Auto collision repair in the 1940s

[AmateisGal]

I was going to put this in the vintage car thread, so bartenders, please move if you feel it is appropriate.

Here's my question:

Does anyone have any good source material for how auto body repair was done in the 1940s, specifically 1946?

Ironically, my husband is an auto body guy (with a degree and everything!) but his interest is in the cars of the '60s and '70s and how repair is done now, not in the '40s. That's why I'm turning to you all.

(And yes, this is for my current novel. )

Anyone have any good ideas on where I can look for this type of stuff?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Prewar cars -- and that's what would have been on the road in 1946, with very few exceptions -- had bolt-on fenders, running boards and such, which when dented or rusted beyond repair could easily be replaced. If the dents weren't all that bad they could be pulled out with a dent-puller tool, which attached to the damaged section and focused the force as the mechanic pulled the metal straight. Cutting and welding damaged body panels was done with acetylene torches. There was no such thing as Bondo, but lead could be used as a body filler if necessary.

There were model-specific instructions in service manuals for straightening damaged bodies and frames -- most cars prior to the mid-thirties had at least some wood in the body framing, and this could be replaced if damaged. All-metal bodies became dominant by the late thirties, and were much more durable.

You might look up a few shop manuals online for the specific cars you have in mind -- there are usually detailed photos or drawing showing exactly what could be done, and how to do it.

 

[AmateisGal]

Thank you so much, Lizzie! I'll check and see if I can find some shop manuals. I looked in Popular Mechanics and there was an advertisement for McSweeney Auto and Aviation School where they taught how to do auto body repair. Would be cool if I could get my hands on some of those materials.

 

[AmateisGal]

And look what I found:

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/...d-cars-also-helpful-for-open-cars-P24343.aspx

Thank you, thank you, Lizzie!

 

[AtomicEraTom]

There are still a few guys out there working with lead as body-filler, too.

 

[jamespowers]

And look what I found:

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/...d-cars-also-helpful-for-open-cars-P24343.aspx

Thank you, thank you, Lizzie!

Faxon is a good resource that I have used before.

 

[AmateisGal]

There are still a few guys out there working with lead as body-filler, too.

Really? Then I might have to hit them up with questions!

 

[AmateisGal]

Faxon is a good resource that I have used before.

Good. I ordered the book.

 

[1930artdeco]

Ford, (I don't know about GM or Chrysler) more than likely would have chucked the fenders and running boards if dented. Unless the dents were relatively minor as it was cheaper to just buy a new fender. That is what he did with many of his mechanical parts, they were designed really for just one use. This way he could control the specs and costs as it is cheaper in time to just bolt on new things rather than spend time leading over dents and welds. The body is a different story, my 1930 Model A is all wood with a metal skin. That would have taken lots of time to fix if the body got damage. Note I said time and not skill as the wood workers were still around that had those skill to make a car.

Hope this helps,

Mike

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I've seen in the Eastwood catalog lead free body solder.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-lead-free-solder.html

 

[AmateisGal]

Ford, (I don't know about GM or Chrysler) more than likely would have chucked the fenders and running boards if dented. Unless the dents were relatively minor as it was cheaper to just buy a new fender. That is what he did with many of his mechanical parts, they were designed really for just one use. This way he could control the specs and costs as it is cheaper in time to just bolt on new things rather than spend time leading over dents and welds. The body is a different story, my 1930 Model A is all wood with a metal skin. That would have taken lots of time to fix if the body got damage. Note I said time and not skill as the wood workers were still around that had those skill to make a car.

Hope this helps,

Mike

Thanks, Mike.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Have been a vintage car fan for 50 years and worked in bodyshops and garages for 20 years so I have a good knowledge of 30s - 40s cars and yes, I have worked with lead body solder.

Basic metal working techiques have not changed much, but the old cars used thicker metal that was harder to work, and plastic body panels were unknown.

I can't write a million word manual telling everything I know, but can answer specific questions.

Can also "edit" the appropriate parts of the story to get the jargon right, and take out obvious bloomers. This really does make a difference. Even people who know nothing about fixing cars can sense when things are right, the same goes for other trades or professions. Such details can make all the difference to the atmosphere of a story. I can't tell you the movies and books I have seen, that dealt specifically with cars, that were spoiled by obviously phony details or dialogue when to get it right would have cost nothing.

 

[Stanley Doble]

If the car was new enough it might have gotten new fenders especially if it was an insurance job. But I have seen some pretty badly damaged cars that were fixed. It was also possible to buy used parts and this would be done if it was quicker and cheaper than fixing the old part.

Youtube has some videos on old school auto repair. Here is a demonstration of leading a seam by Bill Hines, an old time bodyman who is 85 years old in this video.

George Barris shoots his mouth off while Bill Hines works, just like the old days.

Quote: "I learned how to do this in 1941"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85fp1avs

 

[Stanley Doble]

The Fisher body manual might be of limited use. It covers the wood framed steel bodies, called "composite" bodies that were made before the all steel body. But these bodies went out about 1935. Some cars had all steel bodies as early as the twenties, and a few custom built composite limousine type bodies were built as late as 1941. But by 1946 a composite body car would most likely be at least 10 years old, and would not be fixed at all. Cars did not last as long then as they do now. A 10 year old car would be like a 20 or 30 year old car today and who would spend a lot of money fixing a 1990s car? Nobody.

 

[Mr Slug]

I have a '42 Ford, and it had a couple repairs that had been done with lead loading - I had an old guy teach me how to do it, because my car is constantly immersed in water, and the modern plastic 'bondo' type fillers actually absorb moisture and can cause problems.
You need oak paddles to work the lead into shape, they can be made easily by any competent handyman, and a 'moleskin' for wiping the tinning, they are harder to come by, but I used an old leather glove (rough side out) soaked in Russian Tallow.

 

[Stanley Doble]

An excellent place to ask your questions would be the Antique Automobile Club of America forums

http://forums.aaca.org/

Lots of extremely knowledgeable and helpful guys. Suggest you post your questions to the General Discussion or Technical pages.

 

[Stanley Doble]

In the US bodymen used maple paddles and rubbed them in a box of beeswax to prevent the lead sticking. If no beeswax was handy they would use a rag soaked in motor oil. Tallow works too.

In the forties they rubbed the lead in with fine steel wool held in a pair of pliers but today Bill Hines uses turkish towels.

Sticks of lead body solder, beeswax, paddles, Dutch Boy tinning compound were all available from any auto supply store.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The Fisher body manual might be of limited use. It covers the wood framed steel bodies, called "composite" bodies that were made before the all steel body. But these bodies went out about 1935. Some cars had all steel bodies as early as the twenties, and a few custom built composite limousine type bodies were built as late as 1941. But by 1946 a composite body car would most likely be at least 10 years old, and would not be fixed at all. Cars did not last as long then as they do now. A 10 year old car would be like a 20 or 30 year old car today and who would spend a lot of money fixing a 1990s car? Nobody.

Add to this the fact that no new cars were built at all from early 1942 to the tail end of 1945, so the overwhelming majority of cars on the road in 1946 would have been heavily used. You couldn't buy a new car at any price during the war unless you got special permission from your ration board and had a definite war-related need for one -- if you could prove that you did, you'd be issued a certificate allowing you to buy one of the 1942 cars that had been impounded by the Government at the start of the war. But the only option for most people were used cars, and most of those available, judging from newspaper ads, dated from the mid to late thirties. You could get a late twenties or early thirties car during the war for $25 or so, but it'd be a real beater, especially in the rust-prone areas of the country. People lucky enough to have 1940-42 cars held onto them like they were made of gold.

It was very difficult to buy a new car in the US after the war. You might very well have had the cash in hand, but so did millions of other people who'd been saving up during the war, and demand far outstripped supply well into 1948.

 

[AmateisGal]

Have been a vintage car fan for 50 years and worked in bodyshops and garages for 20 years so I have a good knowledge of 30s - 40s cars and yes, I have worked with lead body solder.

Basic metal working techiques have not changed much, but the old cars used thicker metal that was harder to work, and plastic body panels were unknown.

I can't write a million word manual telling everything I know, but can answer specific questions.

Can also "edit" the appropriate parts of the story to get the jargon right, and take out obvious bloomers. This really does make a difference. Even people who know nothing about fixing cars can sense when things are right, the same goes for other trades or professions. Such details can make all the difference to the atmosphere of a story. I can't tell you the movies and books I have seen, that dealt specifically with cars, that were spoiled by obviously phony details or dialogue when to get it right would have cost nothing.

Stanley, thank you SO much for this info and offer of help. I'll definitely be asking you some questions in the future!