British medical suggestion

[MrBern]

Laurence Gruer, director of public health science at NHS Health Scotland, and Sir George, who is emeritus professor of medicine at Newcastle University. The Glasgow University professors Naveed Sattar and Mike Lean also contributed to this report on dealing with obesity:

Printing a helpline numbers for advice with all clothes sold with a waist of more than 40in for men and 37in for boys, women’s garments with a waist of more than 35in or size 16 or above, and more than 31in for girls

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2505374,00.html

 

[melankomas]

that seems a bit cruel. including bicycle lanes is a nice thing to do, however.

 

[Daisy Buchanan]

And here I am thinking that the British are polite!!!
But really, I know that obesity is a big (ok, I know, I really couldn't think of a word that wouldn't be a pun!) problem. I believe in America it's even worse. There are things that should and could be done, especially for the sake of our ever expanding youth. But some of these suggestions are pretty cruel!

 

[GOK]

So it's not cruel to slowly kill your children by feeding them vast amounts of rubbish? It's not cruel to stuff your face and risk your children being orphaned at an early age? It's not cruel to take up valuable health resources that could be utilised for people that are sick through no fault of their own just because you are too darn lazy or stupid to look after your body?

Sorry, I know it's harsh but the fact is that the majority of the UK population is clinically obese and the problem is getting worse. If people aren't going to listen and take action via a softly softly approach, then perhaps stronger measures should be taken.

Sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind.

Nobody would object to this kind of thing if it were aimed at any other kind of additction such as smoking, drugs or alcohol, so why should food be any different? I'm not saying that there aren't psych reasons why people get fat, of course there are, and - contrary to my sweeping generalization earlier - it's not always because they are lazy or stupid. I know that. I also know that not every obese person has deep seated issues - sometimes it is because they cannot be bothered to eat properly.

To be honest, if these measures are made reality, I don't think they are going to help much - one has to want to change, not feel coerced. However, if the measures help only a handful of people, then they're worth trying.

Oh Daisy - Brits are far from polite. Some are the most ill-mannered people in the world. In my experience, you Americans have far more d?©corum in a lot of respects!

 

[Matthew Dalton]

I'm not sure how much good any of these ideas will do if implemented; but at this stage I wouldn't say no to trials of just about anything that might help.

I don't agree with the tax though. I’d feel like I’m being punished because someone else can’t sort themselves out. I’m quite thin and do enjoy sugared and fatty foods in moderation.

 

[GOK]

I don't agree with the tax though. I’d feel like I’m being punished because someone else can’t sort themselves out. I’m quite thin and do enjoy sugared and fatty foods in moderation.

I see your point and I agree with you but until there is a better solution... Having said that, having a huge amount of tax on tobacco products and alcohol hasn't deterred smokers and drinkers. [huh]

 

[melankomas]

So it's not cruel to slowly kill your children by feeding them vast amounts of rubbish? It's not cruel to stuff your face and risk your children being orphaned at an early age? It's not cruel to take up valuable health resources that could be utilised for people that are sick through no fault of their own just because you are too darn lazy or stupid to look after your body?

Sorry, I know it's harsh but the fact is that the majority of the UK population is clinically obese and the problem is getting worse. If people aren't going to listen and take action via a softly softly approach, then perhaps stronger measures should be taken.

Sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind.

Nobody would object to this kind of thing if it were aimed at any other kind of additction such as smoking, drugs or alcohol, so why should food be any different? I'm not saying that there aren't psych reasons why people get fat, of course there are, and - contrary to my sweeping generalization earlier - it's not always because they are lazy or stupid. I know that. I also know that not every obese person has deep seated issues - sometimes it is because they cannot be bothered to eat properly.

To be honest, if these measures are made reality, I don't think they are going to help much - one has to want to change, not feel coerced. However, if the measures help only a handful of people, then they're worth trying.

Oh Daisy - Brits are far from polite. Some are the most ill-mannered people in the world. In my experience, you Americans have far more d?©corum in a lot of respects!

beg pardon, ma'am, but yes, i do think singling people out at a certain size and branding their clothing is a bit cruel. were all clothing to have this labeling, very well. as for banning the placement of certain foods in certain places, that isn't disturbing. silly, perhaps. sad that it may make some difference, yes.

additionally, in my experience, the most inexpensive way to eat is improperly. when i was a child, i didn't eat fresh vegetables or fruits, &c, because my parents could not afford them, not because they wanted to deny me a healthy diet.

 

[GOK]

additionally, in my experience, the most inexpensive way to eat is improperly. when i was a child, i didn't eat fresh vegetables or fruits, &c, because my parents could not afford them, not because they wanted to deny me a healthy diet.

I have absolutely no idea about prices in the States but here in the UK, staples are not expensive, it's the processed foods that are. Fruit and veg are much, much cheaper than junk food. I make absolutely no apology for my views on feeding children rubbish. Over here there is no excuse for it. Obesity is only one result of poor eating habits.

As for your comment about the warnings on clothes sizes - I might be inclined to agree with you; being underweight is dangerous too. Plus, just because you buy a certain size dress doesn't necessarily mean you are not overweight. I take a size UK 14 (what's that? US 10 or 12?) - at almost six feet tall this is fine for me but for someone who stands 5'0" in her stockings, this would probably indicate that she was overweight. So yes, put the darn warning on all clothes if that's what it takes to make people take notice.

However, they won't take notice because as the saying goes; "There's none so blind as those that won't see". [huh]

 

[melankomas]

I have absolutely no idea about prices in the States but here in the UK, staples are not expensive, it's the processed foods that are. Fruit and veg are much, much cheaper than junk food. I make absolutely no apology for my views on feeding children rubbish. Over here there is no excuse for it. Obesity is only one result of poor eating habits.

As for your comment about the warnings on clothes sizes - I might be inclined to agree with you; being underweight is dangerous too. Plus, just because you buy a certain size dress doesn't necessarily mean you are not overweight. I take a size UK 14 (what's that? US 10 or 12?) - at almost six feet tall this is fine for me but for someone who stands 5'0" in her stockings, this would probably indicate that she was overweight. So yes, put the darn warning on all clothes if that's what it takes to make people take notice.

However, they won't take notice because as the saying goes; "There's none so blind as those that won't see". [huh]

i've hardly asked for apology, ma'am.

 

[GOK]

i've hardly asked for apology, ma'am.

I didn't say you did!

 

[LaMedicine]

Interesting, to say the least.
I agree wholeheartedly with GOK.
On the other hand, there is this report, also from the UK.

Since I deal in part with obese people--I am a diabetologist, so many of my patients are overweight, and it will bode them well to control their weight first, than depending entirely on medication--I can tell you how hard it is to actually have them face their problem and tackle it with gusto. I have done everything from cajoling to scaring--everything short of bribery--but unless the person get some sort of wake up call, somewhere, nothing works.
If such labeling has a remote chance of working as such a wake up call, then I think it's worth the cost.

Teaching kids good choices and moderation is another must. We can't let the next generation degenerate into apathy because they can't move themselves.

I sure hope we can get this problem straightend out in time.

 

[GOK]

Interesting, to say the least.
I agree wholeheartedly with GOK.
On the other hand, there is this report, also from the UK.

Since I deal in part with obese people--I am a diabetologist, so many of my patients are overweight, and it will bode them well to control their weight first, than depending entirely on medication--I can tell you how hard it is to actually have them face their problem and tackle it with gusto. I have done everything from cajoling to scaring--everything short of bribery--but unless the person get some sort of wake up call, somewhere, nothing works.
If such labeling has a remote chance of working as such a wake up call, then I think it's worth the cost.

Teaching kids good choices and moderation is another must. We can't let the next generation degenerate into apathy because they can't move themselves.

I sure hope we can get this problem straightend out in time.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

But data was distorted as not enough local health trusts did the tests and, where they did, parents of fat children refused to give permission for them to be weighed.

I told you - none so blind.

And this just makes me see red:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/16/nmeals16.xml

A group of so-called mothers selling junk food to schoolchildren, and claiming genetic makeup is responsible for obesity, not over indulgence/wrong types of food.

Oh please. Wake up to yourselves people. :rage:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,1879798,00.html

:eusa_clap

 

[Fletch]

And here I am thinking that the British are polite!!! [...] some of these suggestions are pretty cruel!

Yep - well...there's a certain readiness to judge that Yanks don't have (but we're learning well.) There's also a culture of austerity – especially amongst the Scots, for whom it goes back centuries – which inevitably casts unfair suspicion on the supposedly overfed.

 

[LaMedicine]

Genetics my butt, sheesh!!:rage:
Certainly, genetics are responsible for obesity, but only in part. Genetically, we are all inclined to stock up for times of famine, but it is up to us to make the choice of stocking up only in moderation, and in good balance, and keep ourselves and our children in good health, since we live in a time and age where famine of the order seen in historic past is nowhere in sight, unless we live in certain very underpriveledged areas of the world.
Kudos to the headmaster who knocked sense into the parents.:eusa_clap

 

[GOK]

Genetics my butt, sheesh!!:rage:
Certainly, genetics are responsible for obesity, but only in part. Genetically, we are all inclined to stock up for times of famine, but it is up to us to make the choice of stocking up only in moderation, and in good balance, and keep ourselves and our children in good health, since we live in a time and age where famine of the order seen in historic past is nowhere in sight, unless we live in certain very underpriveledged areas of the world.
Kudos to the headmaster who knocked sense into the parents.:eusa_clap

Agreed, on all points. The last school I worked at implemented a similar principle; we used to use an outside caterer but it got to the point where out of the the 360 pupils at the school, less than twenty would have a school dinner. So the head dropped the caterers and employed a proper chef. She called meetings with staff, governors, parents and the pupils themselves. Questionnaires were sent home and suggestions were welcomed from the pupils. The result was a wonderfully healthy and yummy school menu, with chips (fries) on Fridays as a special treat. Even we the staff, were for that! lol

We were lucky at that school though because it was in a very middle/upper class area, where the parents actually cared about what their children ate. I wonder however, if it had been in a lower status area, whether they might not have been so willing. [huh]

The thing that gets me is that very often, children have no idea where their food comes from. Again, parents must bear at least some of the blame for this. I don't know if they don't tell their children for fear of upsetting the apple cart (thereby making their job as parent and cook a little more difficult) or if they are trying to protect their children's sensibilities. Whatever the reason, I believe that children really should know where the food on their plate comes from. If they are not comfortable with eating it, fine, give them an alternative. My MIL makes a point of telling her grandchildren (my SIL's little'uns) exactly where their food is from. She does this so well that she managed to put the youngest one off the lobster she had bought for their dinner because it had eyes! lol

Our government now says that in year 5 (9-10 years old), children have to learn about nutrition and where food comes from. Every year I taught this, I never ceased to be amazed at the lack of comprehension in some children that some food actually started out as an animal. I also used to work for a charity that gave children from under priviledged families holidays in the country and days out to farms, theatre etc. Whilst at a farm one day, I was amazed to hear a 12 year old boy exclaim that he had no idea milk came from cows. Twelve years old and nobody had thought to tell him. I find that astonishing.

So given that often, parents don't think to or can't be bothered to educate their children about the food on their plates, it's hardly surprising that some kids have a bad relationship with it and end up obese (or anorexic for that matter...but that's generally a whole different kettle of piscean creatures). It is truly tragic.

 

[Paisley]

I have absolutely no idea about prices in the States but here in the UK, staples are not expensive, it's the processed foods that are. Fruit and veg are much, much cheaper than junk food.

That's my experience here, too. You can get apples on sale for a buck a pound. A five-pound bag of potatoes (which are loaded with vitamin C) is only a few dollars. Cabbage: I've seen it for 39 cents a pound. I've even seen chicken legs for about a dollar a pound and cans of tuna for 50 cents. (To put it into perspective: a candy bar or can of soda pop is about 60 cents.) But the price of junk food--yikes! My office recently quit ordering potato chips and other snacks because it was so expensive, and because a few people were taking entire bags back to their desks.

However, I don't like the government inserting itself into the private business of what people want to eat.

 

[melankomas]

Genetics my butt, sheesh!!:rage:
Certainly, genetics are responsible for obesity, but only in part. Genetically, we are all inclined to stock up for times of famine, but it is up to us to make the choice of stocking up only in moderation, and in good balance, and keep ourselves and our children in good health, since we live in a time and age where famine of the order seen in historic past is nowhere in sight, unless we live in certain very underpriveledged areas of the world.
Kudos to the headmaster who knocked sense into the parents.:eusa_clap

perhaps this is where my discrepancy is rooted. my parents both came from such underprivileged countries. one's parents' values are bound to rub off on one at some point, and although i do see obesity as a serious threat to public health, part of me also still believes my parents words: "being heavy is a privilege". i recall how disappointed my father was that my frame isn't built to hold a great deal of weight. when i was old enough to work and help pay bills, i remember saving a bit of money for weight gainer (this is a high-calorie powder), in hopes i could become heavy.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I don't recall exactly, but less than 1% of obesity is gene-related (in my head i have the figure 0.2%, but i can't find the reference).

The rest is about self control. Eat less. Stop eating when you're not hungry any more. Avoid corn syrup. Parents make such decisions for their children. Not too hard.

This seems to be a relatively new phenomenon in Scotland. When i was growing up, most people i knew (self included) were so poor they couldn't afford the fast foods and fizzy/sugary drinks that they seem to be able to afford now. There was generally one "fat kid" or so per class, and they weren't on the order of fatness we're seeing today. With an increase in disposable cash, an increased reliance on credit to get that cash ( ), and the inevitable backlash against Scottish Presbyterian authoritarianism (church - kirk - attendance at an all-time low :eusa_clap :eusa_clap ) these things are bound to happen. Funnily enough it's the people who can least well afford the bad things (the poverty stricken largely in Edinburgh and Glasgow who historically have the highest incidence of heart disease and other health issues) that are most affected. Since most people in Scotland are in those two cities, the obesity figures for the country as a whole don't really reflect the reality in my area (Borders) or in the Highlands.

As for the "larger sized clothes should come with a warning", that is indeed just cruel.

bk

 

[Matthew Dalton]

On a perhaps related note, I think they should also abolish "vanity sizing". That is to say, giving larger sizes lower numbers so that bigger people can feel better about themself.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

absolutely!

I was stunned to see they're now doing this for men's clothing. The last time i picked up a pair of size 30 waist trousers, they had a 32 waist! Unbelievable.

bk