Calling all owners of Aero 30s Halfbelts - Question regarding range of motion - Pics!

[Rudie]

Can anybody of you 30s Halfbelt owners give me feedback about range of motion in your jackets? My jacket seems to have reasonably small armholes, but still there's a very pronounced batwing effect. At first I thought the jacket needed to break in, but now I think it's rather the cut. I asked for two-piece sleeves instead of the standard three-piece configuration. Now I'm wondering if this resulted in a different armhole placement or if the batwing effect is standard with the 30s Halfbelt jacket pattern in general. What are your experiences? Would love to see pictures of you with your arms raised so I can comare.

Start

The body starts to rise up when I abduct my arms more than 60°.

At 90° the jacket's shoulders are bulging and have ridden far up while my shoulder bone is well inside the sleeve instead of at the shoulder seam.

Finish

Batwing

Notice that my hand is touching my chest, suppressing the batwing. Is there too much fabric in the jacket body and the armholes ought to be closer to the body or what?

Is this standard with heavy FQHH in general or just with the 30s Halfbelt pattern or did I have bad luck and the pattern of my jacket is totally off?

 

[zaman fu]

My 30's HB does the same thing when zipped up. I think this result is inevitable unless underarm "footballs" are used or the jacket is cut very close to the body, which I think would be uncomfortable with such heavy leather. It doesn't matter to me much considering I remove my jacket before dancing to YMCA.

 

[Rudie]

Thanks, zaman fu.

I find that it restricts my movement to a point where it's very uncomfortable to layer underneath. I have enough room in the chest for a thick sweater, but my arm movements are so severely restricted with a sweater that it's not funny anymore. Pretty much all arm movements become very uncomfortable with a thick sweater, not just raising them above my head. The problem is that this jacket was intended for cool weather. The leather is too thick to wear it in summer. If I can wear it only on those days still warm enough to wear just a shirt underneath it won't see much time out. ):

 

[acl1]

It's definitely the cut. From the first picture in which you stand relaxed, there is a significant amount of leather that bunches up around the armpits, which is underscored by how tightly belted the lower part of the jacket. If you take the jacket to a leather tailor the excess leather could be removed. I've had similar problems with my Langlitz and with other types of clothing; I would disagree with zaman fu that it could be a problem of tightness.

 

[Rudie]

I agree it's the cut. My question was if this is an issue with all 1930s Halfbelts or just with mine.

Tightly belted? The buckles are cinched to the max and still it's too loose...

 

[Seb Lucas]

Vintage half-belts do that too. Lots of leather jackets bunch up like this unless the patterns are very carfully designed. Curiously none of my Gibson and Barnes jackets do this... If you don't mind me saying yours is very a handsome jacket but perhaps a little short and tight. Maybe that's the look you were going for.

 

[Rudie]

It's the look I was going for, but unfortunately it's tight in the wrong places. I would have liked a snug fit at the hip, but it's much too loose. On the other hand, even though there is a lot of spare fabric in the chest I can hardly move my arms when wearing a heavy sweater.

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

Because of the agressive V-shape pattern I would try to let out the straps alot and see how it looks. It probably wont affect the batwing, but to me it looks too strapped in which makes it very tight at the waist and very puffy at the top. If you let out the straps then it might look more even.

You say its still not tight enough, but I would think a more relaxed fit would make the total look better.
I would also try and wear the pants a little lower down just to see how it looks - to me they are too high up.

Please dont take this the wrong way, just an observation from my point of view and we all have different taste in clothes and how to wear them.

My Caferacer is also very v-shaped in the cut and personally I´m not very v-shaped myself so I have also some excessive leather in the chest area and the waist is very snug.

Love the pocket flaps!

 

[Rudie]

Not a good idea, I'm afraid. If I let out the straps it looks like I have a big belly from the side. There's already too much room at the hips.

 

[HorseHide]

I'm with Griff on this - I think the fact that you have pulled the waist straps tight accentuates the issue. I also don't intend to offend but for my tastes the coat is too short and too loose.

 

[HighandDry]

I definitely have some "batwing" when I raise my arms, but not to the extent that you have. I don't think that the jacket is quite fitted right for you. It seems that it's just too loose for you. I really love the fit of my halfbelt and the funny thing is, it's an off the rack size 38. It fits better than most of my custom jackets.

Back

Arms abducted

Arm at 90

 

[Rudie]

Thank you for the feedback.

HighandDry, I agree that your jacket fits much better than mine. Thanks for the pictures. Mine is too loose in the chest and hips, but I need the room in the shoulder area. I'm not sure a 38 would work in that respect. Anyway, I did not order a certain size but told Amanda what fit I preferred and sent her my measurements.

HorseHide, usually I don't wear it with jeans but with high waisted trousers, that's why it's so short. Just like I said, when I let the straps out it looks even worse from the side, giving the impression of a belly that I don't have.

 

[Tony B]

Hi Rudie

I have been making a pattern for a new jacket (never made a garment form scratch before) which I will be making in fabric and then once I have it done and am happy with the fit I will be doing one in leather and that arm movement problem has been has been an absolute pain to get right as I have been trying to get the cut more suitable for a leather jacket than a fabric jacket which means a bit tighter than you would make for a fabric jacket.

The problem for yours is the cut of the front of the sleave only by the look of it in the pictures, the picture from the back with your arms raised shows no tightness or pulling but the one from the front shows a lot of pulling just where the arm seem meets the jacket body. I have a aero long halfbelt bought secondhand which I have to assume is a 50's cut and the low arm holes are a pain so I was asking Will at aero if it would be possible to get a leather jacket made that I could cast a fly rod while wearing and it came down to two options either a lot of baggy leather under the arms which would make the jacket look awfull and in such a heavy leather be extremely uncomfortable to the point of being unwearable or under arm gussets/footballs like the ANJ4 has.

The problem is that the jacket is made for something very specific, looking smart when not riding and reaching forward to handlebars when riding a bike or joystick and throttle when flying your FW190, the only way you are really going to be able to wave your arms around would be to have either the gussets under the arms or have a load of extra leather under the arms at the front that would make them look horrible when ever you have your arms down....look at the amount of leather under the back of the arms in your rear shot to see what the front would have to look like to allow the movement you want.

Like zaman fu said you can have either tight enought to allow full movement but no layering or loose enough to allow layering but movement is going to be an obstacle that has to be worked around and may sacrefice smartness. A light fashion leather might be thin enough to allow more "bag" to be built in under the arms because it is thin enought to live with but with this heavy stuff it would be unwearable, you just have to live with the restriction of either being tight enought to allow total movement or loose enought for layering but without the sharpness, if you want all three I thing you might be looking for a Eierlegendewollmilchsau.

My next short leather jacket will have a warm cashmere lining to make up for the lack of layering because It will have no more than 3 or at most 4 inches of chest tollerance this will make the jacket too hot to wear on warm days but probably not warm enough to wear on really cold days......I have given up trying to find a a jacket that does everything, which is the perfect justification for "just one more" although I think I might be wearing that line a bit thin now.

 

[HighandDry]

Rudie, what is your jacket tagged? I have a 40" chest, 32" waist and was recommended a 40 by Amanda. I think if I had taken the 40, the fit would have been similar to yours.

 

[Mojo1975]

I definitely have some "batwing" when I raise my arms, but not to the extent that you have. I don't think that the jacket is quite fitted right for you. It seems that it's just too loose for you. I really love the fit of my halfbelt and the funny thing is, it's an off the rack size 38. It fits better than most of my custom jackets.

Back

Arms abducted

Arm at 90

Steve,

I completely agree with you here. A properly fitted 1930s Slimfit Halfbelt will always have some "batwings" underneath the arms, yet properly fit, this effect is certainly mitigated. What we find at Insurrection is that we fit folks about one whole size smaller in Aero, Vanson, and Schott than Aero, Vanson, and Schott do over the phone. Maybe this is because we're younger, maybe it's because we've dealt with more vintage fits than all of the above companies combined, but the fact is that you have to get a proper fit on these jackets; otherwise, the whole jacket can be a bit ill fitted. BTW, your Insurrection 1930s Slimfit Halfbelt looks incredible...even better than mine!!! Yet, I just got the most amazing custom off-centered zip jacket from Aero that will soon be a standard Insurrection piece, so watch out!!! And, yes, even with the amazing slimfit custom fit, I still have some "batwings," but nothing like that pictured in the OP.

 

[Mojo1975]

Can anybody of you 30s Halfbelt owners give me feedback about range of motion in your jackets? My jacket seems to have reasonably small armholes, but still there's a very pronounced batwing effect. At first I thought the jacket needed to break in, but now I think it's rather the cut. I asked for two-piece sleeves instead of the standard three-piece configuration. Now I'm wondering if this resulted in a different armhole placement or if the batwing effect is standard with the 30s Halfbelt jacket pattern in general. What are your experiences? Would love to see pictures of you with your arms raised so I can comare.

Start

The body starts to rise up when I abduct my arms more than 60°.

At 90° the jacket's shoulders are bulging and have ridden far up while my shoulder bone is well inside the sleeve instead of at the shoulder seam.

Finish

Batwing

Notice that my hand is touching my chest, suppressing the batwing. Is there too much fabric in the jacket body and the armholes ought to be closer to the body or what?

Is this standard with heavy FQHH in general or just with the 30s Halfbelt pattern or did I have bad luck and the pattern of my jacket is totally off?

Problem IMHO = Jacket one size too large and you need more body length. You think that jacket is too tight in the armholes not because it actually is but because of the stiffness of the Horween horsehide and the fit of the jacket. You have plenty, and I mean PLENTY, of room in the chest, which makes the arms more restrictive. Counter intuitive, I know, but each part of a FQHH jacket needs to move independently of the other parts of the jacket (i.e. when you raise your arm, the body of the jacket should move little...look at HighandDry's halfbelt).

 

[HighandDry]

Wade was the one who convinced me to take a 38 rather than a 40. Also, I think Insurrection's jackets have 1 inch added to body and sleeves, which also suit the jacket well.

 

[Rudie]

Tony, HighandDry and Wade, very valuable feedback, thanks!

HighandDry, I also have a 40" chest and 32" waist. I didn't order a specific size but sent Amanda my measurements and asked for a fit as snug as possible while being able to layer a heavy sweater underneath.

Wade, I agree that there is much too much fabric in the back and the chest below the armholes. But to me it seems that there is not much room in the chest at the height of the chest pockets. When standing erect it feels even a little tight with my arms dangling (and no sweater underneath). Maybe with a 38 the armholes were nearer to my body thus actually giving more room in the front chest? So it seems a 38 would be a better solution chest-wise, but I have the impression that it would be too narrow for my shoulders. With my size 40 my shoulder bones are exactly under the shoulder seams, as they should be. Surely a 38 has narrower shoulders?

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

I just don´t think evey jacket pattern fits everyone the same. The CF doesn´t really fit me as I´m not v-shaped. To be honest my Highwayman fits me better, but I still want another CR because its a cool jacket. Im now trying to figure out if a size bigger might even things out for me and "cover up" some of my lack of v-shape

Its no guarantee that a 30´s halfbelt in any size would fit perfect in all regards. I say damage control and be happy with it, thats why I recommended loosen the straps some, just to smoothen it out. If I get a size bigger CR I will have new "problems" but hopefully the total look will be better.

If the new jacket doesn´t fit right then I have to look for another pattern altogether.

 

[Rudie]

HighandDry has the same chest/waist ratio as me and his jacket fits way better. I don't think my body shape isn't suited for a 30s Halfbelt.