British designer decries "scruffy" British men.

[dhermann1]

Fletch . . . New York still misses you!

 

[bumphrey hogart]

I've got to say though,in my opinion, this is one of the finest discussions I've been a part of for a long time,and coming out of the strangest of original subjects,and I take all the criticisms as absolutely valid.This whole computer malarkey is a bit new to me,only got a computer because my 13 year old needed one for school,had never even switched one on before last summer.Had not really attempted to write in a coherent manner since school either,so if my grammar's off I apologise,just have a collection of vintage hats,watches and leather jackets and when trying out this new fangled interweb thing, trying to find answers to queries regarding my little idiosyncrasies, this site kept popping up,so decided to get involved.
So,without having had the opportunity to read the original article, it might possibly be that the laziness I've displayed by not learning the acronyms relevant to this subject and the fact my grammar's a little scruffy might be the very point the author was making.

 

[scottyrocks]

Well, regardless of all that, I'd like to welcome to the Lounge, bh, in case I hadn't already.

 

[Puzzicato]

You could easily say the same for US men, and really, most of the western world these days.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/dec/10/british-men-scruffy-says-designer

It's funny actually - I was thinking last week how much nicer British men look in the winter because lots of lovely felt hats and good quality overcoats come out. And lots of nicely-tied scarves. They hide so many sins.

 

[W-D Forties]

A lot of British men these days seem to wear beachwear all year round. If the sun is out, so are the 3/4 length shorts and the flip flops. Never mind that its January.
It also seems acceptable these days for men to dress like ovegrown toddlers in the summer. It seems to have reveresed from the pre-war days of 'dressing like your dad' to dressing like your pre-schooler. It's reall most unbecoming, whatever the age of the person wearing it.

And don't get me started on the trend to dress your very young daughter like a lapdancer.

 

[Fletch]

...the fact my grammar's a little scruffy might be the very point the author was making.

American men are way ahead of Brits in scruffy grammar. We're to the point where good writing is devalued even in the service of making money, which could once validate almost any activity.

 

[sheeplady]

IFor example, pajamas belong at home and not in public, but more and more often I see people wearing them in a store. I think people have lost pride in their appearance.

Oh, but it gets worse. I teach at a residential college, and I have had students come to a 2pm class in the middle of winter wearing pajamas, flip flops, and robes. The class was "Business and Professional Speaking." I had a dress code in my syllabus too.

But it is somewhat scary to me that we are providing young people to offices that still are very strict in how they dress; but I have 19-22 years old sitting in my class that do not know that flip flops and a pair of pants is not business formal (yet alone business casual). These adults go out to interview with no clue that their pink suit or sweater/pants outfit is not appropriate for a bank or law firm, and they have just lost the job the minute they walk into the door. Which I find very sad.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh, but it gets worse. I teach at a residential college, and I have had students come to a 2pm class in the middle of winter wearing pajamas, flip flops, and robes. The class was "Business and Professional Speaking." I had a dress code in my syllabus too.

But it is somewhat scary to me that we are providing young people to offices that still are very strict in how they dress; but I have 19-22 years old sitting in my class that do not know that flip flops and a pair of pants is not business formal (yet alone business casual). These adults go out to interview with no clue that their pink suit or sweater/pants outfit is not appropriate for a bank or law firm, and they have just lost the job the minute they walk into the door. Which I find very sad.

If you and/or the univsity have a dress code, do not be afraid to enforce it. I would have no issue sending them back to their dorm to get dressed properly. Once they are properly dressed, they are more than welcome in class.


Also, I think I heard the autor of this article on the BBC radio today on NPR.

 

[rue]

Oh, but it gets worse. I teach at a residential college, and I have had students come to a 2pm class in the middle of winter wearing pajamas, flip flops, and robes. The class was "Business and Professional Speaking." I had a dress code in my syllabus too.

But it is somewhat scary to me that we are providing young people to offices that still are very strict in how they dress; but I have 19-22 years old sitting in my class that do not know that flip flops and a pair of pants is not business formal (yet alone business casual). These adults go out to interview with no clue that their pink suit or sweater/pants outfit is not appropriate for a bank or law firm, and they have just lost the job the minute they walk into the door. Which I find very sad.

That is just awful. You would think that they would be much better at knowing the difference given their chosen future careers.

If you and/or the univsity have a dress code, do not be afraid to enforce it. I would have no issue sending them back to their dorm to get dressed properly. Once they are properly dressed, they are more than welcome in class.

I agree. You really should tell them to leave and come back when they know how to dress properly.

 

[Undertow]

I was able to read through the article and I'm wondering why it was even posted at all. It follows no distinct argument other than, "Why, oh why, can't people buy my product?" Yet, this designer is himself part of his own problem?

Then to confound the reader, this designer blames the Queen (albeit indirectly) and claims there aren't any English "role models" for men's style and fashion. On the other hand, he tells us that Prince Charles and PM David Cameron don't count because they dress so well. Wait, what? So where's the argument?

So if some drunk crawls out of an alley on Wall St. with a bottle of bourbon and exclaims, "We need to clean these streets up from all deez lousy drunks - except for all deez clean, proppa guys walking around - they can stay," does this really deserve an article? It's like a wolf who interrupted a wolf confrence to cry wolf.

 

[sheeplady]

If you and/or the univsity have a dress code, do not be afraid to enforce it. I would have no issue sending them back to their dorm to get dressed properly. Once they are properly dressed, they are more than welcome in class.

I would love to try that. I'm not sure if my university would back me up. I was more shocked than anything. (I think I asked "Do you want to get your PJs all road salt?)

The vast majority of students do dress appropriately. It is just a very few.

I also have an irrational hate of flip flops and the pants with lettering on the derriere, so I think this clouds my judgement on clothing. I can't imagine how the 'how I met your mother/father' stories will go in a few generations: "I looked across the room and saw this woman with the word 'hottie' on her bottom- I knew it was love at first sight."

 

[rue]

I can't imagine how the 'how I met your mother/father' stories will go in a few generations: "I looked across the room and saw this woman with the word 'hottie' on her bottom- I knew it was love at first sight."

lollollollol I just spit out my drink lol

 

[p71towny]

Meh, people can do what they want. Personally I just want to see people take pride in what they do, not always what they wear. It seems that is where the disconnect is, no pride in anything. People just half-ass their way through life nowadays be it attire, work or home life. I'd rather be full of pride in flannel, than an empty suit. That said, if I were rich I'd mow my lawn in a suit.

 

[Tomasso]

if I were rich I'd mow my lawn in a suite.

Is that what the wealthy do these days, keep lawns in their suites......

 

[p71towny]

Teach me to navigate two windows at once!

 

[anon`]

Oh, but it gets worse. I teach at a residential college, and I have had students come to a 2pm class in the middle of winter wearing pajamas, flip flops, and robes. The class was "Business and Professional Speaking." I had a dress code in my syllabus too.

But it is somewhat scary to me that we are providing young people to offices that still are very strict in how they dress; but I have 19-22 years old sitting in my class that do not know that flip flops and a pair of pants is not business formal (yet alone business casual). These adults go out to interview with no clue that their pink suit or sweater/pants outfit is not appropriate for a bank or law firm, and they have just lost the job the minute they walk into the door. Which I find very sad.

Dock points. Simple as. The one writing-based class we 1Ls get to enjoy has a professionalism portion attached to it. No dress code, but we stand to lose about 20% of out overall grade for "unprofessional behaviour," such as showing up late or not at all, turning in memos late, and the like. I'd just nick points for failure to read and follow the syllabus. But then, I'm also a bit mean...

...as evidenced by the fact that I could not, even if I wanted to, shed a tear for kids who cost themselves a job by not dressing well. One less potential competitor for me to deal with.

 

[Edward]

A lot of British men these days seem to wear beachwear all year round. If the sun is out, so are the 3/4 length shorts and the flip flops. Never mind that its January.
It also seems acceptable these days for men to dress like ovegrown toddlers in the summer. It seems to have reveresed from the pre-war days of 'dressing like your dad' to dressing like your pre-schooler. It's reall most unbecoming, whatever the age of the person wearing it.

Quite. I have often been taken for being much older than my actual age; when I have enquired as to why, I am told is is because I 'dress older', i.e. like an adult.

And don't get me started on the trend to dress your very young daughter like a lapdancer.

Simon Fuller has a lot for which to answer.

Oh, but it gets worse. I teach at a residential college, and I have had students come to a 2pm class in the middle of winter wearing pajamas, flip flops, and robes. The class was "Business and Professional Speaking." I had a dress code in my syllabus too.

But it is somewhat scary to me that we are providing young people to offices that still are very strict in how they dress; but I have 19-22 years old sitting in my class that do not know that flip flops and a pair of pants is not business formal (yet alone business casual). These adults go out to interview with no clue that their pink suit or sweater/pants outfit is not appropriate for a bank or law firm, and they have just lost the job the minute they walk into the door. Which I find very sad.

I don't believe I've ever seen anything quite that bad at a university in the UK - either while a student myself, or in the dozen or so years I have been teaching them. Casual, always - jeans and a shirt / sweater / whatever, most of them - but nothing outright slovenly that I can recall. I hear this quite a lot about the US, though. Is it just coincidence, or do you think that perhaps the fact that kids in the UK will typically have had to wear a uniform through primary and secondary education might be a factor? My postgrads are 80% overseas, though none of them tend to be that slovenly either.... but then they are a touch older than undergraduate kids, and so (usually) that little bit more mature.


As to the substance of the article that sparked this thread....

David Cameron is not a man I regard as a sharp dresser - to be honest, he always looks to me like a little boy dressed up as a businessman. [huh] Prince Charles is never less than immaculately dressed, and either he or his tailor (or both) has (have) exquisite taste. Just a shame for him that he always has the air of a man uncomfortable in his own skin, but it certainly isn't the clothes to blame. I find myself wholly unable to take seriously the notion that the lack of a male monarch has an impact upon British men's style in this day and age, however - whether positive or negative. Far from the notions cherished by both monarchists and republicans alike, the reality is that the average man nowadays simply doesn't care a hoot one way or the other about the monarchy, and is far more likely to be influenced in his manner of dress by someone such as David Beckham, for better or worse. I simply cannot conceive of that changing if and when Charles III takes the throne, or he is bypassed by his eldest son.

 

[Cobden]

I'd agree with the last part; though I'd suggest it has more to do with the nature of what constitutes the "celebrity" class rather than a general change in whom people take their style cues from. It's always been celebrities, merely that whilst gossip columns in the 1930s-60s would have been full of the future Edward VIII, Prince Ranier and Princess Grace, etc. the focus of celebrity focus has moved to people with apparent talent for moving an inflated pigs bladder around a grassy oblong, those who combine acting in northern soaps and inserting illegal substances up their nose and whatever a Jordan is

 

[sheeplady]

Dock points. Simple as. The one writing-based class we 1Ls get to enjoy has a professionalism portion attached to it. No dress code, but we stand to lose about 20% of out overall grade for "unprofessional behaviour," such as showing up late or not at all, turning in memos late, and the like. I'd just nick points for failure to read and follow the syllabus. But then, I'm also a bit mean...

Well, what I said during that class is if you can't follow my rules in the syllabus for professional dress on your speech day, you are prohibited from doing your speech, as in you do not even get to stand up in front of the class. That could have docked them a letter grade and a half (the highest they could earn would be a B if they did all the "extra credit" and received a perfect score on everything else, which was unlikely). No one dressed in pajamas again.

But to be honest, this isn't a problem I have in most of my classes, most students are more professional. I was more stunned than anything else.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I also have an irrational hate of flip flops and the pants with lettering on the derriere, so I think this clouds my judgement on clothing. I can't imagine how the 'how I met your mother/father' stories will go in a few generations: "I looked across the room and saw this woman with the word 'hottie' on her bottom- I knew it was love at first sight."

I can see a college age woman wearing that. But I take issue with when I go out to eat lunch & I see a man & woman with their daughter who is no older than 11 with those same style pants. Unfortuantly, instead of hottie it read a certian word for a lady of the night.