Aviation Leathercraft Irvin v New Aero leather models

[Lord Flashheart]

Hello all,

I'm returning to the motherland (Edinburgh, Scotland) on the 16th of this month and toying with a visit to Galashiels so I'm hoping some of you gents might be able to offer a bit of advice.

Previously I have owned an Aviation Leathercraft Irvin. While it was a solid jacket it was incredibly awkward jacket to wear, not just for its thermal properties but more for the bulk of it. The fleece seemed incredibly dense and the arms almost unbearable. I'm 6'3 and 98kg so I felt like the Michelin man everytime I wore it. I sold it to a chap in China a few months back and bought a Gibson and Barnes G1 which I'm very happy with.

However!

I still have the desire to own an Irvin of some flavour. Many will think I'm mad. I live in The Grampian Highlands of country Victoria, Australia. The weather here is hot in the summer but pretty cold in the winter months. Typically in winter we are around freezing point in the mornings and anywhere between 8-14 during the day. I also spend a bit of time out under the stars doing a bit of photography and there is a certain MGB waiting to be purchased in the future.

I've had a good look at Griff delaGriff's new Aero Irvin and it looks the business and I'm wondering how the jackets may compare. Is the Aero a thinner/ less dense fleece and how about the flexibility of the arms. One of my main issues with the ALC was the density of the sheepskin, as some have described it, it felt very teddybear-ish, is the aero similar? What about the thermal qualities?

I know some of my questions have been answered on other threads, I guess I may be trying to justify the cash outlay on a dream jacket.

Regards

Garry

 

[Rudie]

At these temperatures a leather jacket with just a wool or cotton liner will probably serve you much better. Or get a D-1 or B-6 and wear it with a t-shirt. An Irvin should be nearly unbearable at night and totally out of the question during the day, unless your fridge is large enough for you to get into it.

 

[Deacon211]

I think most people are going to say that the authenticity of Aero pretty much seals it as the preferred Irvin.

However, I purchased an ALC for my wife last spring. As a ladies jacket, it was made with the thinner fleece as a default which I understand is also available in the men's. As you can see, the fleece is very dense and soft. My ELC is also quite heavy (perhaps heavier than the ALC) so I can't say that the ALC is any different in that respect. I think the finish on the ALC is nice, but not nearly as nice as my ELC which just seems to have better zippers, thicker seam tapes, etc.

Don't know if any of this helps any, but here are some pics of the ALC that may give you some food for thought.

 

[Deacon211]

Oh, personally I don't feel you would have no use whatsoever for an Irvin in the 0-15C range. I only got to wear my Eastman last spring a few times as the temps climbed into the, say 5-10C range. I wouldn't think of hiking strenuously in it but, sitting in the hammock, lounging about, and most certainly driving around with the top down would be a fine and comfortable way to spend an afternoon IMHO.

 

[pak]

The sheepskin/fleece flying jackets are incredable. However they are very impractile in almost all applications. Any physical activity and they are too hot, bulky and heavy. A casual stroll around or sedentary activity they would be fine. As I said these are wonderful jackets. I like the ANJ-4s the best but I would never own one do to their limitations.

 

[Big J]

The sheepskin/fleece flying jackets are incredable. However they are very impractile in almost all applications. Any physical activity and they are too hot, bulky and heavy. A casual stroll around or sedentary activity they would be fine. As I said these are wonderful jackets. I like the ANJ-4s the best but I would never own one do to their limitations.

I agree with you and Deacon. I usually wear my B-3 for sitting outside and smoking cigars in winter.

 

[Edward]

Both will be warm, practical jackets for the Winter (or any other time of year that individual body chemistry makes them practical). My preference by far would be the new Aero, as I prefer the accuracy, but that's again to personal taste. If you're going to visit the factory anyhow, try one on and see what you think.

 

[Sloan1874]

The new Aero Irvin is lighter with a less dense fleece than older design, so more flexible in terms of wear - I wore it last winter from late October through to March and it wasn't that cold a winter. The old design also had the thick, ironed 'teddy bear' shearling that made bending the arms very difficult.

 

[rocketeer]

Sheepskin jackets are quite wearable in cold weather even if the temp does not go to -10º. I Have a couple of Eastman jacket and wear them with just T shirts. Similar to your description the Aviation Leathercraft Jacket is just like a skinned teddy bear. I would like to try a new style Aero but really have to many jackets at the moment and not enough time to wear them all
To me, Aviation Leathercraft are just cashing in on the Battle of Britain connection, they are well made not WWII accurate but made to what the general public think a Lancaster pilot probably wore, and the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight dont fly high enough to really need to wear one of these.
Go for the Aero, that is my opinion, the Aviation Jacket is just as re-saleable but for wearing the Aero looks more practical.

 

[Edward]

The ALC can be a bargain used, though, and I think the Aero will retain more of its new value. I'm not currently in the market, but eventually I fancy one of the CC models Aero are developing. Just have to decide if I can live with the yellow or order it plain!

 

[rocketeer]

Personally I would never buy any kind of jacket for it's eventual re-sale value simply because I would then be scared to wear it. But my advice would be to buy whatever you actually like and wear it to death, well within reason, but if you are worried about getting it wet, getting dog or horse slobber on it or a little rough wear from you motorbike or car, then I would consider a second hand item.
Just look at how many 'Almost new', 'Hardly worn', and 'In mint condition' jackets turn up on the dreaded 'Bay'. Most of mine have taken some kind of beating, my B3 has bald spots, my A2 has soaked up more spilt beer than I have drunk by leaning on bar tops but most of all I have had fun in them.
And in cold weather, you can always use a good sheepskin as a blanket.

 

[Plumbline]

Having owned a few Irvins .... my favourite was my Eastman "Battle of Britain" which wa a great jacket even with it's RiRi zippers ( which were much better than the DoT originals IMHO ) ... just the right thickness and weight and a really good fit ( for me).

The ALC in the lightweight fleece is a superb jacket also but it was a little bit big all over in a 42 ... and if I'm saying it was big the guys on here would say it was colossal !!!

The older Aero's and the normal weight ALC were just too heavy for normal wear IMHO ... but did soften up with wear ... they were both incredibly warm and the ALC did have the advantage that they would "fit" pockets if requested

I've not seen ( other than photos) the current Aero but by all accounts it looks great. The big downside of the Irvin for me is the lack of pockets ... I've said it before and I'll keep saying it .. a jacket without pockets is like a yacht without a sail IMHO !

That's why the Eastman ANJ-4 is my sheepskin of choice ... closely followed by the D-1 which is possibly the best all round year sheepskin jacket IMHO.

HTH

 

[Edward]

I think John Lever had a hand in the redesign of the Aero Irvin. The old pattern had arms that were signficantly slimmer in shape than the real thing, which was its main flaw. John originally approached the old management a few years ago, but as I recall from the thread on here, the resulting jacket still had the skinny arms. Ken's got it sussed now, though - I saw a couple at the factory, and they look great.

Personally I would never buy any kind of jacket for it's eventual re-sale value simply because I would then be scared to wear it.

Sure; my point - which I should have made clearer, really - was that if the OP was to opt for an ALC, one can be had significantly cheaper by going used, as they don't seem to retain as much of their value on the used market.

 

[Plumbline]

Decent ALC Irvins go for around £300 .... which is round about what most Irvins ( Eastman and Aero ) go for TBH Edward ..... I bought an early 2000's Aero 6 months ago for £175 and an Eastman B-6 ( which was too small so got sold on ) for £317. I sold my 42" ALC Irvin for £375to a chap in Sweden in Feb ( It only cost me £450 direct from ALC at Thruxton )

The best value Irvin Repro on the market ( if buying new) has to be the WPG repro ..... which is a great starter repro for a bargain price.

 

[Edward]

Jings ,it must have changed very recently. Sounds like ALC are holding their own now, then (I should have picked up a brace of them when they were shifting for £200 odds almost new a couple of years ago!). The WPG was a great option for anyone wanting a starter Irvin certainly. Somebody said recently that some of the latest batches weren't as good as they had been (I think it was in the thread re their A2). Can't comment directly on that myself as the only ones I've seen looked fine. I think a lot of them went to guys who wanted them purely for doing reenactment type stuff and so were nturally less incline to spend big than those of us who wear them as Winter coats; seemed like a canny move on WPG's part to me.

At Goodwood last year I saw yet another company doing the sheepskin thing - not ALC or Cirrus, but very much in that sort of mould, aiming at the Morgan-driving classes rather than the WW2 buffs. Wish I could remember the name. Not my style, but a really nice quality product.

 

[Sloan1874]

If I recall, one of the problems with the WPG jackets is the use of plastic taping rather than leather stuff.

 

[Stand By]

As you're going to be "in the neighbourhood" of Galashiels anyway, then you might like to consider a look at Alexander Leathers to see their Irvin …? I know that that's what I'd do - just to consider all options before parting with a wad of lettuce. And I dare say that it'll make you feel better about whichever jacket you end up with, knowing it's the best choice for you.

 

[Plumbline]

I know they did have some plastic taping they used a few years ago but the one I had had leather taping and I believe they current ones do ( I saw one a few months ago in the USA ... ) the zips were YKK ( or perhaps a YKK copy) and for $350 or £200 it looked like a steal ..... nice fit as well.

 

[Edward]

If I recall, one of the problems with the WPG jackets is the use of plastic taping rather than leather stuff.

That was the case with the early ones, yes; don't know about the current stuff. Their website doesn't clarify that (I am amused by the comment that "what you don't get" includes "a useless elastic strap", mind... ). It reminds me of some of the 50s commercial copies of the Irvin, which tended to use pastic tapes. If they've gone over to leather for this, that would be a step up, certainly. The zips don't seem to be the most accurate, but then from what I see most of the big name repro Irvins have struggled to get the zips quite right at one time and another.

As you're going to be "in the neighbourhood" of Galashiels anyway, then you might like to consider a look at Alexander Leathers to see their Irvin …? I know that that's what I'd do - just to consider all options before parting with a wad of lettuce. And I dare say that it'll make you feel better about whichever jacket you end up with, knowing it's the best choice for you.

Probably depends again on whether OP wants accuracy.... AL seem to still be using the old Aero pattern with the skinny arms. [huh] As you say, though, given the kind of spend involved in an Irvin repro these days, it's always worth being aware of what the options are.

 

[Smithy]

I still have the desire to own an Irvin of some flavour. Many will think I'm mad. I live in The Grampian Highlands of country Victoria, Australia. The weather here is hot in the summer but pretty cold in the winter months. Typically in winter we are around freezing point in the mornings and anywhere between 8-14 during the day. I also spend a bit of time out under the stars doing a bit of photography and there is a certain MGB waiting to be purchased in the future.

Garry,

I'm in Melbourne and have an ELC Irvin. Now although we're a tad warmer here than the Grampians, in all honesty I really think you might be far, far better off if you want a sheepskin flying jacket to pick up a B-6 or a D-1 (both of which Aero do). I bought my Irvin when we were last living in Norway and it obviously got a ton of use, since being here though, it's been dragged out on the coldest nights when in the garden. TBH I would've worn it perhaps 3 times during the day over the nearly 6 years I've lived here, and that was only for short periods on the coldest of days.

The sweet spot for an Irvin is 5 Celsius and below. You can sit around in an Irvin up to about 10 Celsius but if you ever went for a walk in one at around those temps, you'd boil within a few minutes.I really don't think you'd get much use out of one in Oz, even south-eastern Oz, the climate here is simply not cold enough IMHO for Irvins and B-3s so one of the less hardcore sheepskins like the B-6 and D-1 would be a better fit with the SE Aussie winter climate. I reckon you'd get a lot, lot more use with one of those than an Irvin.

At Goodwood last year I saw yet another company doing the sheepskin thing - not ALC or Cirrus, but very much in that sort of mould, aiming at the Morgan-driving classes rather than the WW2 buffs. Wish I could remember the name. Not my style, but a really nice quality product.

Might have been Greycar Edward, they're biggish now with the classic car ragtop scene.