Better fit

[Matt Deckard]

A very obscure image

The top scoop is the neck area
the side scoop is the arm area

Better pics are needed and will be posted soon to illustrate and clear up some things.

 

[Canadave]

Modern or vintage?

 

[MudInYerEye]

Regarding what Matt and Martin were discussing about A-2 a few posts back, my recently acquired Buzz Rickson's Rough Wear is patterned WAY more authenically than any Eastman or even Aero I've owned. The armholes are extremely high and quite narrow, the torso is snug without being constricting, very much like originals. If at all posiible to acquire a Buzz or RMJ A-2 my advice is make it happen. The Japanese are way ahead of re-capturing what is behind us.

 

[BellyTank]

Yes!

Now here's another post that is touching on another thread or being in one..

I really DO try my best to not bash Eastman and Aero too, bless 'em- but they still don't get it near spot-on, especially ELC- such a shame considering all their noise and vast reference material..

High armholes please!!!

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[Matt Deckard]

So Who has vintage flight jackets, and how do the armoholes compare?

Can we get some pics with your arms straight out to your sides to see how far the shoulders lift?

 

[BellyTank]

Sorry- I've all but given up trying to find the best now- sold all of mine.
But from my experience, as others will surely agree- 'The Real McCoys' and 'Buzz Rickson' get it right in the fit department. The Japanese are absolutely detail oriented- right down to remanufacturing pre-war and wartime zippers.

I have had two RMC's A-2s and their fit is consistently trimmer and they 'work' as they should.

In the West, the 'money' is typically with the 40-50-somethings- the sofa-pilots, so 'authentic' fit is compromised, nay, sacrificed for middle-age money and their bellies.

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[Matt Deckard]

See in this pic, the back of the armhole hooks under the armpit... high cut. No chicken wing effect.

High enough to place newspaper in your pit.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I will say that modern jacket construction for alot of off the rack suits demands that the sleeves be longer. With larger armholes your sleeve opening tends to draw back several inches when you reaise your arms. Depending on the jacket the opening can start heading for your elbow. If the sleeve is cut to correct length on many modern suits the sleeves end would look way too short when your arms aren't at rest.

/\
If the armholes are too big your sleeves ride up.

 

[Matt Deckard]

being skinny does help, though the close fit armholes help more.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Modern repro. Armhole too big.

BAD FIT! \/

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Doesn't the fact that that suit has a more built-up shoulder with a shoulder-pad necessarily mean the armhold is going to be larger? I would think that the smallest possible armhole would be on a suit with no padding whatsoever, like a military blouse.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Doesn't the fact that that suit has a more built-up shoulder with a shoulder-pad necessarily mean the armhold is going to be larger? I would think that the smallest possible armhole would be on a suit with no padding whatsoever, like a military blouse.

I just talked to someone about this today over the phone. I took some pics of Root and I on Monday and will show you that you can have a built up shoulder and still have a fitted armhole.

It's about the armhole being close to your armpit. Your jacket shouldn't ride up much at all even with large shoulders. The shoulderpad will be on top of your shoulder and bulge out though between the collar of the jacket and the armpit of the jacket is where the fit lies. If this is too far apart and the hole is cut really low under your pit the whole jacket lifts.

For big shoulder pads and fitted armholes I need some good 40's suit pics with guys raising their arms.

I will try to get those pics up soon.

The decaprio pic shows how the armhole is too far away from his armpit. you can see the fabric slope up then slope down to meet his elbow. A better armhole would be much closer to the pit.

That make sense? /\

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

It would help to see the pics I think, I don't think I am completely grasping what you are getting at exactly. What I am visualizing is more how a shoulderpad will stick out over the shoulder past the natural shoulder. If the pad extends horizontally past the natural shoulder you would have to have a larger armhole to accomidate the pad as you are essentially artificially creating a larger circumference around the top of your arm by using the pad.

If the pad doesn't extend much horizontally (IE exists only to flatten the shoulder line, not extend it) then you wouldn't have quite as much of a need for a larger armhole.

I guess my point is that to me a properly fitted armhole is one that comes up as far as possible under the armpit without feeling tight (this is the lower half of the hole) You can't make it any smaller than that because your arm is in the way. How big the top extends would depend on the size of any padding and the shape of the shoulder and I would think that this measurement is much less important.

Any pad I think would probably reduce freedom of movement because in moving your arm up you have to compress the fabric and the pad somewhat, right? With no padding you only have to compress the fabric which is far easier than having a bulky shoulderpad to move around.

Hopefully with some pics we can make this issue clearer.

 

[Matt Deckard]

You can see movies in the 1940's where the shoulder pad bends when the arm is out straight. On today's suits you won't see the shoulder pad bend, though you will see the shoulders rise toward the wearers neck.

With the larger shoulders a larger hole is needed, though this doesn't change the measurement that goes from collar to armpit... this is the measurent that keeps the jacket in place... this is the measurement that clothiers today care not about. regardless of the actual size of the hole, the pit should be about an inch and a half or less away from the fabric to look and feel the best... though this also depends slightly on the build of the man and his muscle or fat.

If you watch Hollywood Canteen you can see a dance scene near the end where the dancers are wearing aircraft carrier shouldered jackets. good example close to the armpit tailoring allso maneuverability... the shoulderpads bent up whilw the collars on the jacket held their grownd.

 

[Wild Root]

Good points made Mr. Deckard. Last night we took some photos of this and I'm sure Matt will have them up some time tomorrow! I was surprised as well to see the comparison! There really is a HUGE difference with 40's suits VS modern. You'll truly be blown away! It's really almost ridicules how different the arm holes are on both suits!

=WR=

 

[Matt Deckard]

The shoulder padding in these two are pretty much the same... the armhole difference is quite obvious.

Vintage

Modern-- Brooks Brothers

Vintage

Modern-- Brooks Brothers

 

[Wild Root]

Night and day my friend, night and day. Maybe, if you send these photos to J Peterman or another hoity-toity clothing company they may get the joke. Don't know but, it's worth a shot.

=WR=

 

[Vanessa]

Good photos. . .going to snag those & keep for reference.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Fred Astaire: Scottish Fascist. Heil.

Look at photos of Nazi rallies to see some high cut armholes. Imagine the neo nazis in suits today. Their jackets would be over their heads - making them look even more ridiculous than they usually do.

bk

 

[BellyTank]

Fred Astaire: Scottish Fascist. Heil.

Look at photos of Nazi rallies to see some high cut armholes.
bk

...or high-strung a-holes...

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