Borsalino Beaver

[macfly]

Everyone loves a nice beaver.....or so they say
I'm starting to get a craving for a borsolino beaver. the stingy model looks particularly interesting but i would take the standard. Anyone on here have one and mind giving your opinion/pictures?
Just looking around online I see nothing under $475. There must be some better deals out there. any help with some places that might have better deals would be much appreciated.
thanks.

 

[Bird's One View]

I have two Borsalino hats: a soft travel fedora and a panama.

Neither is a terrible hat; but both, in retrospect, were dreadfully overpriced for what they are.

 

[Lefty]

Modern Bosalino gets slammed more than modern Stetson, if that's even possible. For $475, either get a custom from Art and have $150 in your pocket, or save another $50 and pick up an Optimo. Once you pass the $200 mark on a new, production hat, you're just wasting money.

This Boso might become a collector's item, even though it's just rabbit.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

I think you're getting great advice here, macfly.

I'm not into much in the way of new hats - production or custom - anymore. I do, however, have six vintage Borsalinos and they are fantastic quality hats. I got the last three as a group (different styles of grey, as new) for $75.00 total or $25.00 per hat.

SO, either go with a custom from Art Fawcett or Major Moore - or be patient and score a vintage Borso' which will typicaly be a far superior hat for way less than the new ones.

 

[macfly]

hmm...thanks all. they are a tad overpriced but since there are folks on here who love hats whatever the price i figured i would ask. i will keep looking around. had never really thought of getting a 'vintage' hat but might just start looking!

 

[animator]

These guys are wise. Once you start spending $300 there isn't any reason not to get a custom hat.

Tons of people swear by vintage and you can find some great quality and fantastic bargains, too.

 

[bolthead]

I agree with Gene here.....

Unless you're looking to get a custom hat, you'd be much better of waiting and trying to find a Vintage Borso instead, trust me, you definitely won't be sorry you did. I like Gene, have 3 Vintage and a Diamanti II that I don't know the age of. I wouldn't trade them for any new Borso out there on the market today. [huh]


I'm actually wearing a vintage "Pocket" Borso in my Avatar, of course it's actually light gray and not the color you all see.

 

[kaosharper1]

If your head tends to the smaller sizes, you'd have it made. A good number of nice looking vintage Borsolinos come up at size 7 and less.

 

[danofarlington]

buying Borsalinos

I have four new-bought fedora Borsalinos and one new Panama Borsalino. The latter from VillageHatShop cost me $950.

I would say this about Borsalinos: One pays for the price of a modern-styled hat. I am planning to buy some vintage Borsalinos on EBay, and from what I see on the forum here the felt quality will be better.

But when I buy a hat I'm buying the style. The felt ln the new hats is good enough for me. I mean, it's not a helmet for a football game, it doesn't have to wear like iron. All the Borsalinos seem to attract positive attention when I am wearing them. For example the Panama--lots of compliments. One guy on the subway sitting with his girlfriend facing me was staring at my hat, shaking his head constantly. He looked for a long time, I couldn't hear what he was saying. Finally the girlfriend says, "yeah, that hat does look nice." Lots of people apparently wished they had the hat, although the price would have scared them off.

What you get from a new Borsalino is today's styling. I think you have to view it in those terms to pay the money. But I do, when I can afford it. You can buy them on EBay or from a yard sale, but the magic of a Borsalino is the blocking. If you buy a new one, don't let anyone mess with the blocking, because you will never get it back to what it was new. No one has Borsalino blocks, no matter what they say. They may get close, but they're not it. I know--my Panama was stepped on; I had to re-block it from a famous hat shop; good job but not the original.

 

[rlk]

I have four new-bought fedora Borsalinos and one new Panama Borsalino. The latter from VillageHatShop cost me $950.

I would say this about Borsalinos: One pays for the price of a modern-styled hat. I am planning to buy some vintage Borsalinos on EBay, and from what I see on the forum here the felt quality will be better.

But when I buy a hat I'm buying the style. The felt ln the new hats is good enough for me. I mean, it's not a helmet for a football game, it doesn't have to wear like iron. All the Borsalinos seem to attract positive attention when I am wearing them. For example the Panama--lots of compliments. One guy on the subway sitting with his girlfriend facing me was staring at my hat, shaking his head constantly. He looked for a long time, I couldn't hear what he was saying. Finally the girlfriend says, "yeah, that hat does look nice." Lots of people apparently wished they had the hat, although the price would have scared them off.

What you get from a new Borsalino is today's styling. I think you have to view it in those terms to pay the money. But I do, when I can afford it. You can buy them on EBay or from a yard sale, but the magic of a Borsalino is the blocking. If you buy a new one, don't let anyone mess with the blocking, because you will never get it back to what it was new. No one has Borsalino blocks, no matter what they say. They may get close, but they're not it. I know--my Panama was stepped on; I had to re-block it from a famous hat shop; good job but not the original.

While I am glad you are pleased with your hats, none of the current Borsalino Panamas is made on a block that hasn't been a common style for most of the last 100 years +. There is nothing new about the styling...Timeless, perhaps.

 

[danofarlington]

blocking

I know they are similar, it is true. But at least to me, the new Borsalinos have an edge in the style. Somehow, in my own opinion, their shaping surpasses the shaping of other hats I see, however similar. If a buyer doesn't think so, welcome to buy another brand and save money. Like I say, when the expensive Panama was re-blocked, it was similar but not the same, and it seemed to lose its magic.

 

[ScottF]

I think you're getting great advice here, macfly.

I'm not into much in the way of new hats - production or custom - anymore. I do, however, have six vintage Borsalinos and they are fantastic quality hats. I got the last three as a group (different styles of grey, as new) for $75.00 total or $25.00 per hat.

SO, either go with a custom from Art Fawcett or Major Moore - or be patient and score a vintage Borso' which will typicaly be a far superior hat for way less than the new ones.

To reinforce Gene's suggestion. I wore a 1950's Borsalino into a hat shop where the owner wears a Borsalino beaver - I don't think I've ever seen him in anything else - his wife saw me remove my hat by the front pinch and chastised me, warning me that you can't get that kind of felt anymore. That was a pretty strong endorsement for vintage Borsos, even if they are rabbit.

Gene, do you know if Borsalino made vintage beavers? I don't recall ever seeing any non-rabbit other than Nutria.

 

[rlk]

To reinforce Gene's suggestion. I wore a 1950's Borsalino into a hat shop where the owner wears a Borsalino beaver - I don't think I've ever seen him in anything else - his wife saw me remove my hat by the front pinch and chastised me, warning me that you can't get that kind of felt anymore. That was a pretty strong endorsement for vintage Borsos, even if they are rabbit.

Gene, do you know if Borsalino made vintage beavers? I don't recall ever seeing any non-rabbit other than Nutria.

Yes, sometimes they say Castoro(Beaver). Others I would guess were sometimes blends. I've seen a few come up on eBay including the Blue one that went over $400.00 last year.
Here's an older Besdor Post:http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=185238&postcount=2

 

[Dinerman]

Gene, do you know if Borsalino made vintage beavers? I don't recall ever seeing any non-rabbit other than Nutria.

I have (parts) of a borsalino made out of "Martora", which translates to "Marten" . I say parts because someone converted the hat to a ladies hat by cutting the crown down about two inches, then sewing it back together and covering the seam with the hat's ribbon, which was flipped the opposite direction. Regardless- an interesting bit of borsalino felt.

 

[rlk]

I know they are similar, it is true. But at least to me, the new Borsalinos have an edge in the style. Somehow, in my own opinion, their shaping surpasses the shaping of other hats I see, however similar. If a buyer doesn't think so, welcome to buy another brand and save money. Like I say, when the expensive Panama was re-blocked, it was similar but not the same, and it seemed to lose its magic.

I completely agree that it is very difficult(or impossible) to find an identical Block in hat shops these days. What I meant is the styles of Panama Hats still current have been around, in and out of style for an extremely long time. Your New Borsalino may well have been pressed on an extremely old block used for decades...

 

[ScottF]

Very interesting stuff.

Blue Beaver Borso?

I hear they are very dangerous.

 

[rlk]

Very interesting stuff.

Blue Beaver Borso?

I hear they are very dangerous.

Looks like Barney mated with a Beaver to produce that. And wearing a baseball cap?

 

[chippy]

I tend to get where Dano is coming from, the modern Borsalino are up to date and trendy, that is always going to cost something. now that i have looked at their site a few times i have noticed a few of their hats (trilby etc) worn on people (often young pretty girls too) even on modern TV adverts, although i havnt yet found any online sites that sell those new models as yet! just the regular models that have been available for some time.

I am wanting a beaver fur felt fedora and have been debating with myself whether and how to choose between, a Borsalino Beaver, Stetson Pinnacle/Benchley, Art Fawcet, Penhman or Optimo custom hat, Sterling beaver i discounted even though they look very nice i think they about $2500 which is unreasonable to me (to say the least!, i could nearly buy a plane ticket across the world to Lock & Co for a custom fitting lol ).

from reading older posts, even though many people often advise vintage Borsa i have eliminated them because i just dont see them for sale much at all, even if i did it would then have to be in my size (more or less) and the condition will vary, also brim size etc, not to mention as a non expert i may or may not be getting a good quality vintage Borsa. so as far as i am concerned a vintage Borsa is to casually seek out, after, i already have my choice beaver fur hat.

I like the idea of getting an Art/VS hat but to a beginner it seems just a bit too hard. looking at the site it doesnt give much (any) info on the details of customisation or different felts (your expected to know i guess, although that doesnt inform me/you exactly what is offered), i have gleaned from this forum that he has lightweight felt but apparently the quality is suspect and being discontinued (which is a shame because light felt would be ideal for me, it is often very hot here), but there is no mention of light weight felt on the site, from a post or two i think i have now learned that Art's hats do offer elongated (uneven if you know what mean) brims e.g. 2 5/8 x 2 3/8 but until i came across this in a post the other day i thought it wasnt a possibility from Art/VS..obviously i could ask by email but if i asked too many questions i would feel both obligated and a pest. a long wait is a negative (understandable though) and i am not sure being in a different country whether his conformature/fitting procedure (by post?) is the same for people that live in the USA.

the other thing that is not perfect is Art hats come open and the bash put in by the owner. i am not sure how well thats holds its shape compared to a hat formed on a shaped block (it would have to be lesser), certainly the occasional hat i have seen from happy customers showing pics of their VS hat look somewhat untidy to me (as a dress hat), perhaps, because of their lack of 'bash' skills, sometimes i have seen untidy looking wind cords as well, although mostly i havnt seen them on Art's hats, but i think he might offer that option.

I really like the look of Optimo hats, the site looks professional. again i am not sure how the fitting procedure would work as yet..on the positive i really like the way he does his bows. those type of bows are much nicer than what i have seen from anyone else although Sterling beaver has some extraordinary efforts. i think if i could, i would like a bow done from Optimo with the centre of the bow shape (knot) similar to a couple i have seen from Sterling beaver. the negative about the Optimo hats of course is the $500 hats are not 100% beaver (that costs $1000!!) and at this stage i dont know what % beaver they are?

the stetson 100% beaver hats seem ok (elongated brim which i like-in a size i can live with) from pics on the net. from reading many, many posts a possible negative might be the edge of the brim may develop waves. i suspect that having a brim edge ribbon sewn on may eliminate that without too much added cost, the stetson Benchley 100% beaver already has the edge binding to brim and it would appear nobody has mentioned a wave of any kind forming, the drawback is, it is a C crown, if you are after a centre dent like the Pinnacle, also no wind cord

the 100% Penhman hat looks nice, perhaps a little untidy on a couple i have seen (they come open as well), the ribbon looked a little tight and deformed the crown slightly, otherwise they appear to be about the same value as Art Fawcet hats

the Borsalino 100% beaver is about the same price as an Optimo part beaver hat. as much as i have read people complaining about how the quality of modern Borsa hats are not up to the standard of vintage, i havnt heard anyone complaining about the quality of modern 100% beaver Borsalino (except for the odd person that doesn't like the modern shape, which is after all nothing but a personal preference). On the positives for me it has a formed shape/bash, middle to light weight felt from what i have read, has wind cord built in. on the neg is the price is the high side but it is an establish brand, like it or not that drives the price up somewhat, but then so does anything coming out of Italy nowadays

so you see, i am having real trouble choosing between these [huh] . atm i am leaning toward the Stetson Pinnacle (dimensions/formed bash/beaver value for money)..but love the Optimo for perfection , some VS hats look fantastic but i'm not sure it looks that easy to me (procedure and nice looking professional bash), i would possibly end up with a nice casual messy hat, which is fine on its own, but atm i want something dress perfect too)..the Borso if i dont mind spending more (over a stetson) to get the wind cord and brim without possible brim wave problems[huh]

of course my other (albeit crazy) alternative is to buy a new beaver blank (60+ euro from adventure built), a plastic mould and do most of myself, sanding etc and get some local hatter to sew a brim binding on and maybe a ribbon lol lol thats how desperate and crazy this is sending me

 

[Jauntyone]

the other thing that is not perfect is Art hats come open and the bash put in by the owner. i am not sure how well thats holds its shape compared to a hat formed on a shaped block (it would have to be lesser), certainly the occasional hat i have seen from happy customers showing pics of their VS hat look somewhat untidy to me (as a dress hat), perhaps, because of their lack of 'bash' skills, sometimes i have seen untidy looking wind cords as well, although mostly i havnt seen them on Art's hats, but i think he might offer that option.

I always ask Art to send my hats open-crowned, but I'm pretty sure he'll pre-crease it for you if you ask.
Just remember, that "untidy" look is not only historically more accurate, but will set your hat apart from the mass-produced, cookie-cutter hats that are not able to be personalized by their owners. A stamped-in crease is a bit like a clip-on necktie; it looks a little too perfect.

 

[Art Fawcett]

I like the idea of getting an Art/VS hat but to a beginner it seems just a bit too hard. looking at the site it doesnt give much (any) info on the details of customisation or different felts (your expected to know i guess, although that doesnt inform me/you exactly what is offered), i have gleaned from this forum that he has lightweight felt but apparently the quality is suspect and being discontinued (which is a shame because light felt would be ideal for me, it is often very hot here), but there is no mention of light weight felt on the site, from a post or two i think i have now learned that Art's hats do offer elongated (uneven if you know what mean) brims e.g. 2 5/8 x 2 3/8 but until i came across this in a post the other day i thought it wasnt a possibility from Art/VS..obviously i could ask by email but if i asked too many questions i would feel both obligated and a pest. a long wait is a negative (understandable though) and i am not sure being in a different country whether his conformature/fitting procedure (by post?) is the same for people that live in the USA.

the other thing that is not perfect is Art hats come open and the bash put in by the owner. i am not sure how well thats holds its shape compared to a hat formed on a shaped block (it would have to be lesser), certainly the occasional hat i have seen from happy customers showing pics of their VS hat look somewhat untidy to me (as a dress hat), perhaps, because of their lack of 'bash' skills, sometimes i have seen untidy looking wind cords as well, although mostly i havnt seen them on Art's hats, but i think he might offer that option.

Hi Chippy, I see you are carrying some misinformation so I'd like to clarify for you.
My site is minimal for a reason as it leaves open most possibilities and that is intentional. I did not and do not want to make a Gent's first hat so I'm not geared for the "newbie". One of the reasons is a problem I am having right now. I custom built a hat almost a year ago for a gent ( his first hat) and last week got it back ( yes, after one year) saying he just didn't look good in it and wanted a refund.
My intention is to make hats for those that appreciate the artwork in them and therefore I don't intend to educate through my site. I personally cannot imagine packing a library of info like others try to do. I also don't want to sell brushes, stiffner, cleaning products, etc like others. In short I try very hard to be different.
I make hats for folks all over the world and yes, the process does not change depending on your location. Please see a hat I made for "cookie" on the Lounge, also from down under.
I can see where you might think that all of my crowns come open but that is definitely NOT the case. Since you have been in contact with Sterling I can guess where most of the mis info came from, just please take everything coming from there with a huge lump of salt.
I do offer windcords but since I only use vintage cords instead of those cheap imitations used by other hatters, my color range is limited. If I don't have one that works, I don't put one on.
In summary, I'm sorry you feel the process is too "hard" but I can do very little about that. As I tried to state earlier, I do not want to make hats for "the masses" and therefore don't feel the expense in time and money would be productive for me.