Article: "Should A Kindergartner Really Be Listening To Nicki Minaj?"

[Connery]

good swearing used to be an art.

Truer words were never spoken. I used to sit and watch/listen with both amazement and amusement at how each letter was emphasized, the inflection of each word, the facial expression and the look of satisfaction when the artist had presented his work for all to hear.:happy:

 

[Tomasso]

The average American of the Era would no more have gratuitously salted his or her public speech with it than they would have danced naked down Main Street at high noon.

It wasn't unusual to hear blue streaks in all-male environments like construction sites, steel mills, rail yards, locker rooms, etc......mostly (not always) a blue collar crowd but it didn't make its way into polite society to a great degree. Actually, I think that most women of the era wouldn't believe how much profanity was uttered just out of their earshot.

 

[rue]

A graph of the use of That Word in print over the past fifty years would provide an interesting documentation of the coarsening of our society.

And, you know, good swearing used to be an art. Some of the oaths my grandfather would use when some rump-sprung retread of a Red Sox relief pitcher gave a game away were truly magnificent, like a Rhapsody In Billingsgate. But what does someone say now? F this, F that, blah blah blah. Like so much of modern culture, modern swearing is just stupid, unimaginative, and pedestrian. If you can't light the air up like blue neon, why bother?

You know it's funny.... my grandfather would get mad at my mom if she used the word "bitchen" or hell and she rarely heard him curse. She never knew a thing about the way he was until my dad (newly married to my mom) went golfing with him for the first time and he heard how dirty he talked. She was shocked!

 

[rue]

It wasn't unusual to hear blue streaks in all-male environments like construction sites, steel mills, rail yards, locker rooms, etc......mostly (not always) a blue collar crowd but it didn't make its way into polite society to a great degree. Actually, I think that most women of the era wouldn't believe how much profanity was uttered just out of their earshot.

Except Ava.... I hear she had a heck of a mouth on her :eeek:

 

[Tomasso]

Except Ava.... I hear she had a heck of a mouth on her :eeek:

Oh yes, lots of potty mouths in the Arts if you can believe it. Combining a temperamental nature with a free spirit can get spicy.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Driving anywhere with my grandfather was an adventure in applied linguistics. He could turn five common curses into every part of speech imaginable, and would accent them with the most bizarre 19th Century Nova Scotian waterfront idioms imaginable, some of them making absolutely no sense but somehow always just fitting the situation. He'd string them together into whole paragraphs, pronounced without a pause or a breath, and fire them out the window at any driver who dared to cut him off -- even though that driver would be half a mile away by the time the paragraph was over.

And yet -- *never* That Word. Not once. I knew him eighteen years, and never once did he say That Word where I could hear him. He didn't need to.

Interestingly, the most popular swear words of his generation were various types of blasphemies, really sulphurous flaming-pits-of-hell stuff, mixed with a bit of scatology, and various approaches to the question of the legitimacy of his victim's parentage. The crude sexual stuff, which seems to make up the bulk of today's swearing, was a very minor tool in his kit, and was used more as final punctuation than as the main thread of the topic. I think that's an interesting reflection on the cultural shift that's happened in the years since he was in his prime.

 

[rue]

Driving anywhere with my grandfather was an adventure in applied linguistics. He could turn five common curses into every part of speech imaginable, and would accent them with the most bizarre 19th Century Nova Scotian waterfront idioms imaginable, some of them making absolutely no sense but somehow always just fitting the situation. He'd string them together into whole paragraphs, pronounced without a pause or a breath, and fire them out the window at any driver who dared to cut him off -- even though that driver would be half a mile away by the time the paragraph was over.

And yet -- *never* That Word. Not once. I knew him eighteen years, and never once did he say That Word where I could hear him. He didn't need to.

Interestingly, the most popular swear words of his generation were various types of blasphemies, really sulphurous flaming-pits-of-hell stuff, mixed with a bit of scatology, and various approaches to the question of the legitimacy of his victim's parentage. The crude sexual stuff, which seems to make up the bulk of today's swearing, was a very minor tool in his kit, and was used more as final punctuation than as the main thread of the topic. I think that's an interesting reflection on the cultural shift that's happened in the years since he was in his prime.

Off topic.... your descriptions of your life are always so good I can see it in my mind

On topic...

I think it made a dent when someone was cursed out that way and you stopped and thought about what they were saying and then felt bad. Now everyone just says F*** you, but it doesn't do anything. No one is shocked and they just move on.

 

[Pompidou]

Off topic.... your descriptions of your life are always so good I can see it in my mind

On topic...

I think it made a dent when someone was cursed out that way and you stopped and thought about what they were saying and then felt bad. Now everyone just says F*** you, but it doesn't do anything. No one is shocked and they just move on.

Good point. We need new, more powerful, obscenities. An old English professor spent a day talking about how we constantly weaken our vocabulary. There was a time when the words great, wonderful, awesome, amazing, etc - they were powerful words. It's just human nature to constantly weaken power-words with inappropriate use. Unfortunately, we haven't replaced the F-word, but if someone ever does, they'd be well appreciated. We need a new word that's too obscene for every day society. There is a C-word that some say comes close. I, personally, don't really swear. I feel funny trying. It was a much bigger deal when I was growing up than it was for any of my friends, and everyone has that one house peeve that ingrains in their brains. I have a hard time swearing without feeling strange. Ah well. Nobody's perfect.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Aside from the Pyramids of Gizeh, the Grand Canyon, the Northern Lights, and the feat of men walking on the moon, there's really nothing that's referred to as "Awesome!" that's truly worthy of the word. If the cheese danish you had for breakfast ranks as "Awesome!", you're aiming very low in your life.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Not sure I can agree to everything stated in the last few posts, but however, I myself look forward to having my 80 to 90 some odd years of life come...and to be sitting someplace in a rocking chair, and to have some great grand kids all around me while I am telling them stories of my "history"...and then to smile and with what every humor I have left in me, say, "oh my yes, it was wicked awesome".

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Oh yes, as to the matter of swear words, why is it that anyone should have to use them at all? In my thinking, a vocabulary that is strong enough, really has no need for swear words, and more so with a "quick wit"....

You get cut off in the store while shopping by some "hot dog" idiot pushing his shopping cart and he runs over your foot! You could swear at the moron, if you wanted to, but why not just state the reality of it? Example: I know you are blind and as ignorant as a bag of hammers, but did you really need to be so rude as to run over my foot"? Not one tid bit of swearing needed.

How to handle someone swearing at you? Example: "Oh now, really, was that something your Mother taught you, or did you get those words from your box of cracker jacks"? Again, no swear words needed.

I think the "art" of just having some ability to think and to not swear, is the "art" people should be thinking about "perfecting", and not driving along this road of life feeling the need to sound like a sewer more effectively.


To me, the thinking process of the topic here, should a child be allowed to be exposed to all this junk music, that has some rather filthy language, those standards should not just be directed to the child here. It should be directed to everyone. The acceptance that some filth is O.K. for an adult but not for a child, well, sort of stinks! It is a part of the problem. What is wrong with "no filth"?

 

[C-dot]

As for mainstream... We have Bill Haley's Shake Rattle and Roll with the classic line, "I'm like a one eyed cat, peeping in a seafood store." That's not about our furry 4 legged friends...

Oh yes, but that kind of innuendo is something only an adult would catch on to. Children would take that line literally (like they do with so many things) - And when taken literally, it's quite harmless. Taking Minaj's lyrics literally is a different story.

That's exactly right and I think what C-dot was getting at, is that although there were dirty things in songs it wasn't a constant barage of filthy words and the filth was usually hidden enough so that kids wouldn't know any better. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think mainstream music back then had a stream of F*** me F*** me F*** me .... for example [huh]

That is exactly what I was driving at!

We need a new word that's too obscene for every day society. There is a C-word that some say comes close.

I'll admit, I swear like a drunken sailor (I work in law, it's almost a requirement), but I don't use that word. That word is too obscene for everyday society - even for private use. I won't tolerate it being used around me.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I don't get the idea that we must seek more...better..or different expression to be progressively crude..rude...disrespectful...cutting...obscene...and offensive when there is an all out effort that we mustn't label...joke...offend certain groups...behavior...race..sex...etc. We must watch what we say..think..in order to not verbally assault..insult..those sensabilities....yet vulgarities...should be quite acceptable within any crowd or environment. If you object to that..too bad. Keep any objection to yourself because who are you to disapprove anyway..?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Mark Twain and The Art Of Swearing.

"Clemens's wife, Livy, was one of the few who did not appreciate her husband's swearing, and he tried to keep watch on his tongue when she was close by; but one day something irritated him, and, thinking his wife could not hear, he launched into a torrent of red-hot profanity. When he entered his wife's room a short time later, she coolly repeated word-for-word everything he had said.

"Livy," he replied, astounded yet amused, "did it sound like that?"

"Of course it did," she said, "only worse. I wanted you to hear just how it sounded."

"Livy, it would pain me to think that when I swear it sounds like that. You got the words right, Livy, but you don't know the tune."

 

[rue]

Good point. We need new, more powerful, obscenities.

Oh geez.... I hope that doesn't happen!

Aside from the Pyramids of Gizeh, the Grand Canyon, the Northern Lights, and the feat of men walking on the moon, there's really nothing that's referred to as "Awesome!" that's truly worthy of the word. If the cheese danish you had for breakfast ranks as "Awesome!", you're aiming very low in your life.

That's exactly how I feel about that word... not everything is "awesome".

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I don't get the idea that we must seek more...better..or different expression to be progressively crude..rude...disrespectful...cutting...obscene...and offensive when there is an all out effort that we mustn't label...joke...offend certain groups...behavior...race..sex...etc. We must watch what we say..think..in order to not verbally assault..insult..those sensabilities....yet vulgarities...should be quite acceptable within any crowd or environment. If you object to that..too bad. Keep any objection to yourself because who are you to disapprove anyway..?

Brings to mind the concepts of "Double Think", and "Double Speak" from George Orwell's 1984. It doesn't surprise me. It has been alleged that Orwell was likely poisoned because of his prophetic insight into what our society would become. More and more, as I see the world changing, I fear he was sounding a warning with that novel.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The Orwellian angle that I'm most reminded of is Newspeak -- a language which has been stripped of any ability to express any sort of nuance. When you look at how the use of language has degenerated over the last half-century, both in private and public discourse, at a time when we're more educated than ever, and so much of culture is divided simply between "cool" and "uncool", you have to wonder exactly what's going on.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

As a whole I'd say it's totally doubleplusungood.

That's exactly how I feel about that word... not everything is "awesome".

[video=youtube;SqqGFoASs9s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqqGFoASs9s[/video]
To explain the context of the scene. Judge Reinhold had just thrown some hot coffee on an armed robber.

 

[bunnyb.gal]

Except Ava.... I hear she had a heck of a mouth on her :eeek:

And Carole Lombard, of course. I've heard Ann Sheridan, too, liked to sail the 7 seas where swear words were concerned...

Not sure I can agree to everything stated in the last few posts, but however, I myself look forward to having my 80 to 90 some odd years of life come...and to be sitting someplace in a rocking chair, and to have some great grand kids all around me while I am telling them stories of my "history"...and then to smile and with what every humor I have left in me, say, "oh my yes, it was wicked awesome".

And yo, man, it was like, well sick! :eeek: I can honestly say that a tiny percentage of my decision to move back to the UK from the US was that I could no longer bear to hear the word "awesome" every 2 minutes..."ginormous" runs a close second in the annoyance race.

I'll admit, I swear like a drunken sailor (I work in law, it's almost a requirement), but I don't use that word. That word is too obscene for everyday society - even for private use. I won't tolerate it being used around me.

I must admit to having more than somewhat of a potty mouth, but it's more a reaction when I'm unable to do something right (My dance teacher has trained me into saying my "nice" swear word, "shinola" a fair amount of the time, but pretty often what it's meant to replace slips out...oops! Just channeling Miss Lombard. )

 

[rue]

As a whole I'd say it's totally doubleplusungood.



[video=youtube;SqqGFoASs9s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqqGFoASs9s[/video]
To explain the context of the scene. Judge Reinhold had just thrown some hot coffee on an armed robber.

Yes, it was indeed our generation (mostly in California) that started it .... oh the shame shakeshead


I do like that movie though