CRH
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,272
- Location
- West Branch, IA
I am a better keeper these days.
I have not killed a hat recently.
but I've done my share
I have not killed a hat recently.
but I've done my share
Tone said:So with the majority of custom U.S. hatters using the same felt supplier (Winchester) do any of you know of Factory made hats using Winchester's felt also?
Why aren't they?
rlk said:We greatly overestimate and even mythologize vintage quality, making large generalizations. One can certainly say the quality of the "average" hat has decreased. How can one possibly define "best" felt given the range of possible fur sources--rabbit(wild or not), hare ,muskrat,nutria, beaver,mink, etc......) thickness,stiffness,weight,length of fur and degree of smoothness the hatter aims for. Some may be better for particular uses, some preferred for style purposes and some desired for entirely subjective reasons. As to chemicals, Mercury was banned in the USA for hats in 1941, and most of us would consider many hats made after that date to be fine quality products. Many of the vintage hats beloved here were merely decent quality mass-produced products of their time, more remarkable for their style than a hypothetical felt "quality". There are only a limited number of sources currently for felts so I would imagine that some of the same raw materials go into hats of a wide range of price and perceived quality. Any piece of felt can be pounced and some are not intended to be. Some mass-production is of a very high standard and some "custom" hatters can be merely more expensive. The felt issue is really fuzzy. As a specific example, I have 7 Borsalino hats,1930's-1990's, and I can honestly state that no two have the same felt(requiring no particular expertise to detect). How can one decide which is best? Obviously some things are near-cardboard junk(even vintage examples exist). Construction quality issues are a bit more obvious. There is always a range of quality at any time not inextricably linked to price alone.
barrowjh said:Winchester's primary line of business is police / military, relatively thick (tough) felt (similar to a working cowboy's hat), meeting specs for color fastness, etc. The dress weight and lite felt production volume for custom hatters might be significant to total volume, but no single custom hatter would be significant to their volume. Greg Fiske explained to us that they had worked with the fur processors in Portugal, tweaking the amount of chemical used in carroting (the stage where mercury was once used), to the point where the fur just would not bond (would not felt), and then added back to reach an optimum fur in terms of soft feel.
The Winchester lite felt, per the custom that I obtained from Art Fawcett, comes the closest to matching the softness and plush feel of my top-shelf Borsalino and Stetson hats. In fact, the only vintage felts that really out-perform the Winchester lite in those respects are felts that had been through the wringer over the years; apparently cleaned and blocked several times before I got them, and both had to be sent off for refurbishment (one to Graham at Optimo, and one to Mike Moore at Buckaroo).
I have one top-shelf Borsalino that appears to have never been through any clean/blocking, and was in exceptional shape when I got it, and it's felt is equally as stiff as the Winchester Lite felt. The Cobalta:
Damon Falzone said:On a recent visit to Worth & Worth in NYC I had a chance to try on some Guerras, made in Italy. I particularly liked one in a chestnut color, a not so common color, but very rich looking. The hat was finished very well and was priced at least $125. less than an equivalent new Borsalino and was a much nicer hat. Guerra hats are definitely worthy of a hat-lover's consideration.
Aureliano said:I Agree. I own two beautiful Guerra 1855 I purchased from Worth & Worth. A The felt quality is superb, a million times better than modern Borsalinos.
Lefty said:When I talked to Gary White, he said that the best felt being made today is from Poland. He had a large board of color swatches of the brand (I wish I could remember it) with at least 80 different colors. Gary expressed a fondness for Habig, but I don't know if that was it.
Marc Chevalier said:In the Golden Era, Belgian felt was the best in the world. Does Belgium still produce felt for hats? If so, is the quality still high?
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Dreispitz said:The factory in Slovenia is called Sesir. I was told by the curator of the local museum that they do and did a lot export business. They also did make hats for Borsalino.
Lefty said:When I talked to Gary White, he said that the best felt being made today is from Poland. He had a large board of color swatches of the brand (I wish I could remember it) with at least 80 different colors. Gary expressed a fondness for Habig, but I don't know if that was it.
no website,info:Dreispitz said:The factory in Slovenia is called Sesir. I was told by the curator of the local museum that they do and did a lot export business. They also did make hats for Borsalino.