Bill Kelso dark seal Liberty horse

[pipvh]

A couple of more or less deadstock prewar leather jackets I've handled did feel very much like vinyl.

when I tried on the BK jackets they have in American Classics (London) I thought the leather had bags of character. Light but not flimsy. I don't know whether they where Liberty or Victory, though.

 

[pawineguy]

Andy has responded via Facebook:

"Just to clarify and put at ease some recent concerns about our Liberty horsehide.
Yes, what we did with Liberty horsehide was to replicate exactly (100%) vintage horsehide.
The whole thing was done in a scientific manner by our tannery.
We developed these leathers for the purists. Those who look to buy exact replicas of original vintage jackets.
With this leather we literally resurrected vintage leather jackets and can now offer you jackets that look exactly like NOS vintage jackets.
Other makers use various kinds of leathers but their jackets never look right. They never look real.
We too have used various leathers before and the jackets came out beautiful but something was missing. It was the real vintage look. No one was able to provide that. Not until now. The Liberty horsehide is tanned in the vintage way and will also age like originals. Daily wear of about 6 months will be enough for the jacket to show patina and aging of the same kind often encountered on originals.
And yes, Liberty horsehide is the same with the horsehide offered by competitors, coming from exactly the same source, but tanned in a completely different manner, the specifics of which are patented and a trade secret."

 

[nick123]

It always seemed like the Victory horse was crafted to look or quickly wear to look like a well worn/vintaged jacket versus a newly issued one. I don't recall much talk about that specifically in the past, but when the original/repro comparisons were put side to side, they looked very close, but given the original was an old jacket with character. I think the Liberty looks closer to a newly issued jacket.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Andy has responded via Facebook:

"Just to clarify and put at ease some recent concerns about our Liberty horsehide.
Yes, what we did with Liberty horsehide was to replicate exactly (100%) vintage horsehide.
The whole thing was done in a scientific manner by our tannery.
We developed these leathers for the purists. Those who look to buy exact replicas of original vintage jackets.
With this leather we literally resurrected vintage leather jackets and can now offer you jackets that look exactly like NOS vintage jackets.
Other makers use various kinds of leathers but their jackets never look right. They never look real.
We too have used various leathers before and the jackets came out beautiful but something was missing. It was the real vintage look. No one was able to provide that. Not until now. The Liberty horsehide is tanned in the vintage way and will also age like originals. Daily wear of about 6 months will be enough for the jacket to show patina and aging of the same kind often encountered on originals.
And yes, Liberty horsehide is the same with the horsehide offered by competitors, coming from exactly the same source, but tanned in a completely different manner, the specifics of which are patented and a trade secret."

I like BK products but the tone of this is borderline smug and totally lacks a cohesive argument. It's "we're better than the others because we're better than the others." Having said that I like the look of their flat finish leather. I don't care for grain for its own sake. I like a good color and a flat hide surface. Wrinkles and and honest wear are enough. A Californian in Victory sounds like the prefect jacket.

 

[Otter]

Andy has responded via Facebook:

"Just to clarify and put at ease some recent concerns about our Liberty horsehide.
Yes, what we did with Liberty horsehide was to replicate exactly (100%) vintage horsehide.
The whole thing was done in a scientific manner by our tannery.
We developed these leathers for the purists. Those who look to buy exact replicas of original vintage jackets.
With this leather we literally resurrected vintage leather jackets and can now offer you jackets that look exactly like NOS vintage jackets.
Other makers use various kinds of leathers but their jackets never look right. They never look real.
We too have used various leathers before and the jackets came out beautiful but something was missing. It was the real vintage look. No one was able to provide that. Not until now. The Liberty horsehide is tanned in the vintage way and will also age like originals. Daily wear of about 6 months will be enough for the jacket to show patina and aging of the same kind often encountered on originals.
And yes, Liberty horsehide is the same with the horsehide offered by competitors, coming from exactly the same source, but tanned in a completely different manner, the specifics of which are patented and a trade secret."

I see their rhetoric hasn't changed . Still bashing the competition.

 

[Superfluous]

Andy has responded via Facebook:

". . . . Other makers use various kinds of leathers but their jackets never look right. They never look real."

BK is the only company on the planet that is able to make a leather jacket that "looks right." Not Goodwear . . . not Eastman . . . not Real McCoy . . . not Aero . . . not Himel . . . no one else makes a leather jacket that "looks right." Only BK.

Andy has responded via Facebook:

"The whole thing was done in a scientific manner by our tannery."

Maybe so, but the "science" produced a flat, lifeless leather akin to vinyl.

Andy has responded via Facebook:

"Daily wear of about 6 months will be enough for the jacket to show patina and aging of the same kind often encountered on originals."

So, all I have to do is wear my jacket 182 days and it will "show patina and aging of the same kind often encountered on originals." That may be fine for some people. However, I live desert adjacent, where the climate only permits me to wear a leather jacket a few months a year. During those select months, I rotate several leather jackets, along with several non-leather jackets. Thus, it would take me over 18 years to develop a patina on a BK jacket. Hence the reason why I prefer jackets that have character and grain from day one.

Notwithstanding Andy's questionable approach, I really wanted to like BK's jackets. I really wanted everything that Andy said about BK's leather to be true. Unfortunately, the leather did not live up to my expectations. To be clear, I am not suggesting that the leather is not right for others. As I previously stated, those seeking the finish that Andy/BK scientifically engineered will likely be pleased with the Liberty HH. It is merely a matter of personal preference and, in the end, the Liberty HH does not meet my personal preference.

 

[Edward]

"patented and a trade secret"? I suspect Andy knows more about leather than he does intellectual property law. At least, I hope so!

 

[Sloan1874]

I see their rhetoric hasn't changed . Still bashing the competition.

And their previous jackets! I'd be quite annoyed if, six months down the line, the person who sold me something then told everybody it was substandard, as seems to be BK's shtick. I've seen their patented 'resurrected' leather jackets down in American Classics, and was not bowled over. I'd slip around to the Real McCoy's and pick up one of their jackets - same price and to me, a superior product.

 

[pawineguy]

Notwithstanding Andy's questionable approach, I really wanted to like BK's jackets. I really wanted everything that Andy said about BK's leather to be true. Unfortunately, the leather did not live up to my expectations. To be clear, I am not suggesting that the leather is not right for others. As I previously stated, those seeking the finish that Andy/BK scientifically engineered will likely be pleased with the Liberty HH. It is merely a matter of personal preference and, in the end, the Liberty HH does not meet my personal preference.

Even with all the nonsense from Andy, I too want to like the jackets, to have another option... and have come close multiple times to pulling the trigger, knowing there are enough BK fans that I could re-sell the jacket to if I wasn't pleased. Then without fail, he posts something like this and my enthusiasm wanes.

 

[pawineguy]

And their previous jackets! I'd be quite annoyed if, six months down the line, the person who sold me something then told everybody it was substandard, as seems to be BK's shtick. I've seen their patented 'resurrected' leather jackets down in American Classics, and was not bowled over. I'd slip around to the Real McCoy's and pick up one of their jackets - same price and to me, a superior product.

They'd make an American ad exec blush over the number of "new and improved" claims they make per year.

 

[Otter]

They'd make an American ad exec blush over the number of "new and improved" claims they make per year.

But does it wash whiter and come in a new 25% larger family size? :faint:

 

[walterwhyte]

Also been thinking about a Kelso jacket for some time , but then just when i get close to pulling the trigger they either come out with comments like above that i find really distasteful , or they rubbish their previous 'this is the best leather' and announce that their new leather is now the best ? [huh] . How long do we have to wait until they have the finest full grian veg tanned unicorn front quarters , that blow Victory out of the water ?

They have slightly contradicted them selves ( not for the first time ). There new leather is Scientifically developed , yet at the same time is tanned in the old traditional ways ( i'm sure not much science involved ? )

 

[Sloan1874]

If they just adopted a less aggressive approach to selling, it's not as if they're standing in The Barras, they'd get a whole lot further. Sheesh.

 

[Edward]

Ah, the Barras.... I'd love to see them try! Only place in the world I've seen second hand, 70s porn mags, IRA propaganda posters and a chiropodist all under one roof! :lol:

 

[handymike]

I don't care if the leather my jacket is made from is "the best". I care that I like it, and it works for my situation.

 

[Superfluous]

I don't care if the leather my jacket is made from is "the best". I care that I like it, and it works for my situation.

Amen brutha!!! Likewise, I don't care if the leather is the best replication of NOS vintage leather. I am not a "purist" in this regard. If the original NOS leather looked and felt like vinyl until it was worn in, I would prefer that the repro be made from one of the more interesting leathers that is currently available.

 

[handymike]

That's the beauty of a repro. You can have the best of both (vintage design with modern options).

 

[Superfluous]

That's the beauty of a repro. You can have the best of both (vintage design with modern options).

Amen!

 

[chamboid]

I own three jackets from BK in three different hides, the 'premium' horse, Liberty Horse and Badalssi Steer. All very good jackets, all very good leathers, but different. The Liberty is like vintage leather, likely hat found on A-2's and pre-1950's leathers. They can be quite flat, but with wear pop grain, and character, I'll post some pictures of my Hercules in Liberty. I believe I was one of the first to receive this hide and certainly the jacket, so has a bit of wear tonit, and is a joy to wear, the weight is correct to older leathers. And so is the drape. It's does show edge wear, as it was designed to like vintage leathers, this was stated when first being introduced. But also working in retail, you see samples, you say yes, you have a jacket made, you receive it but the leather doesn't have the ideal trophy jacket grain, or weight or colour. Whose responsibility is that?

I think the expectancy is always the best part for most people, but the idea of an ideal might be always put of reach to sole people.

The Liberty is a good leather, same as other high end producers, granted they don't push their achievements with such verbosity as BK, and no it's not a desirable quality, but the product is excellent. If you want a 'substantial' more 'durable' leather look at different manufacturers, get samples of leather. But don't knock a manufacturers leather which is designed to be and sold itself as being the correct weight, and tanning as vintage leathers.

Everyone has an ideal, but before you invest to much in an ideal have a point of reference, be it a vintage jacket, or samples of leather from different sources.

 

[kojax]

bill kelso a2 jacket

i got this bill kelso a2 from bill couple of years ago the jacket is horsehide nobody knows what make of horsehide it is bill told me horsehide leather