Bill Kelso A-2's - What's the consensus?

[3onaMatch]

The Bill Kelso A-2's are looking pretty smashing these days. That seal color with the reddish tones is particularly attractive. So o.k. A-2 gurus, where do these in the hierarchy of repro manufacturers? I know the details of the contracts are not spot-on, but they seem to be competitive with the Japanese and NZ makers. To my mind they are more authentic than Eastman and Aero. I dunno, what do you guys think?

 

[nick123]

I can't compare them with the likes of aero or Eastman, but mine is beautiful. Having some issues with sizing, but they have my highest regards.

 

[kojax]

i have a bill kelso a-2 contract dubow darkseal horsehide coming in a couple of weeks i will let you know, i have a real mccoy a2 jacket i paid alot of money for it not a great jacket,

 

[majormajor]

To my mind they are more authentic than Eastman and Aero.

In what way, specifically?

 

[3onaMatch]

Oh, I dunno. The collars on the Kelsos look to be more in line with the originals than the collars on the Eastmans. Leather thickness of the Aeros is a major factor that throw them off, which it seems that the BK's are closer to original weight. Just some thoughts.... I know Goodwear's are tops in the authenticity department, but who's 2nd? Maybe the Kelsos?

 

[pak]

If 100% authenticity is the goal then would country of origin, manufacture and materials, be a consideration?

 

[3onaMatch]

Well if those criteria were considered then it wouldn't possible to get any A-2 authentic. Even Goodwear sources hides from overseas. I was thinking more in the line of aesthetics and choice of material types and construction.

 

[Justhandguns]

Oh, I dunno. The collars on the Kelsos look to be more in line with the originals than the collars on the Eastmans. Leather thickness of the Aeros is a major factor that throw them off, which it seems that the BK's are closer to original weight. Just some thoughts.... I know Goodwear's are tops in the authenticity department, but who's 2nd? Maybe the Kelsos?

I think it is difficult to tell about the authenticity. You have to have some common denominators to judge, plus one or two originals from the similar contracts.

Aero only offers their Aero range plus the Bronco and an unknow contract. John has the most extensive range, Eastman, obviously missing the Dubow and the Aero repro (their .50Cal steerhide jacket is actually an Aero btw), Kelso has some Roughwears, Dubow and Monarch.

I guess if someone can compare the most common Roughwear 27752 among ELC, Goodwear and BK (FYI Buzz Rockson and Real McCoy JP also have it), you will find the pros and cons easily. But until somebody is going to buy them all, it would be difficult to compare.

 

[Aerojoe]

I have owned BK, Aero and ELC A-2s. BK is the best from my view. I haven't tried GW yet but I will

 

[Justhandguns]

Oh, I dunno. The collars on the Kelsos look to be more in line with the originals than the collars on the Eastmans. Leather thickness of the Aeros is a major factor that throw them off, which it seems that the BK's are closer to original weight. Just some thoughts.... I know Goodwear's are tops in the authenticity department, but who's 2nd? Maybe the Kelsos?

I think it is difficult to tell about the authenticity. You have to have some common denominators to judge, plus one or two originals from the similar contracts.

Aero only offers their Aero range plus the Bronco and an unknow contract. John has the most extensive range, Eastman, obviously missing the Dubow and the Aero repro (their .50Cal steerhide jacket is actually an Aero btw), Kelso has some Roughwears, Dubow and Monarch.

I guess if someone can compare the most common Roughwear 27752 among ELC, Goodwear and BK (FYI Buzz Rockson and Real McCoy JP also have it), you will find the pros and cons easily. But until somebody is going to buy them all, it would be difficult to compare.

 

[cuthbert]

I think the most authentic jacket BK makes are their Navy M-422.

I have one and their goatskin is superb.

 

[majormajor]

Oh, I dunno. The collars on the Kelsos look to be more in line with the originals than the collars on the Eastmans.

I know that they are currently denying it, but EVERY new Kelso jacket, in their new expensive hide, that I have seen in the last few days on here has DEFINITELY had Hot Water work done on the collar.

To say that the collar is gonna adopt a particular shape like that, just based on the hide, is completely bizarre.

The stakes are obviously getting higher in the "mine is best" stakes, but manufacturers like Kelso should not imagine that we are fools:eeek:

 

[andyfalzon]

That's interesting.
But no we don't do any hot water treatment, or any other kind of treatment to the jackets.
It's both impractical and uneconomical.

We are currently doing some final fine tuning to our jackets and will be ready soon (I guess end December). Then we will be able to present one of our jackets for comparison. Anyone here who thinks he has the best jacket (repro of course) is welcome to contact us. We will send him a jacket to compare with his best and give his honest opinion to the forum. (This offer of ours stands for Europe based people only, sorry to USA friends, but don't want to risk with customs.)

 

[Dr H]

Hi Andy
Are you still planning an A-1? If so, I'd like to compare it with my experience of ELC and GW if the offer extends.
Cheers
Ian

 

[andyfalzon]

My above post refers to A-2. But yes, we will make an A-1 and you can compare that too. Might take a little longer though.

 

[Dr H]

My above post refers to A-2. But yes, we will make an A-1 and you can compare that too. Might take a little longer though.

Thought that it might, but keep me in the loop anyway. Having owned multiple copies of the ELC A-1 (42 and 44) and GW A-1 (older domestic US capeskin, Italian capeskin and soon the current domestic US capeskin), I'll be very interested to see how it compares.

 

[Brettafett]

That's interesting.
We are currently doing some final fine tuning to our jackets and will be ready soon (I guess end December).

Hi Andy, what kind of fine-tuning?
Is the end of December ETA, also referring to the 'Victory' horsehide availability?

 

[majormajor]

That's interesting.
But no we don't do any hot water treatment, or any other kind of treatment to the jackets.
It's both impractical and uneconomical.

We are currently doing some final fine tuning to our jackets and will be ready soon (I guess end December). Then we will be able to present one of our jackets for comparison. Anyone here who thinks he has the best jacket (repro of course) is welcome to contact us. We will send him a jacket to compare with his best and give his honest opinion to the forum. (This offer of ours stands for Europe based people only, sorry to USA friends, but don't want to risk with customs.)

The contention that ANY kind of hide, no matter how good quality, can instinctively "know" it is part of a collar, and can therefore take on the right "relaxed"shape from new, without any wearing, is SO stupid, that it insults the intelligence of this forum. Call it "fine tuning" if you like, but those jackets are not adopting a worn look on their own.

This is taking the "who makes the best A2" debate to foolish heights. Or should that be depths......

Enough said

 

[Jeff M]

Have not had the opportunity to get my hands on one of their new A2 line.
I do own one of their M 422's, a Willis and Geiger, received it a couple of months ago.
If thinking of purchasing one, I would definitely contact BK about sizing.

I take a size 44 jacket....A2, G1, M422, and ordered accordingly.
Comparing it to vintage G1's and Good Wear offerings ranging in size from 42 thru 46 which fit me fine.

The jacket is put together well.
Size wise....I'd say it is more of a "Size 44 if you have a pot belly and stand 6'3". The body length and arm length are way too long for me. The chest and shoulders fit fine...the torso too big.
I gave the jacket to my son, who stands 6'3"...and the length is perfect for him. Torso fit still too large.

The mouton is first rate.
The goatskin is stiff. On a scale from 1 thru 10, with 1 being soft and 10 being stiff, I'd give the BK a 7, with my vintage M422's and G1's being a 1 and my GW's a 2.
Hopefully the leather will soften up over time. A member of the VLJ forum who also owns a BK M 422 noted he has been wearing his daily for 4 months and given it several hot water misting treatments without any sign of wear...so who knows.

Some photos (hopefully).

My size 44 BK M422 W&G;

A vintage size 42 Edmund T. Chuch M422;

A size 46 Goodwear M422 Monarch;

 

[St. Valentine]

I think it looks good! Maybe too long in the torso for a "war time fit" but definetely more practically in everyday use I suppose. Ah, if it weren´t for the sizing I´d have bought another A-2 long ago. My first two A-2´s were too big. Looking at the Kelso-website I can´t find particular hints about sizing apart from to "go up one size if you´re between two sizes". The best thing is that they are located in Europe so I could sent the jacket back and get another one.