Balmoral Boots

[Isshinryu101]

My cobbler told me that the quality of leather has declined in such a way that she can only buy one of fifty hides to make bespoke shoes from. And of this one hide only a small portion can be used. She said it is very difficult for an independent tailor to source good leather, as most of the leather that still maintains a high quality is sold in bulk to Gucci and similar companies. The sellers are not interested in dealing with individuals who buy only small quantities. But most leather today is quite inferior to vintage leather.

not exactly true. Gucci and the big fashion houses do not make their own shoes. They either outsource to other traditional makers OR outsource to China, India, etc. The target market of Gucci, Prada, D&G and similar labels buy the LABEL, rather than any concept of "quality".

About the heel shape, I weighed in with 2 well-respected shoemakers, and both said there is no additional inherent difficulty in making the heel curve. No additional 3-piece lasts needed, no xtra undiscovered skill.

It is a matter of current popular styling. Somehow, in the 1950's or 60's, most boots lost that curve. Now we are so far removed from the heyday of the style that it is challenging to even find a modern shoe company that even actively knows/ considers it as an option. 50+ years will do that... a style semi-lost in time. When shoemakers are trained now, it is usually with no heel curve.

One big factor in its decline was the shift from "perfect fit" in shoes to "one-size-fits-all". The days of 5 narrow and 3 wide options for every half size are gone. Efficiency has dictated that most makers are hard-pressed to find you a single narrow and single wide fitting. Even top makers (like St Crispins, JLobb, EG, G&G and the like) are guilty of this. By making a "fitting" ankle shape, there arises the possibility that some men will no longer find the fit to their liking. To simplify it, the western world is riddled with extremely overweight people. Where most of the population once had narrow feet, most now suffer from fallen arches and flattening/ widening feet. Even ankles are fat now.

 

[Rudie]

I don't think she meant Gucci were making shoes. She was talking about the leather in general. Maybe they use it for bags, I don't know. She also mentioned that most of the leather goes to China.

Awhile ago I read about a study that says to make sure that the majority of people has shoes that fit manufacturers would have to offer each model in at least 18 different sizes: narrow or wide heels, narrow or wide forefoot, high or low arches, etc.

 

[Chasseur]

Love those button boots, I'm going to have to look into those two brands....

 

[Tomasso]

most of the leather that still maintains a high quality is sold in bulk to Gucci and similar companies.

Actually, luxury holding companies like Hermès, LVMH and PPR have been buying up all the top tanneries in recent years in an effort of vertical integration. For instance, Hermès Cuirs Précieux, the tannery division of Hermès International, has taken control of nearly a dozen top tanneries to supply their various workrooms (John Lobb included). Just a few months ago they added the esteemed Tannerie d'Annonay to their stable. They cherry-pick the very best skins and sell the rest on the open market.

 

[Rudie]

That's probably exactly what she meant, isn't it?

 

[Isshinryu101]

Actually, luxury holding companies like Hermès, LVMH and PPR have been buying up all the top tanneries in recent years in an effort of vertical integration. For instance, Hermès Cuirs Précieux, the tannery division of Hermès International, has taken control of nearly a dozen top tanneries to supply their various workrooms (John Lobb included). Just a few months ago they added the esteemed Tannerie d'Annonay to their stable. They cherry-pick the very best skins and sell the rest on the open market.

interesting stuff. Big business strikes again!

 

[LoveMyHats2]

I would think it makes common sense that the supply of really good stuff leather wise, would be like similar consumer goods in how orders would be as far as a source for those using it. It is probably similar to hat bodies of felt, more of the really fine "stuff" would go to someone that could place a larger order and take priority over any "small fry" orders that would surface.

In some of my own "quest" for finding exotic skins to use for making shoes in the future, I've already been told by the individuals that offer the courses to start hunting for what I would want now as it can be a real pain to find exactly what I am seeking, (some good white sting ray) although it is out there, the sources that have it have orders to meet that may not include some small fry like me.

My own preference when it comes to a shoe or boot, I can see why people like the rear curve look in a boot, but for me personally it would not be a deal breaker or maker regarding the ownership of any one pair of boots over another. I myself have always looked at a quality made shoe for how it looks overall. Even some of the less expensive shoes or boots I have purchased. I think I tend to form a "need and desire" by what I would like to wear with the shoe or boot, if it has a look to it, well made, right colors, etc., and then fit. I dislike wearing a shoe only for it's look if it is too tight, too long, too narrow, too wide, those things come into play as much as the "style" itself.

The rear curve is nice, no question about that...but I can purchase real old vintage button up boots today that are worn, tore up looking and are really not wearable. Junk. I could have a "quest" looking for some newer yet vintage boots that have the curve, and may have to look for years before finding that. So unless I am making my own shoes or boots and want to have that rear curve look, I think my options would be to find someone that makes them, and be willing to part with some serious "moolah" or...to not let the rear curve be the deal breaker. I do have one simple solution for the rear of a pair of boots to have a curve put in them! If you "cut" out the material of leather, maybe taking a quarter of an inch out dead center of the back about one inch up from the actual heel, pulling the leather together and sewing it up at such an angle to "mimic" the real deal curve. I think someone with skill in sewing leather by hand, could do this.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

not exactly true. Gucci and the big fashion houses do not make their own shoes. They either outsource to other traditional makers OR outsource to China, India, etc. The target market of Gucci, Prada, D&G and similar labels buy the LABEL, rather than any concept of "quality".

About the heel shape, I weighed in with 2 well-respected shoemakers, and both said there is no additional inherent difficulty in making the heel curve. No additional 3-piece lasts needed, no xtra undiscovered skill.

It is a matter of current popular styling. Somehow, in the 1950's or 60's, most boots lost that curve. Now we are so far removed from the heyday of the style that it is challenging to even find a modern shoe company that even actively knows/ considers it as an option. 50+ years will do that... a style semi-lost in time. When shoemakers are trained now, it is usually with no heel curve.

One big factor in its decline was the shift from "perfect fit" in shoes to "one-size-fits-all". The days of 5 narrow and 3 wide options for every half size are gone. Efficiency has dictated that most makers are hard-pressed to find you a single narrow and single wide fitting. Even top makers (like St Crispins, JLobb, EG, G&G and the like) are guilty of this. By making a "fitting" ankle shape, there arises the possibility that some men will no longer find the fit to their liking. To simplify it, the western world is riddled with extremely overweight people. Where most of the population once had narrow feet, most now suffer from fallen arches and flattening/ widening feet. Even ankles are fat now.

I myself have noticed how much larger my ankles are getting with age....geez...I have some conversations with my family and close friends about such a topic, and have made a goal that my wallet needs to grow as fat as the rest of me, to keep a balance in my life....so far...my ankles are winning that one.....lol!

 

[Tomasso]

That's probably exactly what she meant, isn't it?

Well, the end result is that she's got slim pickings but she probably was unaware that the lux makers had in effect taken over the top of the market. The little guy gets shut out of the prime stuff unless they have an established relationship with one of the big boys like Beatrice does with Hermes, for example.

 

[Rudie]

Well, the end result is that she's got slim pickings but she probably was unaware that the lux makers had in effect taken over the top of the market.

The way I understood her this was what she wanted to convey.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

What about that curve?

from "Adjustable Costume".

 

[herringbonekid]

good find Floey. the curve on the light grey ones you linked to is probably the best so far.

on these below, it seems a bit lacking. i like the tab and logo better than the overall shape.

 

[herringbonekid]

One big factor in its decline was the shift from "perfect fit" in shoes to "one-size-fits-all". The days of 5 narrow and 3 wide options for every half size are gone...

this almost exactly mirrors what happened in suits. however there has been a swing back to more fitted suits (which has gone to the other extreme of skininess) and tailoring in the last ten years, particularly in Europe, so the time is right for the slim ankled balmoral / derby boot to make a comeback. i'm convinced it will happen soon.

 

[Isshinryu101]

this almost exactly mirrors what happened in suits. however there has been a swing back to more fitted suits (which has gone to the other extreme of skininess) and tailoring in the last ten years, particularly in Europe, so the time is right for the slim ankled balmoral / derby boot to make a comeback. i'm convinced it will happen soon.

the difference with suits is that they are easily tailorable (in most cases) by a trained professional. Although it has been 10 years since my last suit purchase, I still remember being amazed with how well it fit after alterations compared to the looser fitting non-tailored version I plucked my money down for. The tailoring accounted for around 6% of total cost of the suit, but made ALL the difference. No such options for shoes, sadly.

 

[herringbonekid]

let's remind ourselves what the real thing looks like. hopefully some modern shoemakers are reading this thread:

 

[cookie]

let's remind ourselves what the real thing looks like. hopefully some modern shoemakers are reading this thread:

Yeah the Real McCoy!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Some french balmoral boots from the fall/winter 1933/34 catalog "Au bon marche"

 

[Two Types]

These are from the 1920-1921 Eatons mail order catalogue. It was referred to earlier in this thread but i didn't post pictures. This shows the variety of Balmoral boots that were available in the early 1920s - some very pointed, others round toed.

 

[Two Types]

These are from the 1920-1921 Eatons mail order catalogue. It was referred to earlier in this thread but i didn't post pictures. This shows the variety of Balmoral boots that were available in the early 1920s - some very pointed, others round toed.

 

[herringbonekid]

these went on ebay today:

size ? forget it.