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[zetwal]

Ok...Thanks. This is the Panama I just got.

OK great. You got the pic up too. There is a thread called new hats, and another called the panama canal. Free free to post your new hat there as well. Welcome to the Lounge!

 

[Canadian Cowboy]

Hello Loungers, When a person is a round or regular oval can they wear a long oval hat of the exact same size?Will it conform to their head shape?Would the hat it have to be steamed to conform it?The question is for both Felt and straw Hats.
Thanks in advance for any answers/reply's
CC

 

[carouselvic]

yes

 

[Canadian Cowboy]

Is that yes that it would fit?What about steaming Etc.
CC

 

[zetwal]

When a person is a round or regular oval can they wear a long oval hat of the exact same size?Will it conform to their head shape?

Some hats conform easily to the shape of the scull. Others do not. It depends on the stiffness of the felt as well as the the style of reed attachment, etc. Sometimes forcing the hat to change shape can alter the curve of the brim (and in some cases even the front of the crown as well).

 

[T Rick]

Back to Panama's for a question if I could. What exactly defines one (or is it maybe not an exact definition? I seem to recall that a "true" Panama hat was made there, though I am pretty sure that is not the definition used here...).

Was looking at the Akubra Reef hat (as well as the Range hat). Both are woven from natural material (hemp, I just can't convince myself that the polypropylene Panama hats Akubra makes are something I'd want). Are these (Range and Reef) hats considered Panama's? How would they be for a Summer/Tropical hat?

 

[zetwal]

What exactly defines one (or is it maybe not an exact definition? I seem to recall that a "true" Panama hat was made there, though I am pretty sure that is not the definition used here...

An authentic "Panama hat" is woven in Ecuador from a particular type of natural straw.

 

[danofarlington]

An authentic "Panama hat" is woven in Ecuador from a particular type of natural straw.

I would add that for marketing purposes, especially on E Bay, everyone selling a straw hat in a fedora shape seems to call them "Panama hats." A real Panama hat has a fine weave so the texture is more like fabric than stiff straws. You can always tell the difference by a close-up photo. Price-wise, straw hats go for $25-100, and Panama hats for a lot more. Prices can get ridiculous, but you don't have to pay top dollar to get an outstanding hat. Figure to pay no less than $200, probably more, for a good one, unless you snag a deal on E bay or at some secondhand store, where they don't know what's what.

 

[Chinaski]

Back to Panama's for a question if I could. What exactly defines one (or is it maybe not an exact definition? I seem to recall that a "true" Panama hat was made there, though I am pretty sure that is not the definition used here...).

Was looking at the Akubra Reef hat (as well as the Range hat). Both are woven from natural material (hemp, I just can't convince myself that the polypropylene Panama hats Akubra makes are something I'd want). Are these (Range and Reef) hats considered Panama's? How would they be for a Summer/Tropical hat?

To add just a little more (and I'm no expert - this is bare minimum knowledge) a panama hat, as noted, is made in Ecuador out of toquilla palm. In general, the less expensive panamas are made in the town of Cuenca, and the more expensive are made in Montecristo. It's possible to get a genuine panama for less than $50 and as much as $25,000 +. Weave counts, the weaver who does the work, etc. all play into the price. As well as hype...

 

[T Rick]

Thanks again Gentlemen, for educating a noob with a thirst for subject knowledge. I applaud your patience and willingness to share. :eusa_clap

 

[DragonJade]

Hi There fellas.

I'm new to the lounge.

I get good deals in the UK on ebay. I get a lot of old vintage hats from British manufacturers though. This is sadly because the felt is way better on anything that you can by new. But I pick vintage Locks and Battersbys, and if I'm lucky enough a Stetson. I get these all for only a few pounds and in quite good condition. I envy the ebay customers in the states though, where hatmaking is still practiced and a day to day basis, a re-block for instance is a little thing it seems there. I couldn't find anyone in the UK and so I started to block my own just so I get what I wanted out of the hat!.
I saw an open road stetson go for a little over 20 pounds the other day, vintage and boxed in a shop in Birmingham - just advertised as "old hat" it was in really good condition - but I was working and couldn't stop. I like the style very-very much.

But here's my question.
Does anyone know how to get leather sweatbands - location - address - it's completely none existent in the U.K.

I'm guessing you've already done a search of UK hat shops and have emailed them about getting sweatbands. How about the Yellow Pages? There's quite a few hits on that.

Where did you see the hat in Birmingham? - for future reference when I'm next in the country.

 

[fmw]

I would add that for marketing purposes, especially on E Bay, everyone selling a straw hat in a fedora shape seems to call them "Panama hats." A real Panama hat has a fine weave so the texture is more like fabric than stiff straws. You can always tell the difference by a close-up photo. Price-wise, straw hats go for $25-100, and Panama hats for a lot more. Prices can get ridiculous, but you don't have to pay top dollar to get an outstanding hat. Figure to pay no less than $200, probably more, for a good one, unless you snag a deal on E bay or at some secondhand store, where they don't know what's what.

Fairly coarse and inexpensive hats are also woven in Ecuador of paja toquilla and are very much genuine Panama hats. They are simply inexpensive ones. For that matter some straw hats (not Panama) can be finely woven and very expensive. The "panamaness" of a hat relates to its country of origin and material, not its price.

 

[T Rick]

Fairly coarse and inexpensive hats are also woven in Ecuador of paja toquilla and are very much genuine Panama hats. They are simply inexpensive ones. For that matter some straw hats (not Panama) can be finely woven and very expensive. The "panamaness" of a hat relates to its country of origin and material, not its price.

Having just spent considerable time with a simple Google search, I've added a bit to my (basic) knowledge base. There are indeed a number of affordable, nice looking (from the web pages anyway) and inexpensive hats that are Ecuador produced "Panama" hats. They are coarsely woven as you state, of genuine toquilla palm, with the coarser/wider strands being used for the less expensive hats (these take far less labor/time to produce due to the coarser material, and will have a lesser number of weaves in a given surface area).

There are two Cities primarily cited as sources for these hats (though there are others also, including the Capitol City of Ecuador, Quito). These two are Montecristi (where the finest hats and smallest weave are generally said to be produced), and Cuenca, where the lesser expensive larger weave hats are produced (again, these are generalities, and are somewhat contradicted and disputed as absolutes by some online Sellers, who claim either many Montecristi hats are actually made in Cuenca, or that they can and do make hats of equal quality/fineness in Cuenca). One other notable distinction is that the material of the Cuenca hats is more often (but not always) bleached white, while that of the Montecristi produced finer weave hats is generally left in the natural color.

What seems important is to choose a price range/quality level that one would prefer, then shop the offerings of several with that in mind. Before purchase, it would seem prudent to also research the chosen Seller on the web, though wading through the material to discern what is truth vs. what may be presented by competitors may prove difficult.

One thing is for sure, it really is a much more involved subject than I'd expected, and really quite interesting (to me anyway). I'd expect I will end up with two Panama's, both genuine, one inexpensive coarse weave ($100 +or-), and one moderately expensive higher quality tighter weave (around $300 seems to be a good value point with some Sellers).

 

[Tomasso]

The "panamaness" of a hat relates to its country of origin

And yet one who is fairly knowledgeable in the subject of panama hats states in this thread:

There are fine panama hats in Colombia and Peru (the borders came much later than the hats!).

 

[rlk]

And yet one who is fairly knowledgeable in the subject of panama hats states in this thread:

1867

1900

Yes, as these maps show, Panama was part of Colombia before U.S. "assistance" and the south Ecuadorean border was fluid.

 

[fmw]

Yes. There are still Panama hats made in Peru and Colombia but very few. I believe almost all the Panamas are exported from Ecuador -Montecristi on the coast and Cuenca in the highlands. The quality depends on the fineness of the straw and the weave. Finer takes longer and time is money. I still remember my grandfather coming home from work in Havana with his optimo Panama on his head. You could see the ridge on the crown from a distance. Add a guayabera, sunglasses and cigar and you had the quintessential Cuban man of the 1950's.

 

[Gumbo Book]

Hey Dragon Jade.

The shop in question is COW ( not affiliated with the webpage ) Directly across the road from Birmingham bus station. At anyone time they have about 30 - 40 vintage hats, at the most expensive they run up to only £20. But they mostly have the Austrian velour type. Although they do occasionly have stetsons in - they are of the stingy brim type. They also do Pendleton shirts for about a fiver. I must stress though, that I am nothing to do with them...it just an hour down the road for me so I know about it.
With regards to hats in the UK? Most now are for equestrian purposes or ladies hats for derby occasions ( the sort of thing you see at the grand national )
Lock and co in London? They've just released a new range, although to me it looks like they re-vamped some of thier older range. Bates in London, may have some old stock dating back about 20-30 years ( I say "MAY") If the chap in the shop is kind enough to let you bother him. Apart from that there is Hornets in Kensington.
I remember going to London some 25 years ago where my grandfather had his hat stripped blocked - and cleaned in a day at place in south London that has now closed down. I would hazard a guess that there are no gentlemens outfitters in the whole of England now. I've searched and searched. Lock & Co will refurbish a silk top hat for about £1000 and they did offer to re block my vintage herbert johnson but I didn't want them to mess with the block shape ( I didn't think they had the right shape )
I may be out of line - but I have a collection of Lock & Co - christys - And while they are a good hat on a budget I find personally that the sweat is placed too low, biting into the forehead. And if I'm not mistaken some of the sweats are made of cow leather. This bugs me as it's not hard to improve this. But hey ho. They "are" factory hats. And these well established companies seem not to share the same passion as me. ( sigh )

I hope I wasn't out of line.

Thanks again!
Another good place is oxfam.uk for U.K. vintage hats, and marylebone road.

Gumbo.

 

[James007]

has any one heard of this hat ? richman brothers black stinky and does any one have a photo of one?

 

[zetwal]

has any one heard of this hat ? richman brothers black stinky and does any one have a photo of one?

A black stinky ... ?!

 

[Yeps]

A black stinky ... ?!

It is made of ferret fur.