Better fit

[Matt Deckard]

I know the work your tailor from Canada made for you Rob. It's better than the suit I had made by Jorge in Long Beach... much better in my opinion. Biggest gripe I had was that Jorge made more of what he wanted than what I wanted and he leans toward the zoot suit look.

Your tailor looks like he made a suit that was spot on for the 30's. He couldn't do the skeleton taping over the seams, though it is 3/4 lined and the pattern matches well.

Zohar. If you ever get the chance I whole heartedly recomend the man.

Root still needs to post his pics of that suit. It is a double breasted suit with patch pockets and a belt back.

Rad.

 

[Wild Root]

Yes, it is a rad suit. In fact, I couldn’t find a suit that fit me right wile I was severing the Lord. I just wanted a suit that looked good and fit right. I also was a bit on the rebellious side wanting a belted back. But, I found a tailor that said he could do it. First, I drew exactly what I wanted! I drew as much detail as I could and I took it to the tailor. I explained to him what I wanted. He said that this wasn’t the first request to make a vintage copy.

So, he took my drawings and went to work. After a few weeks he had it done! It is really good! My only complaint is that the fabric is too light weight for me. It is 100% wool, but it’s a summer weight. The only thing he could order.

But, it’s a dark gray with a lighter gray windowpane. I’ll post some photos of me in it soon as I get it cleaned and pressed.

Root.

PS. I will tell you that there isn’t any better tailor that I have found! He is tops! He goes by Tam the Tailor. Any info you may want, I’ll gladly provide.

 

[Matt Deckard]

High cut armholes

 

[gandydancer]

Well, I do believe that most people wearing suits today are only interested in taking them off as soon as possible. The large armholes makes that easy.

I mentioned the book "Elegance" in another thread. One of the things the author said in the chapter about custom suits was that you had to find a tailor who made suits the way you like them, as the tailors were not going to change the way they make suits. Humm..? I guess they have a different definition of "custom" than I do.

 

[Flitcraft]

Re: Better Fit....

Interesting that you chose Fred Astaire to illustrate your point: He was known to throw a new suit against a wall, try it on, and then dance in it, all before he left the tailor's shop. Talk about a demanding customer! But he always looked comfortable and elegant!
Tough to think of a suit maker today who imparts the same simple elegance into their designs.
I'm sure it can be done. Just not sure where to find such a garment.

 

[scotrace]

Also Called

Today you stick your arms out to drive a car and you have wool touching the back of your head.

Yes! I find I am constantly tugging a jacket off my neck when sitting. Also, when the jacket is buttoned, the incorrect armhole construction causes - especially if you have broad shoulders - a small horizontal pinch between the shoulder blades, and the front becomes what an old friend used to call "powter pigeony."

 

[Matt Deckard]

The lower the armhole the higher the jacket rises, and the more uncomfortable it is to move around.

The higher the armhole cut, the easier it is to move around.

Modern.....................................................................................Vintage

I'll get some better pictures with a better background and more examples, though you get the idea. See how the lapels pop on the modern suit.

 

[BellyTank]

Armpit Articulation!

The same is an issue with repro flight jackets but even moreso due to the snug-ish fit and inherent jacket shortness.

Shame modern 'rack' clothes are so comparatively 'sloppy' in the fit dept.

B
T

 

[scotrace]

Before I beg Santa Claus...

Armpit Articulation!

The same is an issue with repro flight jackets but even moreso due to the snug-ish fit and inherent jacket shortness.

Shame modern 'rack' clothes are so comparatively 'sloppy' in the fit dept.

B
T

True of Eastman?

 

[Matt Deckard]

True of Eastman?

Big armholes?

 

[BellyTank]

I would provisionally say yes to that (looser fit bigger armholes)but it all seems a bit of an unknown quantity since they 'upgraded' their patterns for a 'slimmer', more authentic fit' a few years ago(which is kind of an admission that they were not...). People who only know Eastman jackets probably wouldn't know any better, if you get my meaning. I would imagine ELC's larger sizes would be 'less fitted' than the smaller sizes (up to s40). If you're considering an Eastman, get a tryer onner sample from HPA before committing. Aero and the Jap/Real McCoys-NZ jackets have a much slimmer fit/tighter arm-hole. Don't forget 'Flight Suits' for a reasonable, local(US) alternative.

I've seen Eastman's guys fitting people for jackets at the airshows over the last couple of years and they err on the bigger fitting- that's how they seem to sell them. An A-2 over a sweater isn't so good looking...

If you want to wear something heavy under the A-2, you'll need some room to facilitate the extra bulk- but an A-2 is not so much of an 'outer garment'.
As has been mentioned many times, A-2s were(are hopefully) cut as a 'shirt' not a jacket or coat, so should appear more 'snug' to look good.
But some people like 'em looser...

That's it-

B
T

 

[Matt Deckard]

I would like to point out that you don't need a fitted tight jacket to have a high comfortable armhole. Bogart wore jackets that were looser in the body in the 1940's and the armholes and shoulders were large.

--
Eastman has a good sales pitch and a good catalog, though if it is smoke then that is upsetting. I still like my Sefton A-2 http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=1552&highlight=sefton

Though I am thionking of selling it to get a custom made Aero with higher armholes. The exchange rate has put that idea on hold.

 

[BellyTank]

I agree but that was A-2 talk, not generic sartorial.
The armhole issue becomes exaggerated and more important with an A-2, by the nature of the garment. If you were to compare an original A-2 with a good repro, you'd notice the narrower shoulders and chest and higher cut sleeve-head. Look at an Avirex and you'll see extra-wide shoulders and baggy sleeve holes.
The marketing issue is about making a jacket that is said to be 'authentic' in the interests of attracting the guy with the money and then actually selling him one that fits his gut.

I think you did well getting yer hands on a Sefton, he makes a nice jacket.

The Eastman issue is a tough one, some swear by them and some just swear at them-

But they do make a big noise and the US is their big market.
The avid flight jacket detail freak has other ideas though, usually.

My experience with Eastman has been very mixed- I maintain that they make some excellent gear, I just don't like their A-2s so much.

B
T

 

[jake431]

Martin,

I never really got how tighter armholes could be more comfortable until I tried on an Aero A-2 (1940 contract model) and it had tight(er) armholes than others I had owned and/or tried on - it was the most comfortable flight jacket I've ever tried. It felt sort of trim until it was on all the way, then somehow it "clicked" into place and was great - more comfortable even than my M-422a.

It's counterintuitive, but true.

-Jake

 

[BellyTank]

Yep- like I mentioned when I had my '38 Aero-
it feels snug half zipped but when you get it all the way on and fully zipped, everything hits the right places- the shoulders and armpits- and it becomes almost like a second skin and doesn't drag you around.

Strange but true- and of course dependent on physique and if you're made the same way as the jacket...

My original Edmund T. Church M-422a has not-too-small arm holes- it's a s42 and actually larger on me than I would have guessed- seems the USN jackets were a little fickle in fit.

B
T

 

[shamus]

I've had a few Aero A2's through the years... currently an anniversary in jerky horse which I love. I find that zipped all the way up is fine if I don't have collar snapped but if it is it rubs my neck wrong...

I also have an Aero B-10 which has the high arm holes and it really fits like a second skin. It's the cotton poplin but alpaca lined and it's as warm (zipped up with a hat) as my D-1 jacket. That one is insanely warm. Most winters (when I actually lived where they had winters) I kept it unzipped unless it was in the single digits and below. I did wish it had side straps to keep out the gusts though...

 

[Matt Deckard]

 

[Sin Khan]

Great observation on armholes

Good observation on armholes. Amazing that we basically have to backtrack in time in order to learn how to do things right. Then it seems that you have to re-educate a tailor in order to truly get what you should have, and what you want.

To me it seems that tailoring is a lost art form. Apparently tailors today are not tailors as the name implies, but are only piece fitters, who in designing a suite put together ready designed pieces of materials in the small, medium, large format. They apparently do not truly understand the measurements they are taking and how they relate to the suit that is made.

Sad, very sad.

Good thing this forum is here. This forum brings together many things, much like a research thread, improving the general results of all, thereby altering the ladescape to change toward the positive.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Just thought I would resurrect this thread and ask some of you oher guys to show the fit of your suits... vintage versus modern.

I'm taking some new pictures that should clarify some things that may not have been covered. One thing I haven't quite shown is how many modern jacket armholes (armscyes) not only are cut too big, though they are cut at an angle that is not anatomical. Flat down across the back of the shoulder is how many current armholes are cut, and when you reach forward you get a chicken wing effect. The vintage suits (some you could do hand stands in if you wished) hook down and under your armpit helping hold the shoulders down... not too tight, though not so loose as to allow the jacke to ride around.

If some of you ladies who make clothes at home are reading, if you have some semi finished garments that you can use to show armscyses pictures (on a model with no sleeve) they would be much appreciated.

 

[Canadave]

What are we looking at in illustration 4?

David