Are there any UK or European made stiff bowlers anymore?

[JackieMatra]

I'd also like to add a roan band - the corrected grain leather one in it does me no favours in the summertime. Marching season, you know!

Orangehaggis

You wear your Christy's bowler in the summer? Good grief! Mine is, by far, the heaviest hat that I have, and that includes really thick "western" (actually Australian and Argentine) hats with 4" and 5" wide brims and thick leather "stampede strings". I once went for a fairly brisk and lengthy walk in my bowler in just above freezing winter weather and wound up with one wet head of hair.

 

[besdor]

If Christys isnt making their bodies anymore, who is? Perhaps someone can buy direct from the manufacturer . I hope it isnt Tonak.....

 

[JackieMatra]

Might explain what has happened to Christy's over the last several years.
Their selection of fur felt hats sharply diminished while their prices steeply increased, and their felt color selection, which was 17 different colors for any fur felt hat other than their bowlers and toppers, dropped to at most 4 colors, for a very few hats, and to as few as one or two colors for most of their fur felt hats.
They also will no longer cut brims down for customers, nor, astonishingly, do they let you see samples of their fur felt colors, neither on their website, nor on request.

 

[mayserwegener]

I don't believe Christys' produced felt even back in the day (prior to WWII). When it comes to soft felts they don't have much of a past (see last Century). The English makers in general never understood the soft felt market of the late 1800s and onward and lost market share. TONAK was J. Hückel´s Söhne (amazing soft and stiff felt hats and major felt producers -> Worlds' finest Velour and Chamois finishes -> largest hat company in Europe) up to end of WWII. TONAK still makes fur felt in 100 hundreds of colors and many different finishes (specializing in Velour finishes). TONAK made great felt and finished hats (soft and stiff) into the 1950s. They were behind the Iron Curtain (built in mid to lower end market) which allowed them to later (1960s) undercut European suppliers (an exception -> FEPSA (a post WWII company 1960s) -> taking advantage of Portugal's lower labor costs and more of a high end producer today). Also other current day Euro felt suppliers (PolkaP (also formerly JHS) and ŠEŠIR) were behind the Iron Curtain.

I got this from the PolkaP site back in 2014. Modern day Christys' (when they were making hats in house) was sourcing felt (stumpen and capelines) from one or more of these companies.

Market

In Poland, the Company's production, which is engaged in distribution of Skoczowska Hat Factory Polkap SA does not have significant competition. It is true that there are a few small companies, which distribute products of foreign manufacturers, mainly from the Far East, but do not play the market essential.

On the European market for the production and sale of hats competition are:
1 Tonak as (Czech Republic) - manufacturer of semi-finished and finished hats of felt the hair and
wool. Exports about 90% of its production mainly to the USA, Germany, Russia and Japan.
It is the main competitor of the company with revenues of approximately 60 million zł per year. Production ranks at 150 thousand. hats, 400 thousand. intermediates (80% felt hair, 20% wool felt)
2 FEPS Feltros Portugueses (Portugal) - production at 175 thousand. semi-
annually. About 60% felt hair, 40% wool felt.
3 ISES (Spain) - production is estimated at about one hundred thousand. pieces of felt the hair semi-annually
4 Borsalino (Italy) - production is about 100 thousand. semi-finished pieces of felt
the hair per year. Borsalino is a very famous brand hats in the world.
5 Sesir (Slovenia) - production ranks at about 100 thousand. intermediates of felt
hair follicle year,
6 Tirabasso Serafino (Italy) - a large wholesaler wool felt hats with low quality, manufactured from semi-finished products of Chinese,
7 Other wholesalers Italian: SORBATTI, Fratelli Reali, Trendintex, Grazia Gori. Their sale is a total of approximately 2 million units per year. They offer Chinese semi-finished wool felt at low prices.

The market non-European competition for the company are:
1 Bollmann (USA) - manufacturer of semi-finished wool felt, the hair and straw hats. It also owns brands such as Bailey, Bain, Country Gentleman, Helen Kaminski, Kangol, Timberland. Estimated production is około1 million pieces of finished and semi-annually.
2 Yanapi (Ecuador) - manufacturer of semi-finished wool felt, production is about
150-200 thousand. units per year,
3 Manufacturers from China - offer low-quality semi-finished and hats at low prices.

 

[tommyK]

The vintage connoiseur's credo, which, while it may be true in general, is often utterly false in the particular.
It's most certainly not true that the quality of everything has gone down over the years, as many like to claim.
As an example, many members of this forum just love to endlessly iterate how the quality of the hats of various hatters, particularly Borsalino, have declined over the years, but I would defy anyone to try to distinguish my 6 year old Borsalino hat from my 60 year old Borsalino hat, other than by the liners and tags inside the hats.

You picked a remarkably bad choice to make your point. I too have modern and vintage Borsalinos.


I find the differences to be stark and many. Most importantly the felt is both thinner, denser and more finely pounced. The stitching on the ribbon is virtually inviseable and there is an hidden basting stitch holding the ribbon in place top and bottom. The Sweatband is of obvious better quality leather, deeper and much more finely sewn in both the reeding and the seem at the back. The liner is basted in, not glued. It is also sewn to the top of the hat. The attention to detail in the older hat is far superior and even a non hat person could tell the difference.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

How do the BS felt characteristics compare to old dress stiff felts? I think you know what I am getting at. Making stiff felts was a different manufacturing process.

Its not like that drumtight feel you get from a good vintage stiff felt bowler. But he's one of few hatmakers who's actually attempting to replicate a d'orsay curl. If the OP is deadset on modern bowlers and he's willing to pay the price for a Christie's, Black Sheep is by far the better option in terms of the custom fit and finishes you can get.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thank you for the clarification but the characteristic you mentioned is very important. It's what defined a stiff felt dress hat back in the day. Major props to BS but I just wanted to make this point clear (not to you).

 

[Orangehaggis]

Thank you for those leads. I've sent messages to the German and American firms posted earlier. I'll contact the Italian ones tonight. I'll report back when I've received replies. What I don't want is a soft bowler. Both of the bowlers I've owned have been hard and I don't think I'm careful enough to own a soft one.

Marching Season takes place here in North America from May until September, a very warm part of the year. Bowlers are traditional, although in Canada particularly, straw and cotton or linen hats is also very common. I once wore a straw hat in a parade in Londonderry, Northern Ireland, where it is much less common, and received constant comments from parade viewers along the two hour route. Not that I let public opinion sway me in my choice of attire.

Orangehaggis

 

[mayserwegener]

You might also be able to find a modern Christys' that was made in England. This place that I posted a while back in the thread appears to still have them.

http://www.tailsandtheunexpected.com/hats/bowler-hats/black-fur-felt-bowler.html

I would ask Wegener if it's model has similar stiffness as the made in England Christys'. Wegener list their stiff felt Melone (Bowler) under Reitsport (Equestrian) so I would think it's rigid.

This a Google Translation

Equestrian enthusiasts rely on R & M Wegener

2 August 2010

For riders guard protection and decoration is at the same time.

The traditional R & M Wegener Headwear has been producing for
the equestrian sport and is still the largest supplier of cylinders of the famous
horse race in the English Ascot. Over 100,000 headgear of the brand
Wegener one wears in equestrian sport today - this milestone celebrated R & M
Wegener Headwear for a month.
Whether Dressage, Western Riding, horse races, the family provides a high quality range of sports and society hats. The cylinder and melons of Wegener are made ​​by hand from rabbit and hare fur. Through an elaborate Imprägniervefahren the hat keeps its shape and provides its wearer optimum protection in any weather. Dressage riders love cylinder of Wegener as well as visitors from horse racing, where the man to the classic
wearing a cylinder cut. In addition, R & M Wegener Headwear Hats Western offers in different shapes and colors. They are manufactured using the highest quality materials for each customer according to his order and also individually by hand. Equestrian enthusiasts will find Wegener hats in stores and selected department stores. For a list of dealers can be found under "partner" in www.wegener.org

This place has two in stock (59, 61cm). Looks like it would be a special order if not in stock.

"Men melon of the brand Wegener: quality and fit. A very elegant piece for dressage riders. The cylinders are hand-crfted from the finest rabbit and hare fur. You are impregnated and dimensionally stable.
colors: gray or black (212.50 EUR)
Size: 54-62 (cm head circumference) NOTE: Because it is handmade in Wegener products, the delivery times are given generous. In addition, an exchange is not possible. We will notify you when you can expect delivery."

http://www.rakuten.de/produkt/rundm-wegener-gmbh-und-co-kg-herren-melone-182062466.html?desktop_view=enable&_ga=1.5562483.1126163756.1429736154

This place has two in stock (size 56,59cm) and on sale.

http://www.reitsport-voss.de/index.php?s=3&cat_id=447_Stalldecken&artikel=18192_+Melone+SP+169%2C50&ref=3

This place lists made to order.

"Product information "Wegener melon made of rabbit hair, impregnated"

Material (rabbit) hair
The melon is made ​​of pure Kaninhaar is particularly renowned for dressage riders, film and England fans as well as the re-enactment great popularity. The hat is taken from a solid form with a high-arched, about 4.5 mm wide rim and decorated with fine Seifenrips as well as the classic loop. The interior with fine satin lining and wide leather welding completes the melon from.

Material: 100% fur felt impregnated,

The melon is made to order, therefore, to expect a delivery time of approximately 10 days. "

http://www.seine-durchlaucht.de/shop/wegener-melone-aus-kanin-haar-impregniert

I would be interested in what you hear back from Wegener.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HORKA-Bowle...8&qid=1429757777&sr=1-8&keywords=horka+bowler


This company Horka also makes harder shell bowlers.

 

[Orangehaggis]

This forum hasn't let me down yet! I received my first reply; Mr. Jessee from Black Sheep Hat Works can indeed make the sort of hard bowler I'm looking for. They're currently priced at $310 in rabbit or $405 in beaver. The catch, however, is that he maintains a five month waiting list.

I'll post further findings when available.

Orangehaggis

 

[jlee562]

I've got a hat I've been meaning to send Bob for like a year probably.....you won't regret the decision. Bob is a stand up guy and will bend over backwards to get things right. If I may, I suggest the ostrich leather sweat....Here's a Stetson Homburg Bob recently rebuilt for me:

 

[Orangehaggis]

Why do you recommend the ostrich leather sweat band? I have, so far, found unfinished roan sheepskin to be far and away the most comfortable material.

Orangehaggis

 

[jlee562]

Oh the ostrich is quite comfortable. It's a nice, wide sweatband too.

 

[JoeyC]

I've got a hat I've been meaning to send Bob for like a year probably.....you won't regret the decision. Bob is a stand up guy and will bend over backwards to get things right. If I may, I suggest the ostrich leather sweat....Here's a Stetson Homburg Bob recently rebuilt for me:

That's a beautiful hat jlee, looks great on you.

 

[Orangehaggis]

An update: Cappelleria Melegari, http://www.cappelleriamelegari.com, have never made a stiff bowler but are willing to give it a go!

Orangehaggis

 

[Lean'n'mean]

I prefer to only place articles on my head that only I, myself, have sweated in!

People who wear bowlers don't sweat .................I have bought quite a few 'used' hats & none were sweat stained or smelly. I am quite odd though as I like the idea of something having had a life before it comes to me.
Replacing a sweatband is easy enough but I suspect there are other reasons why you wish to get a naw hat

 

[Orangehaggis]

After having received no replies, or discouraging replies from others, the willing attitude of the chap at Cappelleria Melegari is almost enough to make me want to buy one and see what happens. Perhaps I'll do this as an experiment...

I know others who are happy to buy second hand clothing and accessories, but the idea of wearing somebody else's clothes has never appealed to me.

Orangehaggis