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[Frunobulax]

Thanks for the clarification. It appears that this year's Fall 2017 catalog differentiates between:
Excellent
Royal Deluxe
Royal
And they then have a "Medalist Collection"

Which pretty much corresponds with your listing from High to Low, with Excellent being the top of the list in quality.
So Stratoliner is a hat style, not a quality designation? Of which they list 2 different models.
A priemer Stratolliner (open crown) Royal Deluxe, and a Stratoliner (special edition) Royal Quality.

I would like to buy the best that they make. So I will look at the Excellent collection regardless of model. However, I wonder how much of this is simply marketing, and how much is really related to the quality of the hat?

Thank you for your patience in dealing with a complete newbie. I am ready to upgrade from an Akubra. And of course there is always the lore of owning a Stetson.

Thank you.

Look at the catalog again (page 9, to be specific). There are three quality designations: Royal, Royal Deluxe, and Excellent. The "Premier" designation is limited to the open crown Stratoliners and Whippets. I don't know that i'd call Premier a quality designation as much as a subset of the Royal Deluxe designation. Stratoliner, like Whippet and Open Road, are model names, or styles, not quality designations. They have offered Excellent Quality open crown Stratoliners, but took them out of the catalog this year.

You have the hat you ordered: a Premier Stratoliner in the Royal Deluxe Quality.

Historically, Stetson has been all over the map in quality designations. Way back in the 20s and 30s, "Standard" Quality was the highest designation. They've also, over the years, offered "Sovereign" and other designations. However, Royal and Royal Deluxe have been around for quite some time. You can find vintage Stratoliners in both Royal and Royal Deluxe Quality.

"Medalist" is a product line, for the most part. The Medalist name has been around since at least the 40s, maybe longer.

I suggest you take some time to review some of the Stetson threads on the board. There is a wealth of information there and, though nobody can pin down these quality designations exactly, it will give you a better feel for how they were marketed under these designations.

 

[M Hatman]

I just received a Stetson Premier Stratoliner. My issue is that the tag and sweat state that it's a Premier but the liner is for the lower quality Royal Deluxe. The box states it a Premier and a Royal DeLuxe?!? Any idea what's going on? I purchased it new from a reputable vender:

Above: the liner from my two previously purchased Stetson Premier Stratoliners.

Above: the liner from my new premier Stratoliner. The liner clearly states Royal DeLuxe.

The felt on the new hat does not feel as nice as the felt on my two other Premiers, but I'm not sure if that is because it is a different color or if it's an inferior quality felt. I was specifically avoiding the Royal DeLuxe In favor of the Premier and now I don't know what I have.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As Fruno said, the Royal, Royal Deluxe and Excellent are the felt quality designations. Premier is the designation for the 5 1/2 inch open crown (Whippet and Stratoliner) and in the Whippet's case besides being an open crown also has a 2 1/2 inch brim. I own I think four Premier Strats and some have the yellow welted liner and a couple have the "Royal Deluxe" liner.....same is true for my Stetsonians, mixed liners...........
AND YES, sometimes the felt varies a great deal from hat to hat and color especially seems to effect that, plus the lack of consistency of the modern Stetson felt in general. As I remember though my Silverbelly was real nice and not at all coarse....
Best,
M

 

[Redfokker]

As Fruno said, the Royal, Royal Deluxe and Excellent are the felt quality designations. Premier is the designation for the 5 1/2 inch open crown (Whippet and Stratoliner) and in the Whippet's case besides being an open crown also has a 2 1/2 inch brim. I own I think four Premier Strats and some have the yellow welted liner and a couple have the "Royal Deluxe" liner.....same is true for my Stetsonians, mixed liners...........
AND YES, sometimes the felt varies a great deal from hat to hat and color especially seems to effect that, plus the lack of consistency of the modern Stetson felt in general. As I remember though my Silverbelly was real nice and not at all coarse....
Best,
M

+1

 

[jlee562]

As long as we're arguing semantics, is say the premier designation is a modifer to the model. "Stratoliner" = pre-creased, royal quality vs "Premier Stratoliner" = open crown, Royal Deluxe.

But the Premier Strats are Royal Deluxe felt. Hatco hasn't been terribly consistent in their liners and sweats.

Yes, excellent quality felt is much nicer than Premier.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

As Fruno said, the Royal, Royal Deluxe and Excellent are the felt quality designations. Premier is the designation for the 5 1/2 inch open crown (Whippet and Stratoliner) and in the Whippet's case besides being an open crown also has a 2 1/2 inch brim. I own I think four Premier Strats and some have the yellow welted liner and a couple have the "Royal Deluxe" liner.....same is true for my Stetsonians, mixed liners...........
AND YES, sometimes the felt varies a great deal from hat to hat and color especially seems to effect that, plus the lack of consistency of the modern Stetson felt in general. As I remember though my Silverbelly was real nice and not at all coarse....
Best,
M

This makes me feel much better. Maybe I'll take another look at the hat. I've been burned by other modern Stetsons but I thought I had found an exception to the rule with these Premier Stratoliners.

I also remember reading old posts from @moontheloon where Anthony said his experiences were that the Royal DeLuxe hats were poor quality and that the Premier and Excellence were worth consideration. If the Premier is just he Royal DeLuxe sold open crown it's hard to explain the distinction in felt quality that Anthony mentions?

The solution is to hold these hats in your hands before buying. Labels and designations don't mean much, but five seconds of holding one tells most of the story.

 

[M Hatman]

This makes me feel much better. Maybe I'll take another look at the hat. I've been burned by other modern Stetsons but I thought I had found an exception to the rule with these Premier Stratoliners.

I also remember reading old posts from @moontheloon where Anthony said his experiences were that the Royal DeLuxe hats were poor quality and that the Premier and Excellence were worth consideration. If the Premier is just he Royal DeLuxe sold open crown it's hard to explain the distinction in felt quality that Anthony mentions?

The solution is to hold these hats in your hands before buying. Labels and designations don't mean much, but five seconds of holding one tells most of the story.

Yes, hold the hat feel the felt then judge. The main difference in Royal and Royal Deluxe is the felt weight, Royal Deluxe being twice as heavy (thick) as the Royal. Composition of the fur blend seems to run the gamut.....I have some very fine and soft Royal and seen and felt Royal Deluxe that is crap. The excellent on the other hand tends to be really nice and purports to be all beaver. Now even the Excellent runs in different weights, the standard is the same weight felt as the Royal Deluxe, just a MUCH nicer felt. It is also produced in what they refer to as a Royal weight Excellent, which is thinner like the standard Royal, but again in a MUCH nicer felt. I have hats in all those quality levels.
Again, the Premier is just part of a particular model designation in the Whippet and Stratoliner line as is the "Special" designation for both. Now both the Premiers are made in the Royal Deluxe which generally feels better that the Royal, and is a heavier weight. But then again, I have some awesome Royal quality that are nice and light and good for spring and fall.....I would designate the Royal Deluxe as a winter weight and nothing more....good hats can be had in all quality levels, you just need to have it in your hand to decide.......
Best,
M

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Look at the catalog again (page 9, to be specific). There are three quality designations: Royal, Royal Deluxe, and Excellent. The "Premier" designation is limited to the open crown Stratoliners and Whippets. I don't know that i'd call Premier a quality designation as much as a subset of the Royal Deluxe designation. Stratoliner, like Whippet and Open Road, are model names, or styles, not quality designations. They have offered Excellent Quality open crown Stratoliners, but took them out of the catalog this year.

You have the hat you ordered: a Premier Stratoliner in the Royal Deluxe Quality.

Historically, Stetson has been all over the map in quality designations. Way back in the 20s and 30s, "Standard" Quality was the highest designation. They've also, over the years, offered "Sovereign" and other designations. However, Royal and Royal Deluxe have been around for quite some time. You can find vintage Stratoliners in both Royal and Royal Deluxe Quality.

"Medalist" is a product line, for the most part. The Medalist name has been around since at least the 40s, maybe longer.

I suggest you take some time to review some of the Stetson threads on the board. There is a wealth of information there and, though nobody can pin down these quality designations exactly, it will give you a better feel for how they were marketed under these designations.

What threw me was that this new Premier was labeled differently from my two previous Premiers. Different label
On the box, different labeling in the liner. That with the initial evaluation of the felt as inferior made me suspect that the hat was of a different quality level. I'm also pretty sure that the the "Premier" designation did not only indicate that it was open crown; the hat was also a better quality. I'm not alone on this as several owners have remarked on the quality difference in the Premier. I no longer have access to previous years Hat-Co Stetson catalogs, but I seem to recall that they listed both the Premier and the Royal DeLuxe with open crowns and they were separate hats at different price points.

In the end, I'm not disappointed in the box or the liner. It was the feel of the felt that bummed me out. Maybe it's just the vagaries to be expected from modern Stetson with low quality control; however, I still suspect that the hat is different from my two other Stratoliners.

 

[M Hatman]

What threw me was that this new Premier was labeled differently from my two previous Premiers. Different label
On the box, different labeling in the liner. That with the initial evaluation of the felt as inferior made me suspect that the hat was of a different quality level. I'm also pretty sure that the the "Premier" designation did not only indicate that it was open crown; the hat was also a better quality. I'm not alone on this as several owners have remarked on the quality difference in the Premier. I no longer have access to previous years Hat-Co Stetson catalogs, but I seem to recall that they listed both the Premier and the Royal DeLuxe with open crowns and they were separate hats at different price points.

In the end, I'm not disappointed in the box or the liner. It was the feel of the felt that bummed me out. Maybe it's just the vagaries to be expected from modern Stetson with low quality control; however, I still suspect that the hat is different from my two other Stratoliners.

On the Stratoliner line in particular, the standard Strat and the "Special" Strat are each made in "Royal" quality only (ignoring the very limited offering of Excellent). The Premier Stratoliner is made in Royal Deluxe (only), so many perceive the Royal Deluxe as a better felt, though in reality it is simply a heavier felt. So on that line (the Strats) I can certainly see that the Premier being considered by many as a better quality due to the felt weight alone. Now on the Whippet line, all the models are the Royal Deluxe weight.....so......
and again, I have "Premiers" with the nice "Royal Deluxe" liners as well as the yellow welted liners.....I do think they are all "Premier" on the sweats....same for my Stetsonians with the liners (I have five). I also have ALL the model designations of the Strats (save the elusive Excellent).
M
PS...Did I say I really like the Stratoliners?!?!?!?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

On the Stratoliner line in particular, the standard Strat and the "Special" Strat are each made in "Royal" quality only (ignoring the very limited offering of Excellent). The Premier Stratoliner is made in Royal Deluxe (only), so many perceive the Royal Deluxe as a better felt, though in reality it is simply a heavier felt. So on that line (the Strats) I can certainly see that the Premier being considered by many as a better quality due to the felt weight alone. Now on the Whippet line, all the models are the Royal Deluxe weight.....so......
and again, I have "Premiers" with the nice "Royal Deluxe" liners as well as the yellow welted liners.....I do think they are all "Premier" on the sweats....same for my Stetsonians with the liners (I have five). I also have ALL the model designations of the Strats (save the elusive Excellent).
M
PS...Did I say I really like the Stratoliners?!?!?!?

And apparently Stetsonians too!

I'm limited in my exposure to the various modern Stratoliners so I'll take your word as gospel. I really appreciate your willingness to share; this is what makes the Lounge such a great place.

Maybe I'll try to make friends with my Silverbelly Stratoliner before I decide on sending it back.

 

[M Hatman]

And apparently Stetsonians too!

I'm limited in my exposure to the various modern Stratoliners so I'll take your word as gospel. I really appreciate your willingness to share; this is what makes the Lounge such a great place.

Maybe I'll try to make friends with my Silverbelly Stratoliner before I decide on sending it back.

Yes, pet it a little and see if it starts to purr (or asks for a carrot). I do know a little handling and brushing goes far, and they do not eat much.....nor do they need a litter box...but they DO require a good walk now and again!!!!!
Best,
M

 

[Frunobulax]

This makes me feel much better. Maybe I'll take another look at the hat. I've been burned by other modern Stetsons but I thought I had found an exception to the rule with these Premier Stratoliners.

I also remember reading old posts from @moontheloon where Anthony said his experiences were that the Royal DeLuxe hats were poor quality and that the Premier and Excellence were worth consideration. If the Premier is just he Royal DeLuxe sold open crown it's hard to explain the distinction in felt quality that Anthony mentions? .

I believe Anthony has cautioned against anything below Royal Deluxe (more specifically open crown) Stetsons. I would tend to agree. The Royal Quality precreased hats have no appeal to me either.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[Frunobulax]

What threw me was that this new Premier was labeled differently from my two previous Premiers. Different label
On the box, different labeling in the liner. That with the initial evaluation of the felt as inferior made me suspect that the hat was of a different quality level. I'm also pretty sure that the the "Premier" designation did not only indicate that it was open crown; the hat was also a better quality. I'm not alone on this as several owners have remarked on the quality difference in the Premier. I no longer have access to previous years Hat-Co Stetson catalogs, but I seem to recall that they listed both the Premier and the Royal DeLuxe with open crowns and they were separate hats at different price points.

In the end, I'm not disappointed in the box or the liner. It was the feel of the felt that bummed me out. Maybe it's just the vagaries to be expected from modern Stetson with low quality control; however, I still suspect that the hat is different from my two other Stratoliners.

The difference in labeling may be a difference in the year of manufacture too. While I haven't handled everything, I don't think there's anything too special about the Premier designation beyond marketing. I would need to double check, but I don't believe a non open crown Premier has been marketed. Older catalogs are located at the Hatco website.

I own four modern Stetsons. Two RDs (Stetsonian, Racine), one Excellent Strat, and a Sovereign Lamont. While I like all of them, my quest for new Stetsons has likely reached its conclusion.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[Frunobulax]

On the Stratoliner line in particular, the standard Strat and the "Special" Strat are each made in "Royal" quality only (ignoring the very limited offering of Excellent). The Premier Stratoliner is made in Royal Deluxe (only), so many perceive the Royal Deluxe as a better felt, though in reality it is simply a heavier felt. So on that line (the Strats) I can certainly see that the Premier being considered by many as a better quality due to the felt weight alone. Now on the Whippet line, all the models are the Royal Deluxe weight.....so......
and again, I have "Premiers" with the nice "Royal Deluxe" liners as well as the yellow welted liners.....I do think they are all "Premier" on the sweats....same for my Stetsonians with the liners (I have five). I also have ALL the model designations of the Strats (save the elusive Excellent).
M
PS...Did I say I really like the Stratoliners?!?!?!?

Five Stetsonians? Impressive. Nicest hat of the Deckard era, IMHO.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[jonesy86]

Yes, pet it a little and see if it starts to purr (or asks for a carrot). I do know a little handling and brushing goes far, and they do not eat much.....nor do they need a litter box...but they DO require a good walk now and again!!!!!
Best,
M

Hmmm. Hadn't thought about that. I'm allergic to cats, but not horses or dogs. So if it starts to purr, I will have to return it.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I believe Anthony has cautioned against anything below Royal Deluxe (more specifically open crown) Stetsons. I would tend to agree. The Royal Quality precreased hats have no appeal to me either.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

I just re-read his posts. Anthony was specific about liking the Premeir and advising to stay away from the Royal DeLuxe. Curious.

 

[M Hatman]

One other thought on the perception of quality sizing can greatly effect the feel of even the same quality felt. many of the standard factory creased (pressed) hats have considerably more sizing (stiffener) than others.....also most all the open crowns have a LOT less stiffener than their pressed counterparts.....giving the felt a softer hand and thus feeling of "higher" quality.

Five Stetsonians? Impressive. Nicest hat of the Deckard era, IMHO.
And YES, I really like the Stesonian ( I have Black, Grey "Carabou", Mink, and two in Tawny....still looking for that early issue in light grey)....and the Premier Strat, and the Grand Central too......it is a sickness....
best,
M

Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[M Hatman]

I just re-read his posts. Anthony was specific about liking the Premeir and advising to stay away from the Royal DeLuxe. Curious.

Was he referring to the whippet line? ALL the whippets (as are the Stetsonians) are Royal Deluxe (early on designated as Sovereign on the whippets)....some (many) of the pre-creased versions had a LOT of stiffener added.....made them quite costume like......with a lot of handling they will EVENTUALLY break in and feel MUCH better......I tend to mess about and re-crease all my pre-creased hats.....
I did get a really soft nice dark blue standard Royal Deluxe Whippet from the outlet that was quite wonderful.....almost too soft.....but I love it!!!!! Re-creased it of course......
Again, there is NO Premier felt quality designation...ALL the Premiers ARE Royal Deluxe (just a LOT less sizing).
M

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I just re-read his posts. Anthony was specific about liking the Premeir and advising to stay away from the Royal DeLuxe. Curious.

Was he referring to the whippet line? ALL the whippets (as are the Stetsonians) are Royal Deluxe (early on designated as Sovereign on the whippets)....some (many) of the pre-creased versions had a LOT of stiffener added.....made them quite costume like......with a lot of handling they will EVENTUALLY break in and feel MUCH better......I ten to mess about and re-crease all my pre-creased hats.....
I did get a really soft nice dark blue standard Royal Deluxe Whippet from the outlet that was quite wonderful.....almost too soft.....but I love it!!!!! Re-creased it of course......
M

First, Anthony is only human and I don't suppose to present him as an infallible authority. Here are two excerpts from his earlier posts:

#1
"I wish you had come here and done some research first... anything below the Premier is not worth buying in my opinion."


#2
"Jose said that no one that he spoke to at Stetson confirmed that any of the discontinuing of premier or excellent would be happening and no one he deals with at Stetson has heard of anything like that happening .

He also said that to their knowledge there is no trouble with premier hat bodies and that they will not be changing."


Me:

These posts (the sencond was Anthony relaying info he got from Stetson) implies that there is a Premier quality felt separate from the Royal DeLuxe. Maybe I'm reading into this?

Lastly: to correct a previous post, Anthony was specific about going with the Premier Stratoliner (or Excellent), but it was the standard "Royal" quality he was warning to stay away from. I don't see where the Royal DeLuxe was mentioned.

I'm thinking that I'll brush it, stroke it, and say lots of nice things about it (the power of positive thinking), and see if I can tame it. It is a great looking hat, it was just the hand that originally turned me off.

Carrots? All my hats are carnivores.

 

[ChristopherJay]

Hello! I’ve been a huge fan of the Fedora Lounge for a couple years and finally decided to join!

My question: where might I find a plastic Conformateur? I know they’re not nearly as precise as the real deal, but it would be so much better then my current situation. Thanks so much!

Christopher

 

[M Hatman]

First, Anthony is only human and I don't suppose to present him as an infallible authority. Here are two excerpts from his earlier posts:

#1
"I wish you had come here and done some research first... anything below the Premier is not worth buying in my opinion."


#2
"Jose said that no one that he spoke to at Stetson confirmed that any of the discontinuing of premier or excellent would be happening and no one he deals with at Stetson has heard of anything like that happening .

He also said that to their knowledge there is no trouble with premier hat bodies and that they will not be changing."


Me:

These posts (the sencond was Anthony relaying info he got from Stetson) implies that there is a Premier quality felt separate from the Royal DeLuxe. Maybe I'm reading into this?

Lastly: to correct a previous post, Anthony was specific about going with the Premier Stratoliner (or Excellent), but it was the standard "Royal" quality he was warning to stay away from. I don't see where the Royal DeLuxe was mentioned.

I'm thinking that I'll brush it, stroke it, and say lots of nice things about it (the power of positive thinking), and see if I can tame it. It is a great looking hat, it was just the hand that originally turned me off.

Carrots? All my hats are carnivores.

On the reference to the Strats, other than the Premier (which is Royal Deluxe weight) all are Royal and of course pre-creased and lower crown....(open Crown less than 5 inches).... so you know where Moon was coming from on that.
As for the Premier hat bodies...they would be different, though made from from the same Royal Deluxe weight felt, for one they have a much more generous crown and a LOT less stiffener and in the case of the Whippet a broader brim. So, bigger softer hat bodies.......different from the standard hat bodies.
Best,
M
PS Yes those European Hares do get along quite well with MEAT.....as do I.