other things, it will definitely be a "very large" jacket, to say the least. I mentioned somewhere that it weighs over 5 kg (11+ lbs), that is without any packaging.

Indeed, most of the people who wanted to help me recommended Five*, especially when it comes to the value for the money ratio, but there were also some folks who didn't recommend them, with implications it would be "beneath" Five* to put any effort into making this. There was also someone telling me it's not a type of jacket they could pull off in the way I wanted, et cetera. Of course I know that this community is not an "enemy" of Five*, far from it actually, or else there wouldn't be a gigantic thread with daily updates about their work right on this forum.

Sorry, I do write long texts. It's a part of me.

Yes, there's a chance I will make some people - one person in particular - very happy and leave this forum permanently. I will think about it tonight and tomorrow. They have explicitly said that they can't wait to see me gone, but not without first seeing pictures of how the jacket looks on me, so that they can laugh before I leave. I can only shake my head when I see someone say stuff like that, but at this point I am considering whether to give them this gift so they can have their fun. Whatever makes them happy in life. I've made some great connections with people from the forum and even someone I can now consider a real friend in my life - which is @Monitor - but if the future of my membership on the Fedora Lounge will be 95% focused on creating/showcasing strange, unusual looking oversized jackets, I'm not sure what the point of this participation here would be. I kept telling people that if my thread irritates them, they should not click on it, not participate, and even put me on ignore, but they did not follow this advice. So in order to avoid being a disruptor, it may be best for everyone that I just leave. At this point I'm 50/50 on it. At the same time I love browsing the forum and picking up some things about leather jackets from a thread here and there, but on the other hand I know what my main focus would be if I stay, so, it's really a tough decision at this point.

I realize I have hurt your feelings and as a result you have placed me on your ignore list. Yet you repeatedly make mention of me without using my username which is nothing short of pure cowardice.

I will tell you the problem I have with you and your threads. I believe you knew full well that this jacket and this thread has no significance in this place. This forum is dedicated to both original and reproduction pieces from the golden age. Your interests seem to lie primarily in things outside the purview of that time period. Although now defunct, a site like filmjackets.com would’ve made far more sense for your projects. It is simply inappropriate material for The Fedora Lounge. I am not saying this as a matter of opinion. It’s a tenet of this site you have chosen to ignore. If the management deems that appropriate then I suppose that’s that and their decision to make.

I believe you are fully aware of this, yet you willingly push your one man echo chamber forward. Indeed, it has resulted in some members, myself included, irritated. While some have rather curiously egged you along. You are right, I can ignore you and these posts and they will disappear. I will do that moving forward.

Rest assured, I will not point and laugh at your jacket, nor will I celebrate your choice to leave or stay. You do you. I have been on this forum for a decade. I have multiple relationships outside this forum with members that I value and appreciate. I do not harbor any animosity toward you, or your jacket(s). I simply don’t see how your interests align, in even the slightest way, with anything related to this place. It is not a personal attack, simply a matter of fact. If I have expressed this in away that has caused you grief, then I apologize.

Peace, and best of luck with all your future outwear endeavors.

 

[Peacoat]

Everyone has had his say in this matter. I think the thread has come to its useful end. I will close it and see if that calms things down.

As a reminder, no one should start the discussion up in another thread.