before automatic transmissions

[Wild Root]

Nice responses everybody. I got some great information.
But where's Wild Root?[huh]

Sincerely,
The Wolf

I'm right here! Sorry it took me some time to get to this thread.

Ok, to lay it all out for reference sake.

In the early days, the shifter was on the floor... some even came out high on the transmission... at the foot of the firewall! Came out straight and curved up... one would see this mostly on mid to late 30's autos.

The three on the tree (Standard three speed on column shift) came around 1939. It's a very simple H pattern, it's really much easier to use, I like it a lot and I find it possible to drive with one hand if I need to.

The automatic transmission came out as early as 1941 as I recall. It was started with the Oldsmobile which introduced the HYDRA-MATIC transmission. It practically was a fully automatic transmission. Chrysler then came out in the same year with the FLUID-DRIVE transmission. It was very similar to the HYDRA-MATIC.

The FLUID-DRIVE and HYDRA-MATIC's went on into the post war era picking back up again in 1946 to 1948. By 1949 I believe the Automatic Transmission was really taking off. By the early 1950's, most cars offered Standard or Automatic Transmissions.

I hope that helped you Wolf ol' boy!

=WR=

 

[jamespowers]

You could get a Super Fly '78 Monte Carlo with a stovebolt Six and three-on-the-tree. I don't know if anybody actually did, but it was in the brochure! lol

Oh joy what a hot car.

Regards,

J

 

[Wild Root]

Four on the floor is the only way to go.

Regards,

J

Get off of the floor grandpa... it's all about shifting on the tree man! One you try it, you'll never go back!

=WR=

 

[jamespowers]

Get off of the floor grandpa... it's all about shifting on the tree man! One you try it, you'll never go back!

=WR=

Yeah sure. That's what they said about the push button transmissions. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

 

[Wild Root]

Hahahahaha... those push button transmissions... man, what a hard thing to fix! A buddy of mine has a 1958 Imperial and it has that push button tranz!

Seriously, three speed (Which is funny they call them speed's they're really not that fast) on the tree is very easy to use... heck, if I use it, any one can! lol

=WR=

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

I've been reading up on the Plymouth column shift of that time, and I have a question. It seems like they were set up in such a way that when you put it in Low and let go of the lever, it slid forward on its own so that you only had to lift it straight up for Second, and then straight down for High. Is that how it works?

If so, it reminds me of the "verical gate" racing 4-speed shifters of the 1970s, which ratcheted so you only had to push the lever back and forth (no side to side) to shift through all four gears.

 

[Wild Root]

Yep, Plymouth and other Chrysler autos had this. To shift into first, you pulled back toward your self and down for first, then, for second you just push up and it falls right into second. Third worked the same, you just pushed it down and there it would fall into third. Reverse wasn't hard, you had to be at a dead stand still for it to allow you to put the car in reverse. You simply pull back on the leaver and push up! There, you have the car in reverse! That's all there is too it... simple H pattern!

=WR=

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

When this blasted heat wave finally goes away, I ought to drop by on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon and take a closer look at that fine machine.

 

[Section10]

If I remember right, the first automatic in a car was in 1908. I've got a book around here someplace that discusses it. It must have been a dud because I don't believe it lasted very long.

I had a '38 Ford truck and a Fordson tractor and a MM tractor that I started with a crank all the time. The dangerous thing about it was in the old vehicles that had a manual spark advance, if the spark was set ahead too much that meant it would fire before the piston reached TDC and it would reverse the engine which meant a broken thumb or else it would swing back out of your hand and slap your wrist.

 

[The Reno Kid]

My '39 has 3 on the floor. Ford went to the column shift the following year.

 

[Lincsong]

A '78 Monte Carlo with a stovebolt six and 3 on the tree? Talk about not being able to get out of its own way.lol I remember my friends Dad bought him a 73 Pontiac LeMans with an in-line six with an automatic. What a GOAT! Trucks and vans usually had the 3 on the tree until the early 80's, that way there was more leg room for the center passenger.

 

[Terry Lennox]

and don't forget the Honda-matic. Which was a 2 speed on the floor but no clutch.

You start in first then shift to 2nd about 20 mph. Then you don't shift again.

 

[scotrace]

My VW Bug was similar. Stick shift with no clutch. It mostly drove to the repair shop.

I drove a 1942 Olds B44 660 this week - with Hydramatic. Woot!

 

[Wild Root]

Love them B44's!

Scott, I love the '42 Olds! They're really sharp looking cars I think. I was at a friend's house once waiting in my car for him to come out of his house... as I sat there and waited, a guy pulls up in a pickup truck and talks to me about my car. He said that he has a '42 Olds and asked if I'd like to see it. So, he tells me he lives just around the block and it's parked outside.

So, we go over there and sure enough, there it is a two door '42 Olds fast back! Dark blue looking sharp!

I'll post some photos of it later, here's an ad of the same car, just in dark green.

=WR=

 

[scotrace]

I should have some pictures of my Big Day Thrill soon.
Root, as far as I'm concerned you have life well in hand being able to drive that Plymouth everywhere. Sweet!

 

[Wild Root]

Thanks Scott, I feel pretty good about that old Plymouth, she's a real dear to me as long as I keep her happy!

=WR=

 

[Jack Armstrong]

The GM Hydra-Matic, a four speed planetary transmission with a fluid coupling was first used on a trial basis in 1939, I think. The Chrysler Fluid Drive, which was nothing more than a conventional 3-speed manual with a clutch plus a fluid coupling first came out at just about the same time. Dodges got them in 1941, and I'm not sure when or if Plymouths got them.

I find the Fluid Drive very interesting, as it addresses one specific problem with a manual transmission, and that is moving off from a stop. You still had to use the clutch to put the car in gear and to shift gears, but once you put it in gear you just let the clutch out and the fluid coupling would handle the takeoff. I've never driven one but I'd bet it's a boon when you're stopped on a hill.

In 1968, VWs and Porsches were available with pretty much the same setup, the only difference was that the clutch was operated electrically and controlled by a microswitch on the gear shift rather than a clutch pedal. VW called it the "Automatic Stickshift" and Porsche called it the "Sportomatic."

Well, not quite. The VW "automatic stick shift" used a full torque converter, not just a fluid coupling. The clutch was electrically-activated, by a microswitch in the shift column. So every time you touched the shift lever, the clutch disengaged -- as many drivers discovered to their unpleasant surprise.

Because of the torque convertor, VW figured no low gear was necessary, and only three forward gears were used (second, third and fourth). The gears were referred to as L, 1 and 2, and VW TV ads of the day recommended using 1 around town and 2 for highway use.


Similar but even clumsier was the 1953 Plymouth Hi-Drive. This was a standard 3-speed manual transmission plus torque convertor (not a fluid coupling). You still had a clutch pedal (in red rubber, to remind you how "special" it all was, but you could leave the car in second around town, and, like the Fluid Drive, you didn't have to do a quick gavotte with your feet when starting on a hill.

My neighbor had a 1954 Plymouth with Hy-Drive (how I wish I had it now!) that she let me drive a couple of times. The Hy-Drive worked as advertised, but it was all really just a PR gimmick to keep buyers pacified until Chrysler could start putting the PowerFlite transmission (a genuine automatic) in Plymouths.

One particular drawback of the Hy-Drive was that the torque convertor shared the same oil supply as the engine. My neighbor used to complain bitterly at having to buy twelve quarts of oil at oil-change time.