Cads on the subway

[Edward]

I have, when feeling brave enough, offered my seat to ladies before now. Contrary to popular belief among a surprising number of boorish men who like to come over all feminist only on occasions when that means they don't have to give up their seat , while a number of ladies have politely declined, I've never ha anyone make any expression of being offended by such a 'sexist' offer. If I'm out on the town with a lady, I would naturally give her the preferential treatment with seats and so on, though I think that's simple politeness to someone you like spending time with over and above it being a gender issue. [huh]

I can well understand the modern notion that a woman doesn't necessarily want to have a seat just because she's female. I should hope, though, that noone would presume me to be a hideous, sexist old fossil simply because I choose to offer. [huh]

To add my two cents about various classes of people in NYC riding the subway, it is one of the things NY'ers pride themselves on; in lots of cities, public transport is for the very poor but here it is the great equalizer.

Yeah, same here in London. I love not having to own a car. Back in Northern Ireland, I'd have had no choice, as the public transport network is so limited, but it's a finanicial drain I'd rather avoid!! Course, there will always be those who consider themselves above public transport.... and they need to leave three or four times the amount of travle time to get anywhere by road.

I'd like to cycle in London myself, not to avoid public transport, but for the exercise (that and I covet pretty vintage-style bikes), however I am not actually suicidal, renering it impractical.

Since I bought my Vespa, I almost never take the T anymore, but when I do, I don't even bother to sit. That sorts it all out for me.

I tend to do that when it's busy - leave the seats forf those more able to stand.

I keep reading this as Cats on the Subway...which is really a lot more interesting topic then the same old 'no one has manners discussion'

Although I usually see cats on subways as being related to gypsy musical groups on subways.....related phenomena...

lol I've taken my girls on the tube before - they didn't like it, but they soon stopped fretting when they realised they could generate a lot of attention by looking cute.... lol

If a man offered me a seat on the underground/bus, I'd probably think I needed to lose weight, or buy a girdle! lol Likewise I have a terrible fear of offering my seat to a 'pregnant' lady, only to find out she's not actually pregnant! It helps that pregnant ladies can get badges from the Undergound saying 'Baby on Board', still, I have seen many a row of young bankers bury their noses further into their copies of City AM in order to 'not notice' the pregnant woman standing in the aisle in front of them. And while I would never expect to be offered a seat out of the blue, it does bug me to be constantly be barged out of the way by men trying to get on first so as to get a seat. That is just rude, in my opinion.

Aye, that's the truth. Re the pregnancy thing, if one always offers one's seat to a lady irrespective, then... [huh] I mean, I can deal with this modern gener equality and all, but the guys who trot out the loathesome 'better a pregnant lady stands than a fat lass sits crying' nonsense (that's a direct quote from a letter to one of the London freesheets the last time this matter was raised therein) as a cheap excuse to be selfish.... pathetic. Even worse, IMO, was the guy who wrote in and insisted "these women chose to get pregnant, so i don't see why I should have to give up my seat for them..." Unbelievable.

 

[ladybrettashley]

Oops, sorry for the repeat - didn't see Fleur's!

I have, when feeling brave enough, offered my seat to ladies before now. Contrary to popular belief among a surprising number of boorish men who like to come over all feminist only on occasions when that means they don't have to give up their seat , while a number of ladies have politely declined, I've never ha anyone make any expression of being offended by such a 'sexist' offer. If I'm out on the town with a lady, I would naturally give her the preferential treatment with seats and so on, though I think that's simple politeness to someone you like spending time with over and above it being a gender issue. [huh]

I can well understand the modern notion that a woman doesn't necessarily want to have a seat just because she's female. I should hope, though, that noone would presume me to be a hideous, sexist old fossil simply because I choose to offer. [huh]

As one of the girls who tends to decline such offers, i want to register that it is certainly not out of offense! In fact, i think it is charming and nice. The thing is that, i find the attention that goes along with such charming acts a bit embarrassing. In the case of having a door held, i smile and say thank you, and then we both move on. If a bit embarrassing, it is fleeting, and so generally outweighed by the kindness. I feel the seat issue is different, as it is prolonged, which results in my feel a bit embarrassedly selfish for the duration.

That is only my personal take on it, of course.

 

[olive bleu]

Oops, sorry for the repeat - didn't see Fleur's

That story is cute enough to bear repeating

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Thanks for your post. I realize now that perhaps my view of who rides the subways is not quite accurate. I am not a native and ergo don't benefit from the perspective time would bestow. I formulated my opinion based on the people I've seen personally - maybe I'm just riding the wrong train!

Perhaps the greatest example of that "vintage" sense of a "greater" propriety would be to make amends directly those we have offended. Perhaps you are on the wrong train altogether.

Just my modern version of social grace. [huh]

 

[Tomasso]

maybe I'm just riding the wrong train!

You'd better stick to the Lexington Ave. line (4-5-6), Ms. Rocker.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

You'd better stick to the Lexington Ave. line (4-5-6), Ms. Rocker.

lol lol lol lol lol lol too funny Tomasso!!!!!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Widebrim]

I have, when feeling brave enough, offered my seat to ladies before now. Contrary to popular belief among a surprising number of boorish men who like to come over all feminist only on occasions when that means they don't have to give up their seat , while a number of ladies have politely declined, I've never ha anyone make any expression of being offended by such a 'sexist' offer. If I'm out on the town with a lady, I would naturally give her the preferential treatment with seats and so on, though I think that's simple politeness to someone you like spending time with over and above it being a gender issue. [huh]

I can well understand the modern notion that a woman doesn't necessarily want to have a seat just because she's female. I should hope, though, that noone would presume me to be a hideous, sexist old fossil simply because I choose to offer. [huh]

Thank you. I don't offer my seat to women with the thought that they are inferior (although physically, men do tend to be stronger). Rather, it is an act which, to me at least, is a way of bestowing honor to the female gender. Yes, very old fashioned and chivalric, I know...

 

[Widebrim]

lol lol lol lol lol lol too funny Tomasso!!!!!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Or the Arthur Avenue L! (Does it still exist?) By the way, hope you are relaxing over there in Sydney. Send me a PM when you can!

Lee

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Here are 2 things I've frequently seen in Chile but never in the U.S.A.:


-- People standing in a long line let late-term pregnant women go to the front of the line.

-- Parking spaces near businesses are reserved for the handicapped and for pregnant drivers.



.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

-- Also, parking spaces near businesses were reserved for the handicapped and for pregnant drivers.



.

Not been to Ikea lately have you?


At least at some of them they have this, I suppose it might depend on how the complex they are in is set up.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Not been to Ikea lately have you?

No! But I'm not surprised. IKEA is sooo Swedish. :eusa_clap



.

 

[texasgirl]

I've seen both here- a lot of stores have the pregnant women parking spaces. They're pink

 

[Foofoogal]

It should be a crime for other women that don't let pregnant women in bathroom stalls where there is a line. They should immediately get to go to the front of the line. I have seen parking stalls for expecting moms.

 

[olive bleu]

I've seen both here- a lot of stores have the pregnant women parking spaces. They're pink

oh, we have those too, but that doesn't stop others from parking in them. And unless the store has security that cares enough to enforce it, you're out of luck. Never mind the "giving- up-the-seat-on-the-bus" issue. When there is a big sign right in front of you that screams,"this parking spot is for someone else" and you park there anyway..well..that's just bad.[bad]

 

[klind65]

Klind I have a question then...if you see it, do you set an example and give up your seat or do you wait for men to do it?

I make my son do it, because that is what I was taught, but I also do it myself. I don't ask him to do what I myself won't.

Dear Elaina,
Excellent question. I admire your teaching your son by example - a powerful tool. I customarily give my seat up to the elderly or disabled or expectant mothers. My offers have never been refused. Sometimes also, when I do this, someone else offers me his seat in turn which is nice. Often if someone gets on and s/he is beset by many packages or baggage that is hard to handle I like to offer my seat because I can imagine how unpleasant it is to be in people's way and have many objects to juggle.

I agree with everyone that etiquette is most concisely defined as placing oneself in another's shoes and considering his/her comfort ahead of one's own. The golden rule.
However, aside and apart from this definition, I see a biological /instinctive and historical basis for male behavior toward the female. Consider the Gorilla who in the configuration of his family structure arranges the females and young in the center, the older Silverbacks next and the young males lastly in a series of protective concentric circles. This is done because the females can create new life, and in so doing are quite valuable and vulnerable during pregnancy and so must be protected at all times. The older members presumably in the senescence of their physical strength are next in order of protection, and the young males, being the most robust and strongest defenders of the tribe are on the outside and are the most “expendable”. Returning to Homo Sapiens, the male GENERALLY is larger and possesses more brute strength than the average female, and theoretically could physically destroy her quite easily. To prevent such an occurrence, customs evolved most notably in the Middle Ages with the Christian Knights. Basic respect for the female and her life-giving capacities, her beauty and her smaller stature led them to create a very decorous and gracious code of behaviour which of course was chivalry and was designed to illustrate the high esteem in which they held women and to protect them from the considerable dangers of life then. “Ladies First” or “Women and Children first” were based on the idea that men, being USUALLY more robust , aggressive or bellicose, could simply rush ahead and reach whatever goal was in question beforehand. Allowing ladies first was simply a recognition of this probability and a courtesy.

Of course, this male “protection” can be carried to extremes or misinterpreted which in fact happened during the eras when females weren’t allowed to pursue careers, or vote or really do much of anything. Any idea can be taken to extremes. And yes, I agree with Paisley that there is no ostensible reason for an able bodied woman to sit any more than a man. And of course today we no longer have the physical challenges of an agricultural age or an industrial age. Our electronic age does not require as much brute strength as those former times. And of course, we are not gorillas. HOWEVER, since we have a historical tradition which is very beautiful and respectful, why not retain it? The world could well do with an infusion of beauty and respect.

And besides, even though women have achieved equality or near-equality in employment and education there still remains the physical differential between the sexes. I’ve never understood why women can be on the one hand in favor of political equality but against kind or respectful gestures from men. Of course we can open a door,:eusa_doh: but isn’t it nice to have it done for us? Equality and kindness need not be mutually exclusive. Are kindness and respect being confused with condescension? Women create new life in their bodies and bring it forth and this fact renders them vulnerable at times. I think there should continue to be some special respect shown toward them on this account ( whether they are expectant or not – it is respect for the potential). Can we not progress as a society without jettisoning the best elements of the past?

 

[klind65]

I keep reading this as Cats on the Subway...which is really a lot more interesting topic then the same old 'no one has manners discussion'

Although I usually see cats on subways as being related to gypsy musical groups on subways.....related phenomena...

I love this!

 

[Paisley]

...customs evolved most notably in the Middle Ages with the Christian Knights. Basic respect for the female and her life-giving capacities, her beauty and her smaller stature led them to create a very decorous and gracious code of behaviour which of course was chivalry and was designed to illustrate the high esteem in which they held women and to protect them from the considerable dangers of life then. “Ladies First” or “Women and Children first” were based on the idea that men, being USUALLY more robust , aggressive or bellicose, could simply rush ahead and reach whatever goal was in question beforehand. Allowing ladies first was simply a recognition of this probability and a courtesy.

According to what I have read, chivalry at that time was only for women of privilege.

On a date, it's nice to make a distinction between the sexes, regarding manners. Of course, a man suddenly becoming progressive or a women turning into a delicate flower as soon as the check comes misses the point.

 

[ladybrettashley]

Of course, a man suddenly becoming progressive or a women turning into a delicate flower as soon as the check comes misses the point.

lol lol

Our Target has those pregnant-women parking spots. I don't think they're abided by, considering people have no respect for handicap spaces, and parking there is illegal.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

NYC Transit Seat Hogs Could Face Jail Time
New Campaign Directed At Rude MTA Commuters

Well this news is bittersweet for those who think they deserve a seat because they consider themselves the "fairer" sex.

http://wcbstv.com/local/mta.transit.seat.2.1049788.html

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Well this news is bittersweet for those who think they deserve a seat because they consider themselves the "fairer" sex.

Some of us just can't help being pale...fair skin is a virtue? lol