Ask a Question, Get An Answer About Outerwear

[torfjord]

I'm glad to see this study. I've been listening to nonsense about people being shorter in the 50's, hence all the old jackets are this short, all over the internet and I knew it's just that, nonsense. People might become an inch taller in about one thousand years but for now, we're good with whatever length the jackets used to be during the 50's.

Yeah, agree completely. Nice confirmation of my anecdotal suspicion that it’s generally not the height difference that causes problems for some people with the length of vintage jackets but rather the rise of the pants.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I thought the jackets worn back in the days were relatively short. I used these photos for inspiration when I had Field Leathers make a half belt for me. I wanted my jacket to have this thirties look.
View attachment 304609

About the average height. I thought that men today are a lot taller than they were back in the thirties. Turns out that is not the case.

According to the most recent study I could find (2018) the average height of an American male is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters), which is exactly the same average height as back in 1931.

View attachment 304611

Long story short.

Go short if you like the 30's look. Go longer if you like a more contemporary look (which compliments low rise pants).

Top right photo looks long- just as I wrote. But longer rise is partly the reason.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Unless you're Dutch

Dutch men were definitively shorter in the 30's and 50's.
View attachment 304614

I'm of Dutch background. Quick look on line (Scientific American) says people have grown 4 inches in the past 150 years but not so much in America, mainly throughout Europe and Asia. You learn something every day.


Makes no difference to my point if people are no taller today. If the average height for an American male was and is still 5ft 9, then the jackets are still longish at 25.5 inches back height. But I will look into this more as there are probably many studies on this subject.

 

[Marc mndt]

Think I heard somewhere that the original Hercules was a longer jacket than most conventional half-belts of that era.

I found this copy from the 1937 Sears catalogue. For most of these jackets the standard length is 25.5 (apart from the grizzly which is 25' and the one with knits which is 27')

 

[Seb Lucas]

Interesting. They don't look short but the illustrations are limited and the pants are... missing.

 

[red devil]

Unless you're Dutch

Dutch men were definitively shorter in the 30's and 50's.
View attachment 304614

I think most people feel shorter in the netherlands lol

 

[Mich486]

According to Wikipedia the Dutch are the tallest country in the world. Men’s height averages out at 184cm! Means there are quite a few guys standing at 2m tall. Wow... I’m a miserable 170cm... yeah I’m not Dutch

 

[Pandemic]

Takes me back to my first biostats class! People have grown taller significantly over the past 120 years (largely due to improvements in agricultural industrialization and nutrition). Japan is usually cited as an example of a quickly growing population in the 19th and 20th centuries.

The US is a little trickier, because of the various waves of migrants and changing demographics. Americans are currently shrinking, for example, but the latinx population is growing.

@HoosierDaddy is probably an inch taller than his grandfather, so would need that longer jacket.

Thanks, I! I always think that a cafe racer look better on a muscular guy

Thanks! I always think that a cafe racer look better on a muscular guy, not my case LOL

IMO, the CR style is best for tall slim builds. It’s also one of the few styles where heavier leather isn’t always a good choice.

 

[handymike]

I don't think a halfbelt should be any longer.
Standard length of the above Hercules was 25.5'. But extra long sizes were available too.

Keep in mind that back then the measurement was made from the top of the collar down to the hem. So a 25.5 inch back length is probably closer to 23.5 inches. Now we usually measure from the collar seam down- without the collar.
Pants were higher rise back then too, so your height and clothing preferences really play a big part too.
I am 5’10 and my sweet spot is 24.5 inches or so. 23.5” is too short, and 25.5 covers the top of my back pockets. To me visually, I like length to hit the seam point of jeans right above the pockets:

Some of the European ones were made to fit at waist, so they were even shorter, coming in closer to 21.5 inches. The American ones would look longer in comparison to those.

 

[Marc mndt]

Keep in mind that back then the measurement was made from the top of the collar down to the hem. So a 25.5 inch back length is probably closer to 23.5 inches. Now we usually measure from the collar seam down- without the collar.

Interesting. This puts things in a whole different perspective. How do we know how they used to measure back length back then?

 

[handymike]

I have measured an Original Hercules from this period. Also, I have been following eBay listings for this model for 8 years. They generally come in at 23.5”. I’ve found the long version that actually measured 25.5” only twice (one black/ one brown). @tmitchell59 has one, so we should ask him.

 

[Riu]

IMO, the CR style is best for tall slim builds. It’s also one of the few styles where heavier leather isn’t always a good choice.

I just saw your reply and I thought I'd ask why heavier leather isn't a good choice for a CR style?

 

[handymike]

I have had a few vintage ones, and my preference is for the lighter weight steerhide ones. I don’t like snug heavy jackets. Traditionally, the jackets from the late 40s and 50s were made of heavier hides. Certain modern companies tout their heavy leather, but I don’t see much of it historically except for that period and the 70s / 80s.

 

[Riu]

I'm still trying to figure out what my preference is. I'm going to have to try on different makers and skins definitely until I know which ones I like better. I like how cxl feels and looks, never had a steerhide, it's on the list.

 

[Marc mndt]

I have been using these for years without any troubles:

https://www.thehangerstore.co.uk/product/black-wooden-mens-jacket-hanger-45cm/

I'm trying to find something similar. The width of yours is 45. How much is the slope?

 

[Pandemic]

I just saw your reply and I thought I'd ask why heavier leather isn't a good choice for a CR style?

Purely a personal preference, but I agree with Mike that a good fitting CR should be very snug ... and that sort of fit looks better in a medium weight. Whereas as half belt looks better in a very thick hide. Cross-zips, for me, straddle the fence - either medium weight fitted or something heavier and roomier that looks like it belongs on a motorcycle.

 

[Pandemic]

I'm still trying to figure out what my preference is. I'm going to have to try on different makers and skins definitely until I know which ones I like better. I like how cxl feels and looks, never had a steerhide, it's on the list.

CXL (steer or horse) has sort of become the gold standard in jacket world over the past decade for good reason. There are so many colors and different weights. Some CXLs also have more pull-up than others - creating a sort of distressed look after a few wears. It's hard to go wrong with Horween!

 

[handymike]

I don’t think CXL is the “gold standard” as much as Aero’s choice (for many reasons) and therefore we see a lot of it. There are many beautiful leathers tanned all over the world.

 

[red devil]

I don’t think CXL is the “gold standard” as much as Aero’s choice (for many reasons) and therefore we see a lot of it. There are many beautiful leathers tanned all over the world.

Exactly, once you reach top end leathers, it is mainly a question of preference

 

[Carlos840]

I'm trying to find something similar. The width of yours is 45. How much is the slope?

View attachment 304644

I don't actually an angle measuring device....
I have rullers, squares, compass, but no way to measure that!
Let me see if i find another way.