Art and the D.A.

[memphislawyer]

I remember reading that Art made a hat for a newly elected district attorney and yes, it looked sharp.

Reading the paper today, an Asst. District Attorney in Texas was shot at 9:00 a.m. yesterday. These guys are front and center on the prosecution of cases, along with police. The criminal justice process can take a bit of time to navigate and get someone from arrest to trial to sentencing to actually serving time, and during this interim, people can harbor resentments, hatred and evil in their hearts and let it fester and grow and act upon.

Reading the article, I immediately thought of the D.A. here and the hat Art made. I don't have a Fawcett myself but I do just sometimes pick up my Buckaroo hat to look at and think that Mike and Rocky handcrafted it for me, and the hat is now more personal. I hope our D.A. thinks the same of Art.

I worry that it will happen more on the civil side. There were deaths of attoneys in courtrooms over child custody and one big shooting, I think in California, at a deposition in a divorce. I have been assaulted by a spouse of a client who ostensibly came to the office where I was an associate to sign a settlement agreement after work (say 5:30ish) and picked them up, read them, and without saying anything, hit me in the face. I have been threatened and I have been followed to my car, both before and after the advent of cellphones (the former is much more scary, the latter, with a cellphone, I can take video as I am walking and tell someone I am uploading it as we speak to UTube - that gives them pause I would think.)

I know we honor those in the Military, but those in the fight against crime, and public servants in general, I'll slow down and thank you a little more heartily when we interact, or at least I pray that it will be in my heart to do so constantly.

 

[Atticus Finch]

I also read the news about the Texas ADA and couldn't help but notice that he was exactly my age. My heart goes out to his family and loved ones.

I've been doing this gig for over two decades. I've no clue how many felony cases I've prosecuted, but I have 459 pending today, so it must be thousands. Thankfully, I have never received a believable threat in all those years. I try to treat defendants with respect and I try not to become personally involved in their cases. Sometimes both of those things are tough to do, but I firmly believe this is how one stays sane and healthy in law enforcement. Even so, because of the kinds of people we deal with on a daily basis, what happened in Texas could happen to any of us at any time.

AF

 

[countryclubjoe]

The violence in our society is simply out of control. It seems some horrific act of violence is expected each day we turn on our TV.
I fear we are becoming calised to it all. We all want to believe we live in a civilized society however with the recent acts of violence on the rise.
It clearly does not look like we are so civilized.
Watch your back is becoming an everday term in our lives.
Stay safe one and all.

CCJ

 

[countryclubjoe]

I remember reading that Art made a hat for a newly elected district attorney and yes, it looked sharp.

Reading the paper today, an Asst. District Attorney in Texas was shot at 9:00 a.m. yesterday. These guys are front and center on the prosecution of cases, along with police. The criminal justice process can take a bit of time to navigate and get someone from arrest to trial to sentencing to actually serving time, and during this interim, people can harbor resentments, hatred and evil in their hearts and let it fester and grow and act upon.

Reading the article, I immediately thought of the D.A. here and the hat Art made. I don't have a Fawcett myself but I do just sometimes pick up my Buckaroo hat to look at and think that Mike and Rocky handcrafted it for me, and the hat is now more personal. I hope our D.A. thinks the same of Art.

I worry that it will happen more on the civil side. There were deaths of attoneys in courtrooms over child custody and one big shooting, I think in California, at a deposition in a divorce. I have been assaulted by a spouse of a client who ostensibly came to the office where I was an associate to sign a settlement agreement after work (say 5:30ish) and picked them up, read them, and without saying anything, hit me in the face. I have been threatened and I have been followed to my car, both before and after the advent of cellphones (the former is much more scary, the latter, with a cellphone, I can take video as I am walking and tell someone I am uploading it as we speak to UTube - that gives them pause I would think.)

I know we honor those in the Military, but those in the fight against crime, and public servants in general, I'll slow down and thank you a little more heartily when we interact, or at least I pray that it will be in my heart to do so constantly.

Hi Memphislawyer- Its getting ulgy. I saw yesterday that a fellow walked into a mediation hearing in regard to a civil issue and the fellow shot and killed an attorney and wounded a clerk, I belief it was Pheonix?

The violence is getting way out of hand.
I noticed that in some smaller towns in some civil courts not all the courts have a baliff inside the court room.
In Ohio recently in a restraining order case, the parties both entered the court room a bit early. Then they proceeded to engage in an all out and out brawl until a sheriff and the judge arrived in the room.
The smaller towns have less staff to combat the many major situations that can and are happening.
I would think that putting two people in the same room together two people that are only in the court room because of the restraining order should be being watch over with a sheriff or bailiff.? However if the courts are short staffed oh well bad things will happen.

Do you being an attorney have any ideas of just how we can decrease the violence that is becoming so rampant in our communities?
How did the violence get so out of control?
I await your reply and look forward to future posters to jump in.
Best regards
CCJ

 

[tonyb]

Not to diminish the seriousness of the shooting memphislawyer cited in his start to this thread, nor any shooting or other act of violence against any person, but I question if violence, overall, is actually on the increase. Some notable and horrific instances aside, my understanding is that violent crime, and crime in general, has been on a downward trend for a couple of decades now.

I'm confident that both memphislawyer and Atticus are better versed on this matter than I. So, counselors, what's the story?

 

[Gregg Axley]

It's a numbers game Tony.
Without going into great detail, I'll just say that the more categories you have, the easier it is to spread out the numbers (for certain crimes). And it also depends on how the crime is recorded. A torn up window or door isn't an "attempted break in" now it's "vandalism." Sounds better, but the criminal is still running around trying to get in your house or mine.
The same goes for violent crime. Depends on how it's categorized for the police report. High statistics makes the police chief and the mayor look bad. Spreading those numbers out tends to make their image better, until crime just gets out of control and everyone knows about it.
Then they can vow to take a "tougher stance" (and hope their term ends soon) or simply dismiss it as media sensationalism.
I live in a city where most of the violent crime isn't reported on tv, because they only have 30 minutes to give you the news!
In a smaller town you probably wouldn't see this happening, but in a larger town I think it happens quite a bit (violence towards anyone sworn to uphold the law).
Is it a result of tv, movies, and music? Yes.
Here is my take on the whole situation....
What you now have is a violent, entitlement mentality. If I don't like the price of something, I just take it because I "need" it. If you don't treat me the way I "think" you should treat me, I'll act out in a violent manner to show you who's boss. Some parts of society have become one based on threats and who seems to have the ability to back it up.
Sadly this is because of the way they were raised, not respecting authority, law, or anyone else.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Is it a result of tv, movies, and music? Yes.
The mentality brought about today by all 3 of those, can cause a disrespect for authority, even towards those trying to help you.

Around here it's two things. Alcohol and drugs. Drugs and alcohol. We get more than our share of violent crime here for the small town that we are -- lots of assaults, too many rapes, and the occasional murder -- and it's almost unheard of for one of them to not be connected with drugs, alcohol, or both. Drug use here is epidemic -- we're one of the major Northeastern hot spots for "bath salts," and that's a drug that by its very nature drives its users to random, uncontrollable violence. And there are even more violent drunks here than there are saltheads. I don't think it matters as much what they watch on TV as it does what they put into their bodies.

 

[Atticus Finch]

For what its worth. From the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

AF

 

[tonyb]

For what its worth. From the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

AF

Thanks for that, Atticus.

So, while overall rates are down, there are still segments and sub-segments of the population in which violence is still very much a way of life.

In many cities, Seattle among them, the cops have identified "hot spots" for shootings, mostly. The map, with dots placed where shootings have occurred, tell a sane person what routes to avoid in his daily travels, and where police department resources would be most effectively utilized. In Seattle there's only a couple three or four such hot spots. And each spot is really quite small -- like a city block or two at most. And yes, those are also areas where open-air drug peddling still takes place.

I've longed maintained that street level drug traffickers are the chumps of the industry. They're the ones likeliest to go to prison, or get shot. And they really don't make all that much money. If they and their customers didn't put it out there for anybody and everybody to see, and if they weren't posing such a clear threat to innocent passersby, etc., their careers would be considerably longer lived, as would themselves.

 

[Fletch]

And the only solutions we're allowed, right now, are:
a. More guns.
b. Fewer guns.

(N.B. I say this not to take a position on guns - the FL is not the place for that - but to make a statement about how powerful forces like media, lobbies, and elected officials shape and limit public debate.)

 

[tonyb]

To kinda echo Atticus, civilization itself depends on an accepted set of normative values.

While in a waiting room yesterday, I paged through a back issue of Time magazine that featured a short profile of the head of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, the guy who got the goods on Lance Armstrong. The USADA guy is a former criminal defense attorney. He was quoted saying that the experience gave him insight into why people break the rules. Many do so because they see it as the only way to win in this world, and, if a significant number of others are also breaking the rules, they are right.

This is why we have no choice but to fight crime and corruption. A magnitude 6.8 earthquake in the heavily populated Puget Sound area resulted in zero fatalities. A lesser quake in a place where the building inspectors are all on the take leaves thousands crushed under collapsed structures. If a kid mowing lawns and flipping burgers can't make a fraction of what his crack-peddling neighbor can get away with making, well, where's the incentive for honest enterprise? So we can't let the other kid get away with it.

And if the rules themselves are the problem, if they unfairly favor some people over others and therefore leave those others uninvested in the system, then we have to be honest about that and amend those rules.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Two shot dead at a firing range in TX. One of the victims was an ex seal and known sniper.
And the violence continues.

CCJ

 

[memphislawyer]

Countryclubjoe, I have no particular insight. I mean, who ever saw Newtown or the Denver theater tragedies coming down the pike. I'm not one to ruminate on causes for events, because let's face it, just as soon as we think at lawyers we have something figured out, something out of left field comes up and surprises us. We have had murder since Cain and Abel and still have not been able to figure out how to stop it.

My whole point was to think about the D.A. in our midst, having celebrated his first election to the post and what a 'calling' it is for some people. For a lawyer, many times, not particularly well-paying and always having detractors and second guessers. I just felt that he could wear Art's hat with pride, something made for him and not run-of-the-mill in the hat store.

 

[1961MJS]

... I mean, who ever saw Newtown or the Denver theater tragedies coming down the pike. I'm not one to ruminate on causes for events, because let's face it, just as soon as we think at lawyers we have something figured out, something out of left field comes up and surprises us. We have had murder since Cain and Abel and still have not been able to figure out how to stop it....

Hi

I agree. As a Safety Engineer, when you idiot proof something, somebody comes along and invents a better idiot.

later

 

[1961MJS]

...If a kid mowing lawns and flipping burgers can't make a fraction of what his crack-peddling neighbor can get away with making, well, where's the incentive for honest enterprise? So we can't let the other kid get away with it.

And if the rules themselves are the problem, if they unfairly favor some people over others and therefore leave those others uninvested in the system, then we have to be honest about that and amend those rules.

Hi Tony

Oddly enough, the book Freakonomic's third chapter is entitled "Why do drug dealers still live with their Moms?". First level dealers actually make less (according to the author) than the burger flipper, but like aspiring actors the dealers want to "move up" to where the money is. Most don't. Things aren't always what they seem.

Just my $0.02

 

[tonyb]

If Freakonomics is referring to those occasional pot peddlers in suburbia, I wouldn't dispute it one bit.

And, as I noted earlier, the street-level drug peddlers, the kids who are shooting at each other and getting arrested for selling illicit substances to anybody who comes along with a 20 dollar bill, are indeed the chumps of the industry. The money isn't all that good, but for many of those youngsters it's a good deal more than they've ever seen. And I fear that for a goodly percentage of those street-corner entrepreneurs, "straight" work might be hard to obtain, what with the lack of education, and a work history as short as the criminal history is long.

The successful long-term drug traffickers are the people we rarely hear about. They get away with it because they don't draw attention to themselves. And yes, they are the relatively few. But they do exist, and most of us would never suspect they are criminals.

 

[tonyb]

And ...

If things these days are at all like they were when I was in my late-teens/early-20s, the largest percentage of illegal drug peddlers are in it for a short period, and their involvement is mostly a way to subsidize their own use. You know, kid buys an ounce and sells three-quarters of it to his buddies to pay for the quarter he'll smoke up himself. It's a phase they go through, and most do indeed outgrow it.

 

[sheeplady]

And the only solutions we're allowed, right now, are:
a. More guns.
b. Fewer guns.

(N.B. I say this not to take a position on guns - the FL is not the place for that - but to make a statement about how powerful forces like media, lobbies, and elected officials shape and limit public debate.)

I'm going to add something to this, because in all this discussion of gun violence I have not heard anything regarding this.

If you own a gun, and anyone else can have access to it (particularly children), please be a responsible gun owner and keep your guns locked. If someone in your household is a threat to themselves or others (or you suspect them to be) please consider locking and keeping your guns at a range or some other location.

Also teach your children that guns are not toys. Up to a certain age, if they see a gun laying around in someone's house, they should not touch it and go tell a responsible adult that they trust. If another child picks it up, tell them to put it down and then leave immediately.

If you handle a gun, no matter how sure you are that it's empty, treat it as if it is loaded.

This will by far not stop all the violence in the world or even all the gun violence or accidents. I'm not proposing that this would have stopped any recent events (although I strongly believe that gun locks and a safes= or storing some of the guns at another location could have possibly prevented or decreased the violence at Sandy Hook). However, if it prevents one death, it would be totally worth it.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Now there is a Rambo type rumming the streets of Southern Cal, and killing people.
The killer is ex-police officer, ex navy. So far, three homicides. Hopefully this maniac will be stopped real soon.
Best regards.
CCJ