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[pairrothead01]

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[belfastboy]

I have a few of each of Homburgs and Lord's hats. The differences are a matter of opinion IMHO. They are very similar with the most noticeable difference is Lord's hats have the pinch whereas Homburgs usually are not pinched although you can see Homburgs with pinches as well. Secondly Homburgs have the brim binding while a true Lord's hat has the brim curl but usually not the binding. I think in general Lord's hats are more casual while Homburgs tend to be a more formal look. Although I love wearing my Homburg with a leather jacket and jeans.

 

[Zombie_61]

...2. What is the general style differences of a Derby and Bowler?...

There are none, as they're different names for the same hat. In the U.K. it's a "bowler" and in the U.S. it's a "derby".

 

[deadlyhandsome]

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What the others said. To me, the lords hat is he same as a homburg but without the bound brim. That’s the only difference to me. There is a thread here on the lords hat too.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-lords-hat.24991/page-3



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[jlee562]

There are none, as they're different names for the same hat. In the U.K. it's a "bowler" and in the U.S. it's a "derby".

and to further confuse, "coke" is also used interchangeably with bowler in the UK.

 

[pairrothead01]

Thank you.....I'LL finish the season tonight....and will look more closely to those stated details.


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[Hat and Rehat]

Hi everyone,

This will serve as my intro and a question or two.

After stumbling across this excellent forum I decided to try to make a hat for my blackpowder hobby. Just for practice and curiosity, I ordered a long hair fur felt hat body from Fepsa and now I’m left with questions( I know I jumped into the deep end). I can’t seem to find any info on hat making with long hair bodies.

I’ve seen videos and read some great articles on hat making with smooth felt, so can someone tell me the differences I should consider with long hair? Do I treat the process of blocking and ironing the same? Is there a special treatment to lay the hair down and give it a sheen or does ironing do that? Can the brim be cut and brushed back to a natural looking edge or must it be edged with ribbon?

Also, I don’t know the fur content of this hat but it’s advertised as 100% fur. It’s pretty flimsy as of now. Will blocking and ironing stiffen the hat or should I consider some “stiffener” product?

Below is a pic of my hat body, a top hat with the finish I’m after and Manuel Lisa’s hat which I like the shape of.

Thank you all for your feedback!


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Longer hair hats that I own all seem to be softer in dress hat weight, from velour on. I have a fuzzy Beaver Brand Western though, with a cattleman crease and rolled brim, which is pretty firm.
Stiffening it must have been tricky. I have a "reverse conversion" project that I started for my wife on the back burner because she didn't like it. I had a 6 3/4 Stetson Sovereign from the 60s that I was willing to expiriment on. An alpine styled velour with a stingy underwelt brim and a rope hatband. It had a center crease and very minor side dents. I decided to make it into a small brimmed "Western", seeing it as a ladies hat. I took out the welt, ironed the brim flat to remove the flange, which didnt quite do it, so I cut a hole in a baboo cutting board, put a hat stretcher in it as a band block, ironed the heck out of it, then put a bag of powdered drywall compound that I first warmed in the oven on it overnight.
That did the trick. But it was still a very soft hat. Even with serious steam I couldn't get it to hold the "Gus" type crease I was trying for.
Out came the shellac. First I tried the Zinzer aerosol, but it just dried on the outer soft velour fuzziness without penetrating into the felt. I managed to work a little bit in with an alcohol soaked rag, but not enough. Velours are somewhat water repellent, and solvent repellent as well. They just don't really wick fluids into themselves very willingly, which also means very evenly, which bit me when I got serious about applying shellac out of a quart can with a sponge. I used a 50/50 shellac alcohol mix, but even that tended to stop on the outer surface of the velour. I got very uneven results.
Desperate, I first sponged the inside of the crown with straight denatured alcohol, hoping this would eliminate the surface tension so the felt would be "thirsty" and absorb shellac. It did work, in that shellac did penetrate deeper into the hat body. Unfortunately, it still didnt do so very evenly. The hat takes a crease and looks pretty good, but if you handle the crown and squeeze it, you find some areas noticably stiffened, but others still very soft. I plan to try to even it out before I put a lining back in it.
Maybe shellac was the wrong stiffener. Everything you see about using it includes warnings about not using too much.
Gum Tragacanth, on the other had, is applied by working and slapping it into the felt while the hat is inside out on a block.
I have yet to try it on anything with hair, but think you should probably try that before shellac.

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[Hat and Rehat]

If it is a really good deal I usually take the chance. But it has to be a REALLY GOOD deal. If it doesn't work out I list it in the Fedora Lounge classifieds and move it on. That's the reason it has to be a good deal - so I'm not out anything. It also lets my wife see me selling hats and therefore reducing my overall count. It's a fantastic thing for her to see me selling hats even though it is only because it doesn't fit. That's the silver lining thing you hear people talk about.

I better do some of that. I tend to just rip the trimmings out, figuring I can reblock it to fit. I now have a backlog of such hats, because my acquisition and fabrication of blocks and flanges has not kept pace with my aquisition of hats in need of work.

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[Hat and Rehat]

I have. I’ve tried many things with many different hats, but most times they were undesirables that I didn’t mind experimenting on. That’s probably too long of a stretch and the sewn seam will bust apart. Plus, even if The stretch is a success, that much change will cause too much taper in most fedoras...if that’s an issue for you. It is with me. But hey, some hats can take a long stretch and some can’t take much at all...Even in the taper, if the hat has a very square or reverse taper built into it. It’s a crap shoot unless you hold the hat in hand for a study. Hope this helps you, Mr. Two Hats.

I've also blown out the back seam in sweats with the stretcher, which usually actually means that the old leather tears at the stitch line on one side or the other. Worse, I popped the reed out of a ferule once, then the lid wants to shrink even smaller! Live and learn. I won't do THAT again. I did that on an aluminum stretcher that enlarges the entire crown, but can't avoid also stretching out the reed area. Next time I'll stretch the band area with a wooden stretcher, then come back with the full crown one to erase the new taper.
Kevin at JJ Hats suggests stretching at the top of the ribbon. If you have a larger grossgrain, the taper effect is visually lessened by the horizontal line.
Condition your leather first, which will make it more flexible. If it's too far gone though, it will also soften it up for tearing.
Go slow, and don't be afraid to leave the hat on your stretcher for a couple days between turns of the screw.

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[Hat and Rehat]

Swish....that is the word I was trying to remember! Swish not scrunch!

Scrunching can make the fabric separate in strips.

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[Hat and Rehat]

Wondering if anyone has come across information on ‘The Helbing Hat Co’ from San Francisco. Most of the information I found led to the owner, but it seemed it was more of a dry goods store than a hat maker. Trying to decide if I should acquire this seemingly early 1900’s western.

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I would pull the trigger if it will fit you.
(Oh wait, I might pull the trigger even if I knew it would never fit me.)
Did you see more inside pictures? Leather can help nail down dating to a degree.

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[J Williams]

I would pull the trigger if it will fit you.
(Oh wait, I might pull the trigger even if I knew it would never fit me.)
Did you see more inside pictures? Leather can help nail down dating to a degree.

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Yeah the trouble is the sellers bottom line is $600


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[M Hatman]

Yeah the trouble is the sellers bottom line is $600Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OUCH!!!!!!!

 

[Hat and Rehat]

Yeah the trouble is the sellers bottom line is $600


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Too rich for my blood.

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[Dr.John]

I am a bit new to regularly wearing hats, but have taken a liking to the style. I have a handful that have been given to me over the years, all with a unique story behind them. My most recent acquisition was my grandfather's. He purchased it in the late 40's from Caplan's Men's store in Alexandria, La (take note of the mirror behind me). It is a cream colored Borsalino. I love the way it feels and it makes me look good. Given that it is not in my budget to buy comparable hats, can you make some recommendations for similarly styled and quality hats that is more affordable? Or where I should look to find preowned hats that may need some reconditioning?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I am a bit new to regularly wearing hats, but have taken a liking to the style. I have a handful that have been given to me over the years, all with a unique story behind them. My most recent acquisition was my grandfather's. He purchased it in the late 40's from a store in Alexandria, La. It is a cream colored Borsalino. I love the way it feels and it makes me look good. Given that it is not in my budget to buy comparable hats, can you make some recommendations for similarly styled and quality hats that is more affordable? Or where I should look to find preowned hats that may need some reconditioning?

Without seeing your Borsalino it’s hard to say where you should look for similar styles. The vintage market has the best hats, but lots of potential pitfalls too. Until you get a good eye for vintage it can be tough to navigate.

If you want new, take a look at Akubra and the open crown offerings from Stetson. I’m a big supporter of Agnoulita when looking for a nice hat without spending a lot.


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[Dr.John]

Without seeing your Borsalino it’s hard to say where you should look for similar styles. The vintage market has the best hats, but lots of potential pitfalls too. Until you get a good eye for vintage it can be tough to navigate.

If you want new, take a look at Akubra and the open crown offerings from Stetson. I’m a big supporter of Agnoulita when looking for a nice hat without spending a lot.


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I posted a picture. It is a flip brim fedora. My grandfather's initials are impressed in the sweat band as is the store name from which it was purchased. We paid them a visit on the way to visit family. The store owner, David Caplan, is fifth generation owner. He estimated the hat was purchased from them in 1948, which would be about right when my grandparents moved to the area. His grandfather would have sold it to my grandfather. His first words were, "you have passed the time for returns." Follow by, "wow, tell me the story about how you got this hat."

 

[jlee562]

I posted a picture. It is a flip brim fedora. My grandfather's initials are impressed in the sweat band as is the store name from which it was purchased. We paid them a visit on the way to visit family. The store owner, David Caplan, is fifth generation owner. He estimated the hat was purchased from them in 1948, which would be about right when my grandparents moved to the area. His grandfather would have sold it to my grandfather. His first words were, "you have passed the time for returns." Follow by, "wow, tell me the story about how you got this hat."

What's the ribbon treatment like on your Borso? Thin ribbon? From that angle it looks like it could be an Alessandria model, which is the Italian cousin of the Open Road.

The Akubra Campdraft was originally produced under Stetson license as the Open Road. They kept making the same hat but changed the name after the license agreement lapsed. It's still a popular open crown hat. At the moment, with the exchange rate today, they're running $112 at Hats Direct. To be sure the felt will not be nearly as nice as a late 40's Borso, but to the average passerby, the differences are somewhat negligible.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I posted a picture. It is a flip brim fedora. My grandfather's initials are impressed in the sweat band as is the store name from which it was purchased. We paid them a visit on the way to visit family. The store owner, David Caplan, is fifth generation owner. He estimated the hat was purchased from them in 1948, which would be about right when my grandparents moved to the area. His grandfather would have sold it to my grandfather. His first words were, "you have passed the time for returns." Follow by, "wow, tell me the story about how you got this hat."

I second the vote for an Akubra Campdraft if you like the thin ribbon western/city look.


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[Hat and Rehat]

You really need to check out the What Hat Are You Wearing Today thread, John.
You will see masters preening their hats from every direction.