Bob Roberts
I'll Lock Up
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Lean'n'mean
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From the photo it just looks like a wide brimmed, 3" I'd say, open crowned fedora.
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Michael R.
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Its Open Crown , about a 2 3/4" Brim , ... hmmm 5.5-5.75" Crown Open , it looks like to me . Top's been just flattened .
Michael R.
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I would say Buster Keaton , but ...
Pork pie hat
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A classic brown felt men's pork pie hat from the 1940s. Note that the "bow" in the back of the hat conceals a small button on a string which winds around the hat: in windy weather the button would be attached to the lapel of a jacket to keep the hat from blowing away.
A pork pie hat is one of three or four different styles of hat that have been popular in one context or another since the mid-19th century, all of which bear superficial resemblance to a culinary pork pie dish.[1]
Contents
1830–1865[edit]
The first hat to be called a pork pie was a hat worn primarily by American and English women beginning around 1830 and lasting through the American Civil War. It consisted of a small round hat with a narrow curled-up brim, a low flat or slightly domed crown with a crease running around the inside top edge, and usually with a ribbon or hatband fastened around the shoulder where the crown joined the brim.[2] It was often worn with a small feather or two attached to a bow on one side of the hat. Such hats might be made of any number of materials (straw, felt, cotton canvas covered in silk, etc.)—what made them "pork pies" was the shape and crease of the crown and the narrowness of the brim (sometimes called a "stingy brim" in reference to its brevity).
Buster Keaton and the 1920s[edit]
Actor Buster Keaton wearing one of his signature pork pie hats
The pork pie began to appear in Britain as a man's hat not long after the turn of the century in the fashion style of the man-about-town, but its resurgence in the United States in the 1920s is credited to the silent film actor Buster Keaton who wore them in many of his films.[3] The hats from his films were ones the actor made himself by converting fedoras and other hats into pork pies,[4] creating more than a thousand in his lifetime.[5] This kind of pork pie had a very flat top and similar short flat brim.
1930s and 1940s[edit]
Arguably the heyday of the pork pie hat occurred during the Great Depression. In this incarnation, the pork pie regained its snap brim and increased slightly in height. The dished crown of such hats became known among milliners as "telescopic crowns" or "tight telescopes" because when worn the top could be made to pop up slightly.[6] Furthermore, as stated in a newspaper clipping from the mid-1930s: "The true pork pie hat is so made that it cannot be worn successfully except when telescoped." The same clipping refers to the hat also as "the bi crowned".[7] Among famous wearers of the pork pie during this era are Frank Lloyd Wright, whose pork pie hat had a very wide brim and rather tall crown. Also known for his tendency to wear such a hat was saxophonist Lester Young, for whom the jazz standard "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" was written. In African American culture in the 1940s the pork pie—flashy, feathered, color-coordinated—became associated with the zoot suit. By 1944 the hat was even prevalent in New Guinea.[8]
Post 1950[edit]
After the end of World War II the pork pie's broad popularity declined somewhat, though as a result of the zoot suit connection it continued its association with African American music culture, particularly jazz, blues and ska. Lester Young, whose career as a jazz saxophonist spans from the mid 1920s to the late 1950s, regularly wore a pork pie hat during his performances, and after his death the composer Charles Mingus wrote an elegy for him titled "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat". Young's pork pie had a broader brim than seen in earlier styles but retained the definitive round, flat, creased crown.
In television between 1951 and 1955, Art Carney frequently wore one in his characterization of Ed Norton in The Honeymooners, and in Puerto Rico the actor Joaquín Monserrat, known as Pacheco, was the host of many children's 1950s TV shows and was known for his straw pork pie hat and bow tie—in this incarnation, the pork pie returned to its Buster Keaton style with rigidly flat brim and extremely low flat crown.
In the 1960s in Jamaica, the "rude boy" subculture popularized the hat and brought it back into style in the United Kingdom, thereby influencing its occasional appearance in the mod subculture.
The porkpie hat enjoyed a slight resurgence in exposure and popularity after Gene Hackman's character Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle wore one in the 1971 film The French Connection.[9] Doyle was based on real-life policeman Eddie Egan, who played the captain in the film, and his exploits. Egan was famous all his life for wearing a pork pie hat, and refused to surrender his hat to Gene Hackman to wear in the film. The producers were forced to obtain Hackman's hat elsewhere.[10] At about the same time, Robert De Niro wore a pork pie hat in the 1973 film Mean Streets (the same hat he wore when he auditioned for the film).[11]
Contemporary associations[edit]
Today the wearing of a pork pie hat retains some of its 1930s and 40s associations. Fashion writer Glenn O'Brien says, "the porkpie hat is the mark of the determined hipster, the kind of cat you might see hanging around a jazz club or a pool hall, maybe wearing a button-front leather jacket and pointy shoes. It's a Tom Waits, Johnny Thunders kind of hat. It has a narrower brim than a Fedora and a flat top with a circular indent. Usually the brim is worn up. It is often worn with a goatee, soul patch, and/or toothpick."[12] Bryan Cranston's character Walter White wears a pork pie hat in the AMC series Breaking Bad when he appears as his alter ego "Heisenberg" whose persona is associated with the hat.
Lean'n'mean
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 4,087
- Location
- Cloud-cuckoo-land
I believe your photo Momus, was taken on the set of 'The Man Who Fell To Earth' ......in which case this may be the same hat, different lighting, different hat.....still a fedora though.
Bob Roberts
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 11,201
- Location
- milford ct
"Too much info..."I would say Buster Keaton , but ...
Pork pie hat
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A classic brown felt men's pork pie hat from the 1940s. Note that the "bow" in the back of the hat conceals a small button on a string which winds around the hat: in windy weather the button would be attached to the lapel of a jacket to keep the hat from blowing away.
A pork pie hat is one of three or four different styles of hat that have been popular in one context or another since the mid-19th century, all of which bear superficial resemblance to a culinary pork pie dish.[1]
Contents
1830–1865[edit]
The first hat to be called a pork pie was a hat worn primarily by American and English women beginning around 1830 and lasting through the American Civil War. It consisted of a small round hat with a narrow curled-up brim, a low flat or slightly domed crown with a crease running around the inside top edge, and usually with a ribbon or hatband fastened around the shoulder where the crown joined the brim.[2] It was often worn with a small feather or two attached to a bow on one side of the hat. Such hats might be made of any number of materials (straw, felt, cotton canvas covered in silk, etc.)—what made them "pork pies" was the shape and crease of the crown and the narrowness of the brim (sometimes called a "stingy brim" in reference to its brevity).
Buster Keaton and the 1920s[edit]
Actor Buster Keaton wearing one of his signature pork pie hats
The pork pie began to appear in Britain as a man's hat not long after the turn of the century in the fashion style of the man-about-town, but its resurgence in the United States in the 1920s is credited to the silent film actor Buster Keaton who wore them in many of his films.[3] The hats from his films were ones the actor made himself by converting fedoras and other hats into pork pies,[4] creating more than a thousand in his lifetime.[5] This kind of pork pie had a very flat top and similar short flat brim.
1930s and 1940s[edit]
Arguably the heyday of the pork pie hat occurred during the Great Depression. In this incarnation, the pork pie regained its snap brim and increased slightly in height. The dished crown of such hats became known among milliners as "telescopic crowns" or "tight telescopes" because when worn the top could be made to pop up slightly.[6] Furthermore, as stated in a newspaper clipping from the mid-1930s: "The true pork pie hat is so made that it cannot be worn successfully except when telescoped." The same clipping refers to the hat also as "the bi crowned".[7] Among famous wearers of the pork pie during this era are Frank Lloyd Wright, whose pork pie hat had a very wide brim and rather tall crown. Also known for his tendency to wear such a hat was saxophonist Lester Young, for whom the jazz standard "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" was written. In African American culture in the 1940s the pork pie—flashy, feathered, color-coordinated—became associated with the zoot suit. By 1944 the hat was even prevalent in New Guinea.[8]
Post 1950[edit]
After the end of World War II the pork pie's broad popularity declined somewhat, though as a result of the zoot suit connection it continued its association with African American music culture, particularly jazz, blues and ska. Lester Young, whose career as a jazz saxophonist spans from the mid 1920s to the late 1950s, regularly wore a pork pie hat during his performances, and after his death the composer Charles Mingus wrote an elegy for him titled "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat". Young's pork pie had a broader brim than seen in earlier styles but retained the definitive round, flat, creased crown.
In television between 1951 and 1955, Art Carney frequently wore one in his characterization of Ed Norton in The Honeymooners, and in Puerto Rico the actor Joaquín Monserrat, known as Pacheco, was the host of many children's 1950s TV shows and was known for his straw pork pie hat and bow tie—in this incarnation, the pork pie returned to its Buster Keaton style with rigidly flat brim and extremely low flat crown.
In the 1960s in Jamaica, the "rude boy" subculture popularized the hat and brought it back into style in the United Kingdom, thereby influencing its occasional appearance in the mod subculture.
The porkpie hat enjoyed a slight resurgence in exposure and popularity after Gene Hackman's character Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle wore one in the 1971 film The French Connection.[9] Doyle was based on real-life policeman Eddie Egan, who played the captain in the film, and his exploits. Egan was famous all his life for wearing a pork pie hat, and refused to surrender his hat to Gene Hackman to wear in the film. The producers were forced to obtain Hackman's hat elsewhere.[10] At about the same time, Robert De Niro wore a pork pie hat in the 1973 film Mean Streets (the same hat he wore when he auditioned for the film).[11]
Contemporary associations[edit]
Today the wearing of a pork pie hat retains some of its 1930s and 40s associations. Fashion writer Glenn O'Brien says, "the porkpie hat is the mark of the determined hipster, the kind of cat you might see hanging around a jazz club or a pool hall, maybe wearing a button-front leather jacket and pointy shoes. It's a Tom Waits, Johnny Thunders kind of hat. It has a narrower brim than a Fedora and a flat top with a circular indent. Usually the brim is worn up. It is often worn with a goatee, soul patch, and/or toothpick."[12] Bryan Cranston's character Walter White wears a pork pie hat in the AMC series Breaking Bad when he appears as his alter ego "Heisenberg" whose persona is associated with the hat.
emigran
Practically Family
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Thanks Mike... You da Man...!!!
My only reference has been Jazz and cool-cats...(totally forgot the Zoot Suit with the wide brim) thanks for the history.
BTW I just acquired a VS porkpie in Coyote with a stellar dark green ribbon... determined to get all my 8 Customs up here on FL ...
I'm still not comfortable seeing my visage with this silhouette. I usually wear my hat canted to the right as in my avatar.... and of course brim snapped down... I watched Donnie Brasco and followed Al Pacino with his PP sitting slightly back on his head... Dealing with wearin my PP not having it wear me...!!!
My only reference has been Jazz and cool-cats...(totally forgot the Zoot Suit with the wide brim) thanks for the history.
BTW I just acquired a VS porkpie in Coyote with a stellar dark green ribbon... determined to get all my 8 Customs up here on FL ...
I'm still not comfortable seeing my visage with this silhouette. I usually wear my hat canted to the right as in my avatar.... and of course brim snapped down... I watched Donnie Brasco and followed Al Pacino with his PP sitting slightly back on his head... Dealing with wearin my PP not having it wear me...!!!
- Messages
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Bob Roberts' first answer (the photo) was the best, most succinct!
- Messages
- 19,470
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- Funkytown, USA
From an online article when I searched for "the man who fell to earth wardrobe:"
IRW: And who’s idea was the fedora and where did it come from? It cast such an enigmatic shadow over Mr Newton.
MR: The black fedora? I can’t remember if that was David’s own. The grey one he wore at the end of the film belonged to Claudia Jennings, who had a small part as Bernie Casey’s wife. She was very beautiful and was the girlfriend of Si Litvinoff [executive producer], but not for long.
Yeah, I know, not very helpful...
Bob Roberts
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 11,201
- Location
- milford ct
Less is more. Thx Charlie.
- Messages
- 10,607
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- Boston area
WAZE correctly routed me through Orange on Sunday, Bob. Apparently not near your shop, but when I do get there, the feathers will fly!!
And to all who use roads to get anywhere, WAZE is the absolute BEST guidance system in the world, by far. By FAR!! Free download app, and off you go. Our weekly journey to VT used to average 4-1/2 to 5 hours, primarily due to traffic. Using WAZE now, we average 3-1/2 to 4 hours. Try it!!
And to all who use roads to get anywhere, WAZE is the absolute BEST guidance system in the world, by far. By FAR!! Free download app, and off you go. Our weekly journey to VT used to average 4-1/2 to 5 hours, primarily due to traffic. Using WAZE now, we average 3-1/2 to 4 hours. Try it!!
emigran
Practically Family
- Messages
- 719
- Location
- USA NEW JERSEY
Bob Roberts
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 11,201
- Location
- milford ct
Wlcm. Always thinkin abt food.
- Messages
- 10,607
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- Boston area
I'm not sure, but that looks like the block Art F. uses for his Porkpie lids... maybe.
Bob Roberts
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 11,201
- Location
- milford ct
Lol. Watch for greez stains.
- Messages
- 19,470
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- Funkytown, USA
Michael R.
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
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I like more , I'm a big eater except I eat only once a day (against Drs orders
) . If I ask I want INFO . Trying to be helpful . The Photo Bob posted looked good though , like a Giant Sausage Ball Pie . YUM YUM ! ... actually sometimes less is less and more is more .
Michael R.
Call Me a Cab
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You're Welcome ! I saw that Hat , like the Coyote . If I was describing a Pork Pie , I'd say a Telescope , normally low , with a very tight crease around the rim of the flat top , but I figured you wanted history . yada yada yada , but I always think of Buster Keaton .
Bob Roberts
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 11,201
- Location
- milford ct
Lol. U bet they will Charlie. Actually Orange is so small yer only abt 5 min from anywhere in town. Ok, maybe 10 with traffic.
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Yeah, that's the "custom" you're paying extra for.