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[deadlyhandsome]

Coconut oil brings out the colour in a felt, according to the legend himself - Art Fawcett.

Okay, your referring to luring. Most hatters don’t do it, but I like it on my custom hats where it’s been done. Any 100% pure coconut oil can be used. Be careful, you can also easily apply it unevenly and screw up your felt. Have you read Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating? You need to read that before you continue.

 

[jlee562]

Thank you for your answer kind sir. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to overestimate my abilities, not at all! I'm here to learn. And everything that I'm saying, is something that someone in this group have already told me.

Could you please explain to me, which flange was used, in your opinion, to make this brim? Because I'm quite confused right now.

I don't know which flange was used, this will probably be trial and error for you.

I can however, illustrate the difference between a "flat" brim, an actually flat brim, and an unflanged hat body.





The hat on the right has probably the flattest flange of my personal hats, but it is flanged, as you can see by comparing to the flat brim hat and raw hat body. And even for flat brims, there is a flange.

 

[belfastboy]

Okay, your referring to luring. Most hatters don’t do it, but I like it on my custom hats where it’s been done. Any 100% pure coconut oil can be used. Be careful, you can also easily apply it unevenly and screw up your felt. Have you read Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating? You need to read that before you continue.

I have my wife's permission to use her coconut oil in our pantry but have yet to screw up the courage to use it on a real hat. One day I may be brave enough, perhaps on a hat that I have already screwed up in some way and the risk is small to non existent.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thank you for your answer kind sir. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to overestimate my abilities, not at all! I'm here to learn. And everything that I'm saying, is something that someone in this group have already told me.

Could you please explain to me, which flange was used, in your opinion, to make this brim? Because I'm quite confused right now.

Are you just looking to make a hat or two for yourself? Learning hat making is not something that can be done watching a YouTube video and chatting on the web. People apprentice with hatters to learn how to do it right. Felt hats are incredibly simple, but there are a lot of tricks and a lot of ways to get them wrong. You’ll also find that you can only get so far without some expensive dedicated hat making equipment. You can’t overcome this with more handwork or more time spent on the hat. I also encourage you to do some reading. There are old threads here that address many of your questions, and there is a lot of information in old books, such as the before mentioned Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovation. The Fedora Lounge isn’t a hat makers information exchange, and few of us make hats. I don’t think many here mind answering an occasional question, but you need to do some reading and study.

 

[belfastboy]

Thank you for your answer kind sir. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to overestimate my abilities, not at all! I'm here to learn. And everything that I'm saying, is something that someone in this group have already told me.

Could you please explain to me, which flange was used, in your opinion, to make this brim? Because I'm quite confused right now.

Or you can go ahead complete the hat without a flange and then view the results. Does it meet a standard? Is the finished product something you would be proud to sell to someone and say..."I made that!" You can take advice or not but the best teacher (and the hard part) is that old trial and error is the best teacher. Jump in, make a hat, screw it up, learn the lesson and make the next one better. You will make mistakes, you will likely wreck good felts, chalk it up to the cost of your apprenticeship. I think that with hats, as it is with about everything, it is very hard to short circuit the process and make a hat without the proper tools. Pick any craft and ask yourself..."could I do this without the proper tools?". Invariably the answer is a strong NO, why would hat making be any different?

 

[Emilis]

I don't know which flange was used, this will probably be trial and error for you.

I can however, illustrate the difference between a "flat" brim, an actually flat brim, and an unflanged hat body.





The hat on the right has probably the flattest flange of my personal hats, but it is flanged, as you can see by comparing to the flat brim hat and raw hat body. And even for flat brims, there is a flange.

But that's the thing, I do not want my hats brim to be flat, nor to be facing up like your "flat" hats brim is. The ones I would like to make, the brim would be facing down. Is there a flange for that aswell?

 

[Emilis]

Are you just looking to make a hat or two for yourself? Learning hat making is not something that can be done watching a YouTube video and chatting on the web. People apprentice with hatters to learn how to do it right. Felt hats are incredibly simple, but there are a lot of tricks and a lot of ways to get them wrong. You’ll also find that you can only get so far without some expensive dedicated hat making equipment. You can’t overcome this with more handwork or more time spent on the hat. I also encourage you to do some reading. There are old threads here that address many of your questions, and there is a lot of information in old books, such as the before mentioned Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovation. The Fedora Lounge isn’t a hat makers information exchange, and few of us make hats. I don’t think many here mind answering an occasional question, but you need to do some reading and study.

So the situation for me is like this... In my country, there is literally only one lady that makes hats, and when I started asking questions about apprenticeship, she clearly started ignoring. Next, there is no course in any school that teaches anything related to hat making. Then the global pandemic situation absolutely limits me to travel anywhere abroad, so to get in touch with any hatter from a different country about apprenticeship is useless. And to top it all off, even if I would get apprenticeship somewhere, I do not have much money as I'm a student in university, so I wouldn't be able to support myself from my pocket. Parents are out of the question aswell. And I know what all of you are going to say now: "Rethink if you really want this", "You're better off with some other proffesion", but I've already made up my mind. I WILL FIND A WAY TO DO THIS.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

So the situation for me is like this... In my country, there is literally only one lady that makes hats, and when I started asking questions about apprenticeship, she clearly started ignoring. Next, there is no course in any school that teaches anything related to hat making. Then the global pandemic situation absolutely limits me to travel anywhere abroad, so to get in touch with any hatter from a different country about apprenticeship is useless. And to top it all off, even if I would get apprenticeship somewhere, I do not have much money as I'm a student in university, so I wouldn't be able to support myself from my pocket. Parents are out of the question aswell. And I know what all of you are going to say now: "Rethink if you really want this", "You're better off with some other proffesion", but I've already made up my mind. I WILL FIND A WAY TO DO THIS.

Well, determination will make up for a lot of deficiencies. However, have you READ the book and searched existing threads and sources?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

But that's the thing, I do not want my hats brim to be flat, nor to be facing up like your "flat" hats brim is. The ones I would like to make, the brim would be facing down. Is there a flange for that aswell?

You flange it up and then snap it down. You can snap it down in just the front as a classic fedora or down in the front and back in the safari style.

 

[jlee562]

But that's the thing, I do not want my hats brim to be flat, nor to be facing up like your "flat" hats brim is. The ones I would like to make, the brim would be facing down. Is there a flange for that aswell?

No, they just have the brim snapped down

 

[Emilis]

Well, determination will make up for a lot of deficiencies. However, have you READ the book and searched existing threads and sources?

Im always researching excisting threads, but I haven't read any book yet. One member recommended me 'Hats' by Alison Hart. Any other modern literature out there?

 

[Emilis]

@deadlyhandsome @jlee562 And if I do not flange it, what's going to happen to the brim?

 

[belfastboy]

But that's the thing, I do not want my hats brim to be flat, nor to be facing up like your "flat" hats brim is. The ones I would like to make, the brim would be facing down. Is there a flange for that aswell?

There is a flange for everything....that is why the capital costs for opening a custom hat shop is so prohibitively expensive.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Im always researching excisting threads, but I haven't read any book yet. One member recommended me 'Hats' by Alison Hart. Any other modern literature out there?

felt hat making isn’t a modern art. The best books are going to be old.

 

[belfastboy]

So the situation for me is like this... In my country, there is literally only one lady that makes hats, and when I started asking questions about apprenticeship, she clearly started ignoring. Next, there is no course in any school that teaches anything related to hat making. Then the global pandemic situation absolutely limits me to travel anywhere abroad, so to get in touch with any hatter from a different country about apprenticeship is useless. And to top it all off, even if I would get apprenticeship somewhere, I do not have much money as I'm a student in university, so I wouldn't be able to support myself from my pocket. Parents are out of the question as well. And I know what all of you are going to say now: "Rethink if you really want this", "You're better off with some other proffesion", but I've already made up my mind. I WILL FIND A WAY TO DO THIS.

Yes, I applaud your commitment BUT maybe a part of 'finding a way to do this" is to get a job, accumulate some money so you can afford to buy proper equipment. Perhaps you are setting yourself up to fail by attempting to run BEFORE you learn to walk. Buy a proper block, a proper flange, (in ONE size) a rounding jack, a tollicker/puller/pushier downer and make one proper hat. If you can't afford the equipment then get a part time job and save til you can afford it. Then sell that hat, put the proceeds into more equipment and make another, each time use the money to grow your tool shed.

 

[Emilis]

felt hat making isn’t a modern art. The best books are going to be old.

I agree, but I would believe that over the years someone might have made a modern version/approach to this.

Which book would you recommend for me to read?

 

[belfastboy]

I agree, but I would believe that over the years someone might have made a modern version/approach to this.

Which book would you recommend for me to read?

The one that Deadlyhandsome referenced a few days back. It is a free PDF online.

 

[Emilis]

Yes, I applaud your commitment BUT maybe a part of 'finding a way to do this" is to get a job, accumulate some money so you can afford to buy proper equipment. Perhaps you are setting yourself up to fail by attempting to run BEFORE you learn to walk. Buy a proper block, a proper flange, (in ONE size) a rounding jack, a tollicker/puller/pushier downer and make one proper hat. If you can't afford the equipment then get a part time job and save til you can afford it. Then sell that hat, put the proceeds into more equipment and make another, each time use the money to grow your tool shed.

It sounds crazy, but one of my friends offered to loan me some money for the tools! I have a block coming to me already, I have a self-made tollicker, I'm going to make a pusherdown aswell, instead of buy a pullerdown I just bought a boomerang, so I only need a flange and a rounding jack (which as you know are of the most expensive pieces) as we speak.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

@deadlyhandsome @jlee562 And if I do not flange it, what's going to happen to the brim?

I’ve ironed the brims flat on western conversions. Without some sort of flange they are dead and...cheap looking. The flange is what gives the brim it’s personality and it’s character. You’ll also find that if you’re planning on making hats for customers you will need a great many flanges. If you make eight ten sizes of hats (6 3/4 to 7 3/4) and offer them in standard and long oval (10X2=20) and then have flanges for five sizes of brims (20X5=100) and offer three profiles per flange (100X3=300) and pay $150 US per flange (300X150= $45,000) you can see just how expensive it can be. Now not every hatter has that many flanges, but some have considerably more. Add in band blocks, crown blocks, sewing machines, a sandbagger, a crown iron, a pouncing table, shackles, etc., and you can spend $250,000 for a reasonably well equipped shop. You can make hats with a lot smaller investment, but you’ll also have to turn away a lot of customers and be limited on what you can make. You’ll also spend more time making a hat that won’t be as nice as the hat made quickly in a fully equipped shop. Your wages per hour will go down and you’ll have a hard time getting customers. Hufvud seems to have a lot of business and he just started out, maybe he’ll share how he did it. To answer your question: You can make a hat without a flange, but it wouldn’t be a hat that I’d want to own.

 

[humanshoes]

But that's the thing, I do not want my hats brim to be flat, nor to be facing up like your "flat" hats brim is. The ones I would like to make, the brim would be facing down. Is there a flange for that aswell?

HatBlocksPoland on Etsy. There you will find the downturn flange block you're looking for. Something like this except you'll want to order it with a different crown block. There are shortcuts to proper hat making. Try them if you wish...until you wish you hadn't. The problem with shortcuts is that one is more likely to get lost on the journey. It's usually a surer bet to stay on the well established routes. I studied and researched everything I could find on the subject for over a year, then I invested in basic, NECESSARY hat tools, then, some two years later, after much trial and error, I made my first hat for public consumption. Not a great hat, but nothing to be ashamed of either.
If you're young, you have plenty of time to get there. If you're old, no one much cares how long it takes you to get there.