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[scottyrocks]

I agree with RJR and Fruno. You paid extra for a service that one business or the other failed to provide, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to request some form of compensation. Of course, for that to happen one or the other would have to assume responsibility for the delay, and you know how that goes. If you've purchased from Bencraft before they might offer a "good faith" refund even if they weren't at fault just to ensure they wouldn't lose business from you in the future, but in my experience the U.S.P.S. on the whole doesn't care and will use or concoct any excuse to not return your money. And if the extreme weather in the northeast was actually a factor they might be within their rights. But it can't hurt to try.

If the phrase, 'Guaranteed delivery by ______,' wasn't in the paperwork, I wouldn't bother.

 

[humanshoes]

The patch is an embroidered hunting horn which signifies Infantry, but is not specific to any unit (company or regiment). This particular version was used by officers of the infantry, gennerally of the United States Army or Volunteers/Militia of roughly the 1850's through 1870 or so.......
It was also very infrequently used by Confederate officers of infantry also........during the American Civil War.
Best,
M
P S Beautiful hat by the way! Really, really nice!

Good info there Hatman. Let's just hope the fella doesn't get "killed" on the battlefield before he learns the truth. Thanks for the compliment on the hat, although it probably looks something like this by now.

 

[M Hatman]

Good info there Hatman. Let's just hope the fella doesn't get "killed" on the battlefield before he learns the truth. Thanks for the compliment on the hat, although it probably looks something like this by now. View attachment 113290

 

[jlee562]

You paid extra for a service,I'd ask for a refund or refuse also.

Ditto. Not necessarily Bencraft's fault, but let them and USPS duke it out over loss of business.

Did weather have any impact?


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

I agree with RJR and Fruno. You paid extra for a service that one business or the other failed to provide, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to request some form of compensation. Of course, for that to happen one or the other would have to assume responsibility for the delay, and you know how that goes. If you've purchased from Bencraft before they might offer a "good faith" refund even if they weren't at fault just to ensure they wouldn't lose business from you in the future, but in my experience the U.S.P.S. on the whole doesn't care and will use or concoct any excuse to not return your money. And if the extreme weather in the northeast was actually a factor they might be within their rights. But it can't hurt to try.

Thanks for the feedback, gents.

The tracking information doesn't give me any helpful info regarding weather, they still haven't updated the delivery date. It is showing as a Priority Mail Express package which supposedly offers a money back guarantee if the ship time is over two days.

It left Chicago less than an hour ago, so there's a slim chance it might make it tomorrow.

Otherwise I guess I'm going to visit Meyer The Hatter first!

 

[Richard Morgan]

The seller is in Alberta, Canada so it looks like it is a Canadian Stetson. I looked through the date Stetsons by their size tag thread and came away empty. I’m going through liner dating now, but she many of the old photos have been lost.


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Check this link out. It the later part of it I think you'll find that the hats with the gold size tag are from a later licensee and, like @Frunobulax says above most likely from the 60s and 70s. I have a Canadian OR from this timeframe that is really a nice hat.

 

[Richard Morgan]

As always when we talk about Borsalino we seek absolute perfection, for better or for worse.
First we begin to say that the model that Anthony manages is typical for the American market.
He chose it among others who did not respond to his expectations, with what criterion the choice was made I do not know, but it is fascinating to see the creation of the crease even if misleading.
Each Borsalino has its own personality and does not depend absolutely on the date on which it was made.
There are some old Borsalino that are quite rigid and not very malleable, but the folding is not a quality factor. Other modern ones that are very malleable, enough to keep their shape a little. See for example the hat for the European market "Icaro". I
have many Borsalino and each has a different characteristic, this was the great appeal of the "Antica Casa" in Alessandria, but I often wonder what we are talking about and why

Thank you Daniele. While I love vintage hats, I don't think we can say that all new hats are junk and all vintage hats are treasures. That is just not true. I have Borsalinos from the 90s and 00s that are wonderful hats that can be creased any way I want. I also have Borsalinos from the 50s that are very nice but not exceptional. The same is true for the American brands. Most of us on FL have at least a couple of modern Stetsons or Biltmores and like them at least enough to post them on WHAYWT. Quality of materials and workmanship have always varied and always will. This is true for mass produced hats and customs.
The true collectors among us usually focus on pre-50s hats. But for those of us who are mostly about wearing our hats, we should keep an open mind about vintage or not vintage.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Thank you Daniele. While I love vintage hats, I don't think we can say that all new hats are junk and all vintage hats are treasures. That is just not true. I have Borsalinos from the 90s and 00s that are wonderful hats that can be creased any way I want. I also have Borsalinos from the 50s that are very nice but not exceptional. The same is true for the American brands. Most of us on FL have at least a couple of modern Stetsons or Biltmores and like them at least enough to post them on WHAYWT. Quality of materials and workmanship have always varied and always will. This is true for mass produced hats and customs.
The true collectors among us usually focus on pre-50s hats. But for those of us who are mostly about wearing our hats, we should keep an open mind about vintage or not vintage.

I fully agree with your thinking Richard. We often speak of hats for absolute quality standards that do not exist in the historical-productive reality. All hat producers have had high and low moments, different models and qualities that have adapted to the times. To believe that everything that comes from the past is covered with gold is a blank thought. Regarding Borsalino and its production we can write a few chapters that, here in Italy, were made by a historian of hats. It remains an irrefutable fact that even in the so vilified current production there are some fabulous hats, not all, in fact very few, but there are. Is the price exaggerated? Yes. The uninteresting shapes? Yes. But some are really magnificent. So it has always been. This also applies to other Italian production hats such as Barbisio-Cervo, Panizza, Tesi and some others. Of course if a hat is judged by how high the crown or the width of the brim, or by its fold, we are on the wrong path. The same discourse of assorted banalities can be applied to wool hats. Now I'm sick of hearing the usual stories about the superiority of one material compared to another, the divide between Europe and the States is total about what has been used to make the hats. It is part of the working tradition, of the materials, of the intrinsic capabilities of those who treat the materials. Opening the mind and training eyes and hands is an imperative for those who want to collect and wear hats, often the words without experience are just words and nothing but words.

 

[Redfokker]

I fully agree with your thinking Richard. We often speak of hats for absolute quality standards that do not exist in the historical-productive reality. All hat producers have had high and low moments, different models and qualities that have adapted to the times. To believe that everything that comes from the past is covered with gold is a blank thought. Regarding Borsalino and its production we can write a few chapters that, here in Italy, were made by a historian of hats. It remains an irrefutable fact that even in the so vilified current production there are some fabulous hats, not all, in fact very few, but there are. Is the price exaggerated? Yes. The uninteresting shapes? Yes. But some are really magnificent. So it has always been. This also applies to other Italian production hats such as Barbisio-Cervo, Panizza, Tesi and some others. Of course if a hat is judged by how high the crown or the width of the brim, or by its fold, we are on the wrong path. The same discourse of assorted banalities can be applied to wool hats. Now I'm sick of hearing the usual stories about the superiority of one material compared to another, the divide between Europe and the States is total about what has been used to make the hats. It is part of the working tradition, of the materials, of the intrinsic capabilities of those who treat the materials. Opening the mind and training eyes and hands is an imperative for those who want to collect and wear hats, often the words without experience are just words and nothing but words.

+1 Hear Hear!

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I’m looking at this hat. Seller has no idea what it is and the sweatband appears to be unmarked. No idea of its provenance.

Does anyone feel comfortable stating that the hat is fur felt and not wool/buffalo?

Thanks, Brent


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[1967Cougar390]

Ok Loungers, not sure how to proceed here.

I ordered a black Tesi straw from Bencraft on Easter Sunday. Paid extra for "1-2 day shipping" because the whole reason I bought it was to take it to NOLA on Saturday.

It's Thursday, and according to tracking, my hat arrived in Chicago this morning, even though USPS' own delivery estimate was yesterday.

So, while there is a chance it might arrive tomorrow and all will be fine...If it doesnt, I won't have a use for it. I realize Bencraft isn't at fault per se, but on the other hand, I paid for a service which was not provided. Would I be out of line for asking for a refund on shipping? If it doesn't arrive tomorrow, I'd probably just refuse to even take delivery.

I think you’d be justified asking for a refund. After all you paid for a service so you should get what you paid for.

Steven

 

[Tukwila]

I’m looking at this hat. Seller has no idea what it is and the sweatband appears to be unmarked. No idea of its provenance.

Does anyone feel comfortable stating that the hat is fur felt and not wool/buffalo?

Thanks, Brent


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Wool hats here usually come in sizes S, M, L, XL, and have a floppy, welted brim. I'm guessing fur felt. Nothing under the sweat?

 

[Richard Morgan]

I’m looking at this hat. Seller has no idea what it is and the sweatband appears to be unmarked. No idea of its provenance.

Does anyone feel comfortable stating that the hat is fur felt and not wool/buffalo?

Thanks, Brent


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with Tuk and will add that American made products with wool content are required to state that content and with hats it almost always is listed on the size tag

 

[glider]

I think it's safe to assume that it isn't fur felt however it is a good looking hat. If I thought it was worth the asking price I'd buy it .

I’m looking at this hat. Seller has no idea what it is and the sweatband appears to be unmarked. No idea of its provenance.

Does anyone feel comfortable stating that the hat is fur felt and not wool/buffalo?

Thanks, Brent


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wyldkarma]

Buying Vintage hats is fairly new to me. Does anyone have a rough guide as to to fair market value of various brands? Fair vs excellent condition for hats like a Penny Marathon, a decent Borsalino, Stetson OR, etc? Sure, just like artwork they are worth whatever the market is bearing and how deep your pocketbook, but realistically is a Stratoliner really worth over $300? Or a Borsalino at over $1000? Any guidelines here for a neophyte? Ebay and Etsy are all over the place in values.

 

[Bamaboots]

Buying Vintage hats is fairly new to me. Does anyone have a rough guide as to to fair market value of various brands? Fair vs excellent condition for hats like a Penny Marathon, a decent Borsalino, Stetson OR, etc? Sure, just like artwork they are worth whatever the market is bearing and how deep your pocketbook, but realistically is a Stratoliner really worth over $300? Or a Borsalino at over $1000? Any guidelines here for a neophyte? Ebay and Etsy are all over the place in values.

No real guides to be had. eBay sold listings is a good place to start, not the prices being asked for. Look for the ones in your size and the condition you would like. Bear in mind that particular models, such as the OR have different quality designations causing the prices to sometimes vary dramatically.

 

[glider]

Well I'm not really a collector so I compare the price for a used hat to the price of a new one. I understand that some hats aren't made like they were at one time however it's still possible to buy a very nice hat new. Probably my limit for a used hat would be around a hundred bucks and of course there are used hats that are worth a lot more than that, just not to me.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Wool hats here usually come in sizes S, M, L, XL, and have a floppy, welted brim. I'm guessing fur felt. Nothing under the sweat?

Except Stetson makes some wool hats in fitted hat sizes and the material isn’t on the tag it’s on the sweat...and this hat has a blank sweat. I also recently acquired inadvertently another wool hat and aside from the hand the only way I knew it was wool was by googling the model name.

I’ve asked the seller to look under the sweat, but so far nothing. Maybe I’ll roll the dice.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I think it's safe to assume that it isn't fur felt however it is a good looking hat. If I thought it was worth the asking price I'd buy it .

Why do you think it isn’t fur felt? Thanks for the help.


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[scottyrocks]

Buying Vintage hats is fairly new to me. Does anyone have a rough guide as to to fair market value of various brands? Fair vs excellent condition for hats like a Penny Marathon, a decent Borsalino, Stetson OR, etc? Sure, just like artwork they are worth whatever the market is bearing and how deep your pocketbook, but realistically is a Stratoliner really worth over $300? Or a Borsalino at over $1000? Any guidelines here for a neophyte? Ebay and Etsy are all over the place in values.

It's basically as you said. An item is worth what you are willing to pay for it.

Many here will spend more than I will on a fedora, new or vintage, and do it many times over the course of time.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Buying Vintage hats is fairly new to me. Does anyone have a rough guide as to to fair market value of various brands? Fair vs excellent condition for hats like a Penny Marathon, a decent Borsalino, Stetson OR, etc? Sure, just like artwork they are worth whatever the market is bearing and how deep your pocketbook, but realistically is a Stratoliner really worth over $300? Or a Borsalino at over $1000? Any guidelines here for a neophyte? Ebay and Etsy are all over the place in values.

There are way too many variables. Having a large head I’m sensitive to pricing by size. At 7 5/8 I’m lucky if I don’t have to pay more than a 150-200% premium over a size 7.

What size are you? Perhaps the best way is the put hats on your watch list just to see what they sell for and do that for a while before bidding?


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