Belstaff or Aero?

[wdw]

I'd phone to check if Will's going to be there, as he's part of the experience just because of the passion he has for his work.

 

[Sloan1874]

I'll put a call in on Friday - a week ahead should be enough, and it's easy enough to shift the day on if I need to. Have to say, I'm quite excited about it!

 

[Edward]

Sounds a bit like getting a bespoke suit: the less bells and whistles, the better. Very keen to actually see one of these things in the flesh, so to speak, given the variety of opinions on the stiffness of the leather, time to break in etc - given that I live in Scotland, dreich weather is never far away, so that may speed up the process. One of the things I've read is that the cordorvan colouring can 'bleed' quite heavily at first. Does anyone have experience of that?

My first leather civilian Aero, which I still own, was this Bootlegger, bought new in Spring 2010:

Standard pattern Size 42 with the following mods:

- tartan lining, wool
- button cuffs, leather lined, no storm cuffs.
- throat latch
- two inner pockets, G1 style.

I have had a little bleed onto the collars of light or white shirts, but only when the jacket was worn all day, and moreso when I was hot rather than in rain. Nothing that didn't come out with a cycle in the washing machine. Had it once with a FQHH in brown. Never in any non-FQHH hides from Aero, though I did get it years ago, only once, from a black cowhide jacket that was similar in style to a Highwayman (not an Aero, though). I believe it's down to the tanning process as much as anything, though the Cordovan does seem to be more prone to it by all accounts than any other colour.

"Cold, rainy, and windy" covers the Scottish summer this year, so I can only apologise for my country's weather - the Jet Stream failed to push north, left us with a lot of Arctic stuff. Sounds as if you've got a definite system for getting a jacket softened up - though how cold can Pasadena get? Kelso cold? :-D

This year?? Never apologise.... I'm delighted by how wet the Summer has been down here.... London is usually unbearably hot for the entirety of July and August, and much of June and September too.

 

[Jeff M]

Would spraying a brand new aero down with a (quality) leather weatherproofing spray help keep it from bleeding off the excess dye? I'm guessing the longer the dye sits on there the better.

I have one on the way is why I ask.

Agree with Scott.
Don't put anything on it!!
If you are going to put anything on it. use what museums use to treat their leather items.....Picard's.
I'd wear the jacket hard for 10 or 15 years, if it was looking a bit dry in places treat it with a thin coat of Picard's wiped off...then wear it hard for another 10 or 15 years before considering another treatment.

From the Aero web site section "breaking in your jacket";

"Treating The Leather

This is even easier. Do nothing, absolutely nothing. Do not oil it, don't treat it with hide food - even ours, this is for old steerhide jackets and dried up old vintage horsehide jackets from the 1930s and 1940s, not for your Aero, well not until maybe 2035."

http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/break-in.php

 

[Graemsay]

That is one serious and fine-looking coat. What are the specs?

If you're referring to the car coat, I don't know.

I saw the coat on the Ironheart stand at the Goodwood Festival earlier in the summer. Apparently it was made for a client, who then didn't turn up to collect it.

Will sent a number of samples down to Goodwood, with the hope of selling them, and this was amongst them. Giles at Ironheart UK, who was manning the stand, found that it fit him perfectly, and acquired it for himself.

I suspect that if you emailed Aero and told them which coat it was they'd fill you in with the details.

 

[wdw]

Graemsay, thanks for the info. Nice story.

Edward, the colour on that Bootlegger is fabulous. Is that a real photo of you wearing it or some advert shot? I hope my cordovan HWM and Stockman look half as good.

 

[ButteMT61]

That is one serious and fine-looking coat. What are the specs?

Extremely warm! lolThat's one awesome jacket. Wow.

 

[ButteMT61]

Awesome. I think the first pic of me in my new HBD was graveside in Kelso, Scotland! Then, a bunch in France - Père Lachaise Cemetery in Paris. More in Normandy. I guess I'm kinda creepy lol

 

[Sloan1874]

Loving the photo, jacket looks great - can't help but notice you stress that it was your 'first', I hope to god these things aren't habit forming! Interested in some of your choices, so a few questions: 1. why buttons over storm cuffs, practicality or purely aesthetic? 2. this may be a silly question, but what does the G1 refer to 3. what pattern of tartan did you go for with the cardorvan?
As far as the weather goes, this year has been unremittingly wet, even by Scottish standards, but with the added pleasure of clammy temperatures. London can be too hot, but at least it's dry. Also, when you're faced with day after day of grey skies, well, you end investing in high end leather jackets that the bank manager would disapprove of!

 

[Edward]

Edward, the colour on that Bootlegger is fabulous. Is that a real photo of you wearing it or some advert shot? I hope my cordovan HWM and Stockman look half as good.

Nope, that's actually me. Photo taken during a shoot with Hanson Leatherby - http://hansonleatherby.com/ - fantastic photographer.

Awesome. I think the first pic of me in my new HBD was graveside in Kelso, Scotland! Then, a bunch in France - Père Lachaise Cemetery in Paris. More in Normandy. I guess I'm kinda creepy lol

That shot was taken in Bunhill Fields, the non-conformists' graveyard. Residents include Daniel Defoe, John Bunyan, Susannah Wesley and Isaac Watts... and, of course, William Blake. I'd love to do a shoot in Highgate Cemetary, too - best known for Karly Marx. Pere Lachaise I would love to see, primarily for Uncle Oscar, but I'd certainly stop by with Jim.

Loving the photo, jacket looks great - can't help but notice you stress that it was your 'first', I hope to god these things aren't habit forming!

Yeah, about that..... they are. Plus this place is full of enablers...

Interested in some of your choices, so a few questions:

Fire away!

1. why buttons over storm cuffs, practicality or purely aesthetic?

Purely aesthetic. The Bootlegger, although I suspect it to be a 50s Halfbelt with a different front, is at least nominally based on the multi-purpose flying / motorcycle / bicycle jackets of the inter-war period. I think the button cuffs give it a bit more of that aesthetic. (Incidentally, a former forum member in these parts, Rufus, has a custom version which is essentially a Thirties Halfbelt with a Bootlegger front - gorgeous jacket).

2. this may be a silly question, but what does the G1 refer to

The G1 was one designation given to the US Navy flying jacket (think: the jacket from Top Gun - generally similar to an A2, with the most obvious exterior difference being the mouton collar). Unlike the USAAF equivalent, the G1 ( and M442 / M442a / AN6552 which preceded it) has an internal pocket. Instead of being a traditional pocket on the inside lining of the jacket, it is in the leather facing of the interior, with a verticle opening. Here is an example in another forumite's jacket (both sides, like my Bootlegger):

Less likely to stretch out the lining than a regular inside pocket.

3. what pattern of tartan did you go for with the cardorvan?

Blair Modern.

Less for aesthetic reasons, more for the novelty of family connection (course, my Blair ancestors were driven out of Scotland during the Highland Clearances, long before the reintroduction of the kilt, pipes, etc and the Anglo-Scottish invention of "tartan" as we know it in the late nineteenth century...).

As far as the weather goes, this year has been unremittingly wet, even by Scottish standards, but with the added pleasure of clammy temperatures. London can be too hot, but at least it's dry. Also, when you're faced with day after day of grey skies, well, you end investing in high end leather jackets that the bank manager would disapprove of!

Honestly, I much prefer the rain over the sun, every time.

 

[Sloan1874]

Excellent answers! Really useful to know about the pockets - had never occurred to me about the stretching thing - and I rather like the button cuffs. A nice understated tartan, my 'family' cloth is really lifeless - years of family picnics has given me an aversion to it - so I think I'm going to go on purely aesthetic grounds. Having read around a bit more about what is possible, I'm hoping that they can keep the whole thing reasonably fitted, as I'm keen to avoid a blouson-y look. I tried on a Belstaff Cougar a week or two ago and even the small was a bit bell-like!

 

[ButteMT61]

Coupla things. I got snaps on the sleeves to manage them in the cold with gloves on. Glad I did. But buttons look nicer. The tartan I got I love. It matches the look perfectly. However, if I get a cafe racer. I'm going to get a crazy tartan, or the black & white checkers. Something crazy. What the h3ll, it's on the inside, and nobody ever sees it lol

 

[Sloan1874]

I noticed your press studs, that's a really nice detail, kinda art deco. And I agree with you on eye-slashing tartan. At the moment I'm torn between these two:

http://www.lochcarron.com/reiver/bruce_of_kinnaird_ancient.html and http://www.lochcarron.com/reiver/macrae_of_conchra_ancient.html

They'll both sit well with cordorvan but make, er, a statement. Like you say, it's on the inside, so who sees it?

 

[ButteMT61]

I noticed your press studs, that's a really nice detail, kinda art deco. And I agree with you on eye-slashing tartan. At the moment I'm torn between these two:http://www.lochcarron.com/reiver/bruce_of_kinnaird_ancient.html and http://www.lochcarron.com/reiver/macrae_of_conchra_ancient.htmlThey'll both sit well with cordorvan but make, er, a statement. Like you say, it's on the inside, so who sees it?

Bruce of Kinnaird tartan! The other isn't wacky enough for me lol

 

[Sloan1874]

I leaning towards that one as well!

 

[Alabama]

Bruce of Kinnaird tartan! I thihk that one is really nice.

 

[Graemsay]

I might even have been tempted to get concealed snaps on the cuffs. Pretty Green use that on the tabs of their suede parka (picture), and it looks very clean.

DC Dalgliesh are also based in Galashiels, and can weave all sorts of obscure tartans, though there's a minimum order for custom work. If you trawl Scotweb then you might find something.

I quite like the Sutherland Artefact pattern, but there's a rather expensive minimum order required.

 

[Sloan1874]

That's a really nice pattern. I may have another trawl through the lochcarron website, see if it's tucked away somewhere.

 

[Graemsay]

It won't be available through Lochcarron because it's an obscure, very old school tartan. You'd probably be looking at a custom run, and that really isn't a cheap exercise. (It's £115 / metre at Scotweb, and you'd need four metres.)

If you do decide to go for that particular fabric, then I would be tempted to join you in an order.

I'm pretty certain that Aero could use DC Dalgliesh. They're practically next door to Lochcarron, and Will drives up there to pick up lengths of fabric.

 

[Sloan1874]

That's an interesting offer, Graemsay. I've arranged to visit the factory next Friday to get measured and place an order, so I'll have a look at the fabrics when I'm there and if I decide that the Sutherland trumps any of the ones they have, I'll come back to.
Actually spoke to Will today, what a top bloke! We chatted about what I had in mind - apparently he has a Japanese specification he uses for skinny guys, which sounds just the ticket.
Interestingly, or not depending how you like your star gossip, he was saying when Daniel Craig sends his Highwayman to be repaired or adjusted, he always insists on getting it back within 24 hours, that's the extent to which he's attached to his jacket (he has several others), while P Diddy phoned him not that long ago and ordered a shearling neck barnstormer. Will pointed out that it might not be suitable for the Californian climate, but P just said 'It's all about the look' and wanted it made.