Ask a question, get an answer

[deadlyhandsome]

Well I s'poze this is the spot to both ask for, and maybe even receive, advice...
Mr. deadlyhandsome, you appear to have amassed a sizeable collection of felts over your tenure in this joint. Ive been looking at going the custom route for a new hat, and would love your take on the makers out there, such as the quality v price ratio.

Here's some context:
I currently live in my modified akubra fedora (size 60), a regency fawn coloured one that was a replacement that was made for me by Akubra. ( I had the brim trimmed to 2 1/4, as it suits my profile better) I initially bought one new in the fall of 2019, but had a severe fault in the structure of the sweat (it was stitched in askew and off center, to the point that after a month of wearing the hat warped)

I love the replacement hat, and wear it all the time. Like pants for the head, and would feel naked without it.

I have been looking to get a similar hat for warmer weather travel, and been seeking a lighter weight felt. My living in Canada, I started by looking to Leon Drexler as a starting point. I reached out to Stephen but he has since retired this year. So I have to look further afield, and I know of no other canadian custom hatters.

Basically I am looking for a felt hat that is strong enough for travel, robust enough to handle the elements, and light enough for summer wearing or hot climates. Mikael at hufvud wrote to me that a beaver blend would be best suited, as its dense enough, but more flexible than pure beaver.

Well, you have some recent detailed opinions of some of the custom hatters (Hufvud, Hornskov, Agnoulita, or others...)

How do you find they all compare? I am partial to the idea of the 50x re-shapable felts I saw online for Hornskov, but I am unsure of the ribbon work. Im not fond of the rough scalloped trim of petersham.
Likewise, I've been looking at Hufvud, as he too uses a 50x fepsa blend, but I am less keen on the stove-pipe blocking. He does have a vintage 52s block, though) And then there was Agnoulita, who has listed both a hat named in your honour, and one named in honour of this site, though he does not appear to carry that 50x felt, rather rabbit or hare.

Anyhoo, I know it's long missive, but I would love to hear your perspective in comparing these makers. Likewise, if you know of any comparable hatters more local...(i just read further up that belfastboy from vancouver hats folk)

Cheers

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

I think you are on the right track with the 50X FEPSA. I believe Hornskov can make you a hat with non-petersham ribbon for a reasonable up charge. I believe they have some Japanese silk ribbon, but make certain that they know exactly what you want and what you will not accept. If Hufvud offers a 52 block in your size that’s also a great option and no worry about the ribbon. Aside from the ribbon issue, there isn’t much to choose between the two.

Agnoulita is a whole different matter. His hats can be decent, but even his best have small issues. His ribbon is a woven edge (good), but it’s all synthetic (not so good). They are more like customizable Akubras rather than fine custom hats. I have a place for them in my collection, but I’ve also sold half of the hats I commissioned as their faults outweighed other considerations.

For a fine 100% beaver fedora I’d go with Gannon with Winchester felt over the others using FEPSA. I like lots of other hatter too, but Gannon is at the top of quality and less than the top of price. I don’t know if Gannon can get 50X FEPSA, but that’s a thought. If you want to try out a new hatter from The Great White North you should send a PM to @belfastboy his work has been solid and as he is learning the trade his prices are outstanding.

Back to felt, the FEPSA 50X is outstanding. It’s not as clay-like as some videos show it, but mine’s close. I’m seriously considering another. This felt is better than Winchester’s at taking knocks and tumbles without showing the abuse and would make a great travel hat. I think that for stiffer western felt the 100% beaver or nutria is the way to go, but aside from the 50X not being as thin as the 100X the I prefer the 50X for a fedora. The wildcard is the 100% nutria felts in dress-weight. I think it’s going to be an outstanding option, but my first custom using it is still in the works with @belfastboy

I asked Art before he retired if he had any more of his lightweight felts left and he said they were long gone. I don’t know that Winchester is offering them anymore. David’s work at VS is great, and he has some 100X FEPSA, but I don’t know that he has access to 50X.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide. I’m thinking hard about a Gannon in dress-weight nutria for my next commission.

Brent

 

[belfastboy]

Well I s'poze this is the spot to both ask for, and maybe even receive, advice...
Mr. deadlyhandsome, you appear to have amassed a sizeable collection of felts over your tenure in this joint. Ive been looking at going the custom route for a new hat, and would love your take on the makers out there, such as the quality v price ratio.

Here's some context:
I currently live in my modified akubra fedora (size 60), a regency fawn coloured one that was a replacement that was made for me by Akubra. ( I had the brim trimmed to 2 1/4, as it suits my profile better) I initially bought one new in the fall of 2019, but had a severe fault in the structure of the sweat (it was stitched in askew and off center, to the point that after a month of wearing the hat warped)

I love the replacement hat, and wear it all the time. Like pants for the head, and would feel naked without it.

I have been looking to get a similar hat for warmer weather travel, and been seeking a lighter weight felt. My living in Canada, I started by looking to Leon Drexler as a starting point. I reached out to Stephen but he has since retired this year. So I have to look further afield, and I know of no other canadian custom hatters.

Basically I am looking for a felt hat that is strong enough for travel, robust enough to handle the elements, and light enough for summer wearing or hot climates. Mikael at hufvud wrote to me that a beaver blend would be best suited, as its dense enough, but more flexible than pure beaver.

Well, you have some recent detailed opinions of some of the custom hatters (Hufvud, Hornskov, Agnoulita, or others...)

How do you find they all compare? I am partial to the idea of the 50x re-shapable felts I saw online for Hornskov, but I am unsure of the ribbon work. Im not fond of the rough scalloped trim of petersham.
Likewise, I've been looking at Hufvud, as he too uses a 50x fepsa blend, but I am less keen on the stove-pipe blocking. He does have a vintage 52s block, though) And then there was Agnoulita, who has listed both a hat named in your honour, and one named in honour of this site, though he does not appear to carry that 50x felt, rather rabbit or hare.

Anyhoo, I know it's long missive, but I would love to hear your perspective in comparing these makers. Likewise, if you know of any comparable hatters more local...(i just read further up that belfastboy from vancouver hats folk)

Cheers

I am a big fan of the Tonak Antelope (Suede) finish that Agnoulito sells on Etsy.com. It makes a hat with a nice soft hand. I have never tried pouncing it fine to make it a lightweight all season hat but Tonak felts usually have great dye penetration. You might want to check that out to see if there is a colour that you like.

 

[DBA MD DLFAPA1948]

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

I think you are on the right track with the 50X FEPSA. I believe Hornskov can make you a hat with non-petersham ribbon for a reasonable up charge. I believe they have some Japanese silk ribbon, but make certain that they know exactly what you want and what you will not accept. If Hufvud offers a 52 block in your size that’s also a great option and no worry about the ribbon. Aside from the ribbon issue, there isn’t much to choose between the two.

Agnoulita is a whole different matter. His hats can be decent, but even his best have small issues. His ribbon is a woven edge (good), but it’s all synthetic (not so good). They are more like customizable Akubras rather than fine custom hats. I have a place for them in my collection, but I’ve also sold half of the hats I commissioned as their faults outweighed other considerations.

For a fine 100% beaver fedora I’d go with Gannon with Winchester felt over the others using FEPSA. I like lots of other hatter too, but Gannon is at the top of quality and less than the top of price. I don’t know if Gannon can get 50X FEPSA, but that’s a thought. If you want to try out a new hatter from The Great White North you should send a PM to @belfastboy his work has been solid and as he is learning the trade his prices are outstanding.

Back to felt, the FEPSA 50X is outstanding. It’s not as clay-like as some videos show it, but mine’s close. I’m seriously considering another. This felt is better than Winchester’s at taking knocks and tumbles without showing the abuse and would make a great travel hat. I think that for stiffer western felt the 100% beaver or nutria is the way to go, but aside from the 50X not being as thin as the 100X the I prefer the 50X for a fedora. The wildcard is the 100% nutria felts in dress-weight. I think it’s going to be an outstanding option, but my first custom using it is still in the works with @belfastboy

I asked Art before he retired if he had any more of his lightweight felts left and he said they were long gone. I don’t know that Winchester is offering them anymore. David’s work at VS is great, and he has some 100X FEPSA, but I don’t know that he has access to 50X.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide. I’m thinking hard about a Gannon in dress-weight nutria for my next commission.

Brent

Wow! What and education. Thanks so much DH.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I am a big fan of the Tonak Antelope (Suede) finish that Agnoulito sells on Etsy.com. It makes a hat with a nice soft hand. I have never tried pouncing it fine to make it a lightweight all season hat but Tonak felts usually have great dye penetration. You might want to check that out to see if there is a colour that you like.

The antelope/suede finish is also my favorite from Tonak via Agnoulita.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Wow! What and education. Thanks so much DH.

Anytime. I still get lots of help from the patient folks here, and please call me Brent (if you remember).

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Would you mind describing that hat please?

Sure thing. Here are the specs:

5-1/2" Crown (open)
2-3/4" Brim
1-5/8" Ribbon
113g Weight
​

The felt is a rabbit heathered Tonak. I specifically asked for little/no additional pouncing on the supplied body, so it's a bit shaggier in appearance but it's what I wanted. Easy to dry crease though probably would require steam to fully set. I left it open crown for awhile before applying the current crease I have now, though I haven't steamed it in place.

The ribbon is vintage stock that belfastboy acquired from VS when Art retired. The twisted knot and frayed ends are a nice touch IMHO and are completely his creation.

The sweatband is caramel colored and extremely comfortable. As I fall between sizes at 58.5cm, it's definitely one of my best fitting hats. He did a great job hitting my requested dimension.

This is my first and only custom hat, so I can't compare to others. What I can say is that I thoroughly enjoyed the process. I was able to choose the felt body, dimensions, ribbon, sweat, etc. Communication was excellent and the project evolved over the course of several weeks. In my mind I got great value for the money (technically, part of a trade) and I'm very happy with the end product. Bonus that it came from a fellow Lounger.

 

[DBA MD DLFAPA1948]

Thanks for the info. Did you block that yourself or did BB do that? Great either way.

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Thanks for the info. Did you block that yourself or did BB do that? Great either way.

He blocked it during construction. I was given the choice of a few profiles and selected this option. It was supplied open crown and I creased it as shown.

 

[srcphoto]

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

I think you are on the right track with the 50X FEPSA. I believe Hornskov can make you a hat with non-petersham ribbon for a reasonable up charge. I believe they have some Japanese silk ribbon, but make certain that they know exactly what you want and what you will not accept. If Hufvud offers a 52 block in your size that’s also a great option and no worry about the ribbon. Aside from the ribbon issue, there isn’t much to choose between the two.

Agnoulita is a whole different matter. His hats can be decent, but even his best have small issues. His ribbon is a woven edge (good), but it’s all synthetic (not so good). They are more like customizable Akubras rather than fine custom hats. I have a place for them in my collection, but I’ve also sold half of the hats I commissioned as their faults outweighed other considerations.

For a fine 100% beaver fedora I’d go with Gannon with Winchester felt over the others using FEPSA. I like lots of other hatter too, but Gannon is at the top of quality and less than the top of price. I don’t know if Gannon can get 50X FEPSA, but that’s a thought. If you want to try out a new hatter from The Great White North you should send a PM to @belfastboy his work has been solid and as he is learning the trade his prices are outstanding.

Back to felt, the FEPSA 50X is outstanding. It’s not as clay-like as some videos show it, but mine’s close. I’m seriously considering another. This felt is better than Winchester’s at taking knocks and tumbles without showing the abuse and would make a great travel hat. I think that for stiffer western felt the 100% beaver or nutria is the way to go, but aside from the 50X not being as thin as the 100X the I prefer the 50X for a fedora. The wildcard is the 100% nutria felts in dress-weight. I think it’s going to be an outstanding option, but my first custom using it is still in the works with @belfastboy

I asked Art before he retired if he had any more of his lightweight felts left and he said they were long gone. I don’t know that Winchester is offering them anymore. David’s work at VS is great, and he has some 100X FEPSA, but I don’t know that he has access to 50X.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide. I’m thinking hard about a Gannon in dress-weight nutria for my next commission.

Brent

Well, Brent, thank you mightily for the info and suggestions. I'd not thought about Gannon, or the VS option either, as I read earlier about the retirement of Art. Likewise about belfastboy, once I get the required number of posts to let me do a PM, I will do so. I dont even know what kind of hats he does, I've not seen any photos of 'em on the site here.

Seeing as the costs for said hat among the different makers looks about 300ish, who would you say makes the better hat? (yeah, I know, loaded question ;-)

 

[srcphoto]

I am a big fan of the Tonak Antelope (Suede) finish that Agnoulito sells on Etsy.com. It makes a hat with a nice soft hand. I have never tried pouncing it fine to make it a lightweight all season hat but Tonak felts usually have great dye penetration. You might want to check that out to see if there is a colour that you like.

I went to Agnoulita HNC site to see what options there were. The hat listed as "The Lounger" shows the colour options for the antelope finish (not sure what antelope finish rabbit felt is... is it by chance made from ultra rare jackalope fur?)

None of the colours stood out to me. I am fond of taupes and natural earthy greys for colour options. They are somewhat lighter, and go well with my clothes.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I went to Agnoulita HNC site to see what options there were. The hat listed as "The Lounger" shows the colour options for the antelope finish (not sure what antelope finish rabbit felt is... is it by chance made from ultra rare jackalope fur?)

None of the colours stood out to me. I am fond of taupes and natural earthy greys for colour options. They are somewhat lighter, and go well with my clothes.

Antelope, also spelled antiilope is a suede finish. I have a couple of the. They don’t list a gray, but the marine is a great blue and the caramel is very nice too. They used to use jackalope, but they are now a threatened species.

If Agnoulita still has 100% hare felt it’s a worthwhile step up from their rabbit felts.

 

[DBA MD DLFAPA1948]

Thanks for the info. Did you block that yourself or did BB do that? Great either way.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Well, Brent, thank you mightily for the info and suggestions. I'd not thought about Gannon, or the VS option either, as I read earlier about the retirement of Art. Likewise about belfastboy, once I get the required number of posts to let me do a PM, I will do so. I dont even know what kind of hats he does, I've not seen any photos of 'em on the site here.

Seeing as the costs for said hat among the different makers looks about 300ish, who would you say makes the better hat? (yeah, I know, loaded question ;-)

It depends on what you want. Mike at Northwest makes a solid hat and offers a lot of different styles. His hats are...robust. I have a couple of his hats and think of them more as tough hats than fine malleable vintage-esque type hats. David, the man now behind VS, has a lot of skill and makes a wonderful hat. To date, I only have one completed Wolfbrae custom, and @belfastboy is still gaining experience; however I really like the hat he made me. There are lots of others too, and some great ones among them. Your decision will be partly made for you by style and what felt you want. My current favorite though has to be Gannon. His beaver or nutria hats are more than $300, and so are about everyone else's, but they are truly outstanding hats for middle of the road pricing. However, if you wanted a tough and rough work hat or a fedora that could take some knocks without it effecting the crease you would be disappointed in a Gannon beaver fedora. It’s a lot like an ongoing friendly dispute I have with @Yahoody : he wouldn’t like my latest Gannon western at all because it’s not the right type of hat or felt for his uses and his preferences. I don’t want another stiff Winchester western, that he loves, because they are not the right hats or felts for my uses and preferences. It’s not always a matter of one being better than the other; just different. Once you know exactly what you want you’re halfway there.

A year or two ago I would have also steered you to The Phoenix Hat Company where my friend Rick @humanshoes makes outstanding hats at great prices, but I think Rick has stopped taking new orders at the time. When/if he opens his books again make sure you jump in his queue!

 

[belfastboy]

It depends on what you want. Mike at Northwest makes a solid hat and offers a lot of different styles. His hats are...robust. I have a couple of his hats and think of them more as tough hats than fine malleable vintage-esque type hats. David, the man now behind VS, has a lot of skill and makes a wonderful hat. To date, I only have one completed Wolfbrae custom, and @belfastboy is still gaining experience; however I really like the hat he made me. There are lots of others too, and some great ones among them. Your decision will be partly made for you by style and what felt you want. My current favorite though has to be Gannon. His beaver or nutria hats are more than $300, and so are about everyone else's, but they are truly outstanding hats for middle of the road pricing. However, if you wanted a tough and rough work hat or a fedora that could take some knocks without it effecting the crease you would be disappointed in a Gannon beaver fedora. It’s a lot like an ongoing friendly dispute I have with @Yahoody : he wouldn’t like my latest Gannon western at all because it’s not the right type of hat or felt for his uses and his preferences. I don’t want another stiff Winchester western, that he loves, because they are not the right hats or felts for my uses and preferences. It’s not always a matter of one being better than the other; just different. Once you know exactly what you want you’re halfway there.

A year or two ago I would have also steered you to The Phoenix Hat Company where my friend Rick @humanshoes makes outstanding hats at great prices, but I think Rick has stopped taking new orders at the time. When/if he opens his books again make sure you jump in his queue!

I wore my Phoenix mink/beaver mix today out and about with my wife....it is a great hat.

 

[srcphoto]

It depends on what you want. Mike at Northwest makes a solid hat and offers a lot of different styles. His hats are...robust. I have a couple of his hats and think of them more as tough hats than fine malleable vintage-esque type hats. David, the man now behind VS, has a lot of skill and makes a wonderful hat. To date, I only have one completed Wolfbrae custom, and @belfastboy is still gaining experience; however I really like the hat he made me. There are lots of others too, and some great ones among them. Your decision will be partly made for you by style and what felt you want. My current favorite though has to be Gannon. His beaver or nutria hats are more than $300, and so are about everyone else's, but they are truly outstanding hats for middle of the road pricing. However, if you wanted a tough and rough work hat or a fedora that could take some knocks without it effecting the crease you would be disappointed in a Gannon beaver fedora. It’s a lot like an ongoing friendly dispute I have with @Yahoody : he wouldn’t like my latest Gannon western at all because it’s not the right type of hat or felt for his uses and his preferences. I don’t want another stiff Winchester western, that he loves, because they are not the right hats or felts for my uses and preferences. It’s not always a matter of one being better than the other; just different. Once you know exactly what you want you’re halfway there.

A year or two ago I would have also steered you to The Phoenix Hat Company where my friend Rick @humanshoes makes outstanding hats at great prices, but I think Rick has stopped taking new orders at the time. When/if he opens his books again make sure you jump in his queue!

Thats interesting regarding the Gannon hats. I was actually diving thru that site right now looking at the gallery. I like the palette and finishing of the hats. I know pretty much the look of the hat Im going for.
2 1/4 in brim, moderate flange, tallish crown, (not indy style, not my thing) softer felt that can handle a rolling or two, supple sweat, natural colour, able to withstand some rain, light enough for the heat, no liner.
The crown to brim proportions to my face are the thing. Most of the factory hats I see have too wide a brim for too low a crown. There were these matt deckard designed Whippets a few years back that looked the bees knees, but they are long gone.

 

[belfastboy]

Well, Brent, thank you mightily for the info and suggestions. I'd not thought about Gannon, or the VS option either, as I read earlier about the retirement of Art. Likewise about belfastboy, once I get the required number of posts to let me do a PM, I will do so. I dont even know what kind of hats he does, I've not seen any photos of 'em on the site here.

Seeing as the costs for said hat among the different makers looks about 300ish, who would you say makes the better hat? (yeah, I know, loaded question ;-)

I am a hat fan first and foremost and have hats from a dozen different custom hatters. My experience with pricing and value for money is that it depends a lot on the reputation of the hatter and what the market will bear for a hat with his name on it. Of my custom hats all of them are good to very good to great....but it is not really about the look of the hat. With the truly experienced master hatters the "tell" is in the details. The small touches that only show upon close inspection. I could line up all my custom hats that have price points from $250 to $750 and from 3 feet away i challenge anyone to pick out the most expensive from the cheapest.

If you were to pick the hat up and closely inspect you could detect the differences but they are still very subtle and hard to pick out. All custom hatters use similar equipment, the same raw materials so it stands to reason that the big picture items will be a match unless the maker is incompetent and there are not that many out there than survive without at least some competency.

 

[belfastboy]

Thats interesting regarding the Gannon hats. I was actually diving thru that site right now looking at the gallery. I like the palette and finishing of the hats. I know pretty much the look of the hat Im going for.
2 1/4 in brim, moderate flange, tallish crown, (not indy style, not my thing) softer felt that can handle a rolling or two, supple sweat, natural colour, able to withstand some rain, light enough for the heat, no liner.
The crown to brim proportions to my face are the thing. Most of the factory hats I see have too wide a brim for too low a crown. There were these matt deckard designed Whippets a few years back that looked the bees knees, but they are long gone.

I am in the process of ordering a lighter felt, pouncing it to an even lighter weight finish, ventilating it with both top crown and side vent holes, no liner. It is meant to be a summer felt and the wearer does not have to switch to a Panama. We shall see how it turns out.

 

[DBA MD DLFAPA1948]

I am a hat fan first and foremost and have hats from a dozen different custom hatters. My experience with pricing and value for money is that it depends a lot on the reputation of the hatter and what the market will bear for a hat with his name on it. Of my custom hats all of them are good to very good to great....but it is not really about the look of the hat. With the truly experienced master hatters the "tell" is in the details. The small touches that only show upon close inspection. I could line up all my custom hats that have price points from $250 to $750 and from 3 feet away i challenge anyone to pick out the most expensive from the cheapest.

If you were to pick the hat up and closely inspect you could detect the differences but they are still very subtle and hard to pick out. All custom hatters use similar equipment, the same raw materials so it stands to reason that the big picture items will be a match unless the maker is incompetent and there are not that many out there than survive without at least some competency.

 

[DBA MD DLFAPA1948]

You a d DH should give a seminar with visual examples imho

 

[srcphoto]

It depends on what you want... if you wanted a tough and rough work hat or a fedora that could take some knocks without it effecting the crease you would be disappointed in a Gannon beaver fedora.

Curious why I would be disappointed? I've only ever held once a pure beaver hat, at JJ Hat's in NYC in feb 2020. It was a very soft and malleable felt, spanish made hat. Pricey too.
Im definitely not looking for a stiff cardboard cutout hat. I had bought an akubra stylemaster last year, and I kid you not it was so stiff I thought the felt was going to crack in half trying to snap the brim. Took me a few days of beating that hat like a rented mule to get the brim to even snap down, and it still bears the initial sharp dents in the felt from the first snap attempt. For weeks that hat would just look at me the wrong way and I'd have to give it an education with my firsts for the pure gall of the damned thing. The hat finally acquiesced after various blizzards and beatings before becoming soft enough to wear in polite company (needless to say, it was not my favourite hat at first)

Thank you though for the information and opinions from experience though. Its much appreciated. That's why I was asking about the different felts out there, from the 50x fepsa or your other suggestion of Gannon 100x winchester beaver. I understood that 100x beaver was to be stiffer felt than the blends would be, given a similar weight. This is were I get confused between opinions: some say that 100x pure beaver offers the more robust hat capable of being light and shapable while still retaining shape, and others say that the 30x or 50x offers the better option for sucha felt, and reserving the 100x for the finer finish of a dress hat that never gets its hands dirty.