Cads on the subway

[klind65]

Fellow golden era fans, please share your opinions about the gentleman's custom of offering his seat to a lady. Here in New York on the subway, one hardly ever sees this. Now I know the subway is not the first place one looks for the best-bred people. However, any class of people can practice good form, if taught it as a child. Ladies, do you mourn the loss of this kindness and (I'd say) respect on behalf of men? Gentlemen, do you often wish to do so but hesitate? Why? Or do you simply never feel moved to do this? Why?

 

[Feraud]

Now I know the subway is not the first place one looks for the best-bred people.

Any why is that?
Are all the well bred types taking the chauffeur driven limousines to work.

Other than the movies(which are make believe), what facts do you have that NYC subway riders in the past were any more polite or rude than today?

 

[Miss Neecerie]

whole slew of threads on this topic..


http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=38034&highlight=manners

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=32356&highlight=manners

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=37049&highlight=manners

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=35580&highlight=manners

 

[Tomasso]

I never sit when riding the subway; who knows where those seats have been. :eusa_doh:

 

[Feraud]

Apparently polished smooth by the ill-bred masses. [huh]

 

[Sefton]

I never sit when riding the subway; who knows where those seats have been. :eusa_doh:

Sure, but if you stand and hold the straps who knows where all of the previous strap-hangers on's hands have been. Standing without holding on to anything requires years of careful study in the eastern esoteric arts under harsh unforgiving masters or at least a few visits to an Arthur Murray dance studio. Astral projection is an alternative to being in close proximity to the unwashed masses (great and not so) but as a means of getting to the office it has some drawbacks. Also direct deposit is something of a problem. I see no solution save the Limo.

 

[Feraud]

Standing without holding on to anything requires years of careful study in the eastern esoteric arts under harsh unforgiving masters or at least a few visits to an Arthur Murray dance studio.

I took up skateboarding as a young man.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I took up skateboarding as a young man.

Riding the bus in Brazil also trains one in this fine lost art of standing in moving vehicles.

 

[Sefton]

I took up skateboarding as a young man.

I hope you still do, I like the image of a man in three-piece suit wearing a fedora riding a skateboard. Show those young whipper-snappers how to ride in style!

 

[Feraud]

There is no art to riding a city bus. They are crowded enough to not need to hold on or use your balance. Talk about public displays of affection..:eusa_doh:

 

[dhermann1]

I ride the #2 train every day, and in my 40 years plus experience of riding the NYC subways, I'd say the rule of thumb is this. Men don't give up their seats to women of the same general age range at all. But they will often, not always, but often, give up their seats to an elderly or pregnant woman.
However I'd say that I see young unpregnant women give their seats to pregnant women immediately, but the men take a minute or so to decide.
So there is some code of courtesy in the system, but a rough one.
As far as the class of people who ride the trains, really, EVERYONE rides the subways in New York.

 

[mike]

I never sit when riding the subway; who knows where those seats have been. :eusa_doh:

All over town, I'd say! lol

 

[mike]

I gave up my seat on a packed LIRR train about a month ago to an 80+ year old woman and had the entire car for the rest of the trip heave praise on me. It was too much praise actually, I think I learned my lesson

To add my two cents about various classes of people in NYC riding the subway, it is one of the things NY'ers pride themselves on; in lots of cities, public transport is for the very poor but here it is the great equalizer.

 

[mike]

I hope you still do, I like the image of a man in three-piece suit wearing a fedora riding a skateboard. Show those young whipper-snappers how to ride in style!

what? whippet-snapped brims? :eusa_doh:

 

[ladybrettashley]

It's seldom an issue for me - standing-room only on the bus is nearly newsworthy around here.

That said, though, there is a code of sorts, much like what dhermann said. People tend to move for the elderly and pregnant women, and i would add disabled to that. Also, if someone has small children with them they are often juggling their and the kid's stuff and people are pretty helpful about it. Of course, busses also have drivers, who have been known to enforce politeness . But, as uncrowded as out public transit is, giving up your seat usually just means moving farther to the back, not standing.

 

[Caity Lynn]

Bus from Jersey into NYC and my 70 year old, frail little grandmother (lol) Had to stand. She ended up politely asking someone to move their hand off their arm rest and half sat on that holding onto me for balance. While there were several young gentlemen about with seats. Made me a bit angry... It wasnt the only time either, but then again, sometimes people are very polite and courteous.

 

[David Conwill]

Someone once told me that etiquette is the art of making others comfortable. Given that and what I’ve heard of New Yorkers, I would say that it would almost be poor etiquette to offer one’s seat on the subway to a stranger. On the other hand, I have given up my Lansing bus seat for certain Midwestern ladies, and they’re ordinarily quite pleased, so it’s all about judging the recipient of your offer.

-Dave

 

[klind65]

Any why is that?
Are all the well bred types taking the chauffeur driven limousines to work.

Other than the movies(which are make believe), what facts do you have that NYC subway riders in the past were any more polite or rude than today?

Well, I think there is a general consensus among people that things were better (including good form) in the past ,after all, why are we fans of the Golden Age in the first place? But to answer your question:
I go by the stories of my grandparents who lived in New York during the era (and rode the train), and by what I have gathered from reading books of cultural history, the history of manners, gender relations, feminism, "The Decline and Fall of the British Aristocracy" by David Cannadine was quite helpful, etc.. My book on Etiquette from 1900 -on indicates what behavioral parameters were expected and observed by most. People then were concerned with good form; there was opprobrium directed at those who abrogated the rules in contrast to today where there are few standards and people do whatever they please, regardless of whether or not it is inconsiderate of those around them. One could cite the "me" generation as being an example of a solipsistic age in which consideration for others falls far behind one's own desires. This ideology is fundamentally antithetical to maintaining a civilized society, especially in a crowded city atmosphere.
Other causal factors contributing to the erosion of the "gentleman's code" for lack of a more concise term, include the entrance of women into the workforce during WW2 and remaining there thereafter, the so-called sexual revolution of the 60's, the ascendancy of the "anti-hero" in literature and film and the women's movement of the late 60's and 70's. These social factors transformed the relations between the sexes in many ways but it need not have sounded the death knell for kindness and consideration, which is the basis upon which I rest my objection. I hope this answers your question.

 

[mike]

Someone once told me that etiquette is the art of making others comfortable. Given that and what I’ve heard of New Yorkers, I would say that it would almost be poor etiquette to offer one’s seat on the subway to a stranger. On the other hand, I have given up my Lansing bus seat for certain Midwestern ladies, and they’re ordinarily quite pleased, so it’s all about judging the recipient of your offer.

-Dave

I've heard many times how surprised visitors are when they have that preconceived notion about NY'ers smashed into a million tiny pieces!

 

[David Conwill]

I've heard many times how surprised visitors are when they have that preconceived notion about NY'ers smashed into a million tiny pieces!

In my defense, I'll say that my notions were conceived through conversations with law school classmates from New York City and its environs. I tend to think the best of people, however, and if my classmates were any indication, there's a good number of friendly and polite New Yorkers out there.

Still, everybody warned me that weakness is death in the jungle that is NYC, so I dont' know what to think about behavior on the subway.

-Dave