Born in a suit?

[Feraud]

JW has a point. Discussion will naturally wander but let's try to keep on topic.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

I really started this thread to be a discussion about the details that make someone look natural and sharp in a suit (like they'd been born in a suit) instead of a slob in a suit, but I see it has spun out of control into the usual how long I've worn a suit and why "I wear a suit when those about me don't" mess.

OK, the single detail that makes one look natural and sharp in a suit is his natural attire is a SUIT! If one only wears a suit on special occasions he will NEVER look natural and sharp. He will look like someone who only wears suits when he is required to do so. If that suit is expensive and well tailored he will look like a RICH guy who only wears suits when required. If that suit is something his wife bought off the rack he will look like a guy who's wife buys his clothes because he only wears suits when she requires.

 

[Undertow]

I really started this thread to be a discussion about the details that make someone look natural and sharp in a suit (like they'd been born in a suit) instead of a slob in a suit...

Not trying to be smart here (god knows that), but I think BK basically summed it up in the very first response on this thread. [huh]

I don't think it's quite fair to deride someone for appearing as if they weren't "born in a suit" on one particular day, or during one particular week. Sure, we can "ha-ha" about how dumb they look, and how they've not been "born into a suit", but essentially, we're just discussing how sloppy they are, and how little training they may have had.

If we're discussing "Do some people have more confidence than others", or, "Do some people know how to coordinate effectively?", or perhaps, "Are there people that simply don't know how to pick out an ensemble," that's one thing.

But if all this thread is discussing is, "How sloppy could some poor dope possibly be, compared to myself - the epicenter of style?" then I think we've done that ad nauseam.

Perhaps you could point us in a more specific direction, JW?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Not trying to be smart here (god knows that), but I think BK basically summed it up in the very first response on this thread. [huh]

Ha ha. that was the point of that post.

Important/essential as it is, with the help of a colour wheel and some sense of aesthetics all the other stuff can be learned. You can't teach a badly cut suit to be well cut. [huh]

How many people here wear a flower every day? I do during the summer when I have a jacket properly equipped. It's quite challenging aesthetically to get the right flower. But a flower (or manicured nails, whatever) is irrelevant if the suit doesn't fit.

bk

 

[Undertow]

Important/essential as it is, with the help of a colour wheel and some sense of aesthetics all the other stuff can be learned. You can't teach a badly cut suit to be well cut. [huh]
...But a flower (or manicured nails, whatever) is irrelevant if the suit doesn't fit.

Exactly! And that's why I'm wondering what direction JW would like to take this.

Take some pitiful bum off the street who's shopped at Wal-Mart his whole life and thinks slacks are like-minded coworkers, dressed in sweat pants, crocs and mustard stained A-shirt....

Give him a sharp haircut, trim/clean his nails, throw in a nice pocket square, throw on some decent cufflinks and reasonable wristwatch, put him in a gray gabardine 3pc, push on a couple of polished black cap toes, and even top it off with a center dent Dobbs - and that guy could be Charles Manson - but at least he'll look put together.

[directed at JW] So should we be chewing the fat over:
The Dumbest Comment I Ever Heard

or

Buttoning your jacket

OR, were you just wanting opinions on various tell-tale signs that an individual doesn't know how to pull it all off?

 

[Tomasso]

Take some pitiful bum off the street.....Give him a sharp haircut, trim/clean his nails, throw in a nice pocket square, throw on some decent cufflinks and reasonable wristwatch, put him in a gray gabardine 3pc, push on a couple of polished black cap toes.....

Either Esquire or GQ actually did this maybe twenty or so years ago. Took them right off the street. I think they even paid to have their teeth fixed.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

OR, were you just wanting opinions on various tell-tale signs that an individual doesn't know how to pull it all off?

The individual who is at home in a suit doesn't need to "pull it all off." Those who need to "pull it all off" seldom manage to do so.

Clothes don't make the man but clothes can break the man.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Oh Dear.

Now entering Aphorismville, Pop. infinite, a sure signpost that a thread is on its way out.

 

[Richard Warren]

Now entering Aphorismville, Pop. infinite, a sure signpost that a thread is on its way out.

Damn. I was just about to give it the mot juste.

 

[Undertow]

Now entering Aphorismville, Pop. infinite, a sure signpost that a thread is on its way out.

lol

:deadhorse :kick:

 

[JimWagner]

There are quite a few people who inhabit the FL who are just getting into suits. I see them in many threads. What I wanted were some actual tips and guidelines that some of you apparently think everyone just automatically know but really don't that go beyond simply thinking that you can spend a small fortune on a suit and achieve a good look.

No, I don't want a finger pointing thread about bad examples. I listed some things that make a positive difference in how you can look.

It's NOT about looking down on anyone at all.

It's certainly true that there are other places on the internet where sartorial tips can be found. Why not here too?

If you don't think a thread like that might be useful here then feel free to ignore this one.

If the bartenders think that a thread like that has no place here then feel free to lock it.

 

[Undertow]

So shall we all assume the cut is correct and you know how to wear a suit?

That said, I think coordination is a big factor, and not coordination by color necessarily, but also by pattern and style.

I think those interested in roleplaying may feel it necessary to uniformily coordinate. For instance, one could wear a plain white pocket square with their blue and black striped tie and blue pinstripe suit.

But perhaps someone with style would save the white pocket square for a subtley windowpane patterened square, and the checks could be a dark gray or even brown. Set that off with a brown hat, or perhaps brown belt and watch strap?

The devil's in the details!

 

[B.J. Hedberg]

Well, good tailoring and being used to wearing a suit certainly help, but the things I hoped others would mention are things like these (in no particular order):

1. Posture. Don't slouch. Stand straight, shoulders back, but not stiffly. It is possible to stand straight without being all tensed up and rigid.

2. Keep your hands out of your pockets.

3. Keep still - don't fidget. Move smoothly with purpose and not all gawky like a kid.

4. Wear socks that don't sag down around your ankles.

5. Make sure your shirt fits properly. If the neck is too tight you'll be and look very uncomfortable and if it's too loose you'll just look sloppy.

6. Tie your tie properly and keep it snugged up and centered.

7. Try not to be so self conscious.

8. Get a decent adult haircut and keep it groomed or combed properly. It's part of the whole look.

9. Keep your fingernails cut and clean.

10. Keep your suit pressed and clean. A little starch in that shirt wouldn't hurt either.

The list can go on quite a bit.

A lot of it is basic grooming, but if you look closely at someone who looks out of place in a suit you'll see any number of those things missed.

It takes more than just putting on a suit to look sharp. If all those things are obvious to you and habitual then you probably look good in a suit.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with your list. It contains just about everything I was thinking of.

I think the key is that they have to hit those points and not have to adjust their tie or anything else while in public view ever, even if it isn’t what you’d call a fidgety move.

Once you see them make an adjustment of any type, it sticks in your mind the next time you encounter them. Besides me, a good example of one who fails at this is our Federal Treasury Secretary; it seems his tie is always off kilter – makes him look like a fish out of water. If it was right on, he’d probably look like he lived in a suit to me, as I never see him (on TV) violate any of your other major points. They have to be self conscious, without looking like they are.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Nothing yet about shoes?

Elegant shoes are not difficult to source, at a good price point. Most of the people I see - highly paid professional people - seem incapable of finding elegant shoes. They wear these awful clumpy-soled things seemingly several sizes too big for them. You can have the best suit in the world, hand tailored, the works; but with awful shoes, you're going to look bad.

But again, this can be learned. Anyone who looks like they were born in a suit has learned everything being discussed above. (Though honestly, I don't get the fingernails thing. I don't think that I have ever focussed on someone's finger nails.[huh] )

But they also have nicely fitted fitted suits, which can't be learned. Without a suit that fits, all the attention to detail and fripperies in the world, you'll still look bad.

bk

 

[Mario]

9. Keep your fingernails cut and clean.

Hmmm...

I play guitar. Fingerstyle guitar. My left hand nails are kept short, the nails on the right are a good deal longer. They need to be long. Of course they're all kept clean. How do I fit in here? [huh]

 

[JimWagner]

Hmmm...

I play guitar. Fingerstyle guitar. My left hand nails are kept short, the nails on the right are a good deal longer. They need to be long. Of course they're all kept clean. How do I fit in here? [huh]

As long as your nails are fairly uniform and clean on your picking hand it isn't all that big a deal.

 

[JimWagner]

Nothing yet about shoes?

Elegant shoes are not difficult to source, at a good price point. Most of the people I see - highly paid professional people - seem incapable of finding elegant shoes. They wear these awful clumpy-soled things seemingly several sizes too big for them. You can have the best suit in the world, hand tailored, the works; but with awful shoes, you're going to look bad.

But they also have nicely fitted fitted suits, which can't be learned. Without a suit that fits, all the attention to detail and fripperies in the world, you'll still look bad.

bk

Agreed.

I'd add that the color of the shoes matter. I'm not a fan myself of brown shoes with blue or gray suits for example.

I think that shoes and belts should match up fairly closely.

And belts that are intended for blue jeans don't go with suits.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

There are quite a few people who inhabit the FL who are just getting into suits. I see them in many threads. What I wanted were some actual tips and guidelines that some of you apparently think everyone just automatically know but really don't that go beyond simply thinking that you can spend a small fortune on a suit and achieve a good look.

What context?

A younger person who just got his first job that requires wearing a suit should look at what the more senior men are wearing and do that. Those are the people who will be deciding on promotions so they are the important ones. You don't want to be known as "the kid who wears the weird suits."

If the suit is for purely social occasions best to stay close to whatever the currently accepted style is. Not too close to the edge but close enough to look proper.

If the intent is to wear suits pretty much all the time go for a more "classic" look that won't go out of fashion so quickly. This is the most difficult since you really need to create a personal style that tells people you know what you are doing and aren't particularly concerned with fads. If you are wearing vintage suits try not to mix up the decades too much. Few would notice but some will.

In all cases, the most important thing to me is tailoring. A few well-done alterations can be the difference between a suit that fits well and looks good and a suit that just hangs there, sagging in some places and chafing in others.

Make sure your shirt fits. If your face goes all red every time you fasten the top button your shirt doesn't fit. If your sleeves pull half way up your arm every time you reach for something your shirt doesn't fit.

Wear SILK ties! They don't have to be expensive but once you've worn silk you won't even consider putting one of those polyester nooses around your neck again. If you've never worn a tie then wear one around at home until you get so accustomed to it you forget it is there. Then you will be able to avoid constantly fiddling with it.

 

[davestlouis]

I agree about the belts, with the understanding that I don't normally see much of the belt, but have seen woven leather, or big gaudy buckles, etc. Overcoats are a dead giveaway...a long wool coat makes all the difference, as opposed to all of the sportswear coats I see people wearing.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

OK, the single detail that makes one look natural and sharp in a suit is his natural attire is a SUIT! If one only wears a suit on special occasions he will NEVER look natural and sharp. He will look like someone who only wears suits when he is required to do so. If that suit is expensive and well tailored he will look like a RICH guy who only wears suits when required. If that suit is something his wife bought off the rack he will look like a guy who's wife buys his clothes because he only wears suits when she requires.

I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I used to work as a deputy. On a daily basis, we had to wear a uniform, but when providing court room security, we would be required to dress appropriately.

There were some that looked good in a uniform, but like slobs in a suit. And, there were some that looked like they were on their way to a GQ shoot, even though the suit was only worn once in a while.