Are there any UK or European made stiff bowlers anymore?

[Orangehaggis]

After a recent e-mail exchange with Christy's, I have learned that bowlers are no longer made in their Buckinghamshire factory, and are now merely inspected and trimmed there. Are there any British or European makers of hard bowler hats left?

I had planned to replace my English made Christy's as the sweatband is coming loose. I could find no domestic hat renovator capable of replacing this on a hard bowler hat, after, admittedly, a very cursory investigation.

I searched the website prior to posting this thread and I could find no recent posts on the subject.

Orangehaggis

 

[tommyK]

A lot of folks here are going to recommend vintage. Nice ones are out there if you're patient and the quality will far surpass most anything you'll find today.

 

[JackieMatra]

Christy's bowlers have had the same unique shape, possibly, for well over a century. They're also the only folks that I know of, all of whose fur felt bowlers were always hardened in the traditional manner. The original bowler hat was intended to offer head protection when riding a horse, after all. I really think that they're essentially irreplaceable. Lots of luck trying to find one used in nice condition in your size, particularly if you have a larger than 57cm size head. I certainly don't intend to part with mine, probably anytime ever.

A worn or damaged sweatband hardly seems to be anywhere near a sufficient reason for disgarding an otherwise fine hat. Surely someone somewhere should be able to replace the sweatband for you. If not, then you should be able to buy a replacement sweatband and have a go at replacing it yourself.

 

[mayserwegener]

After a recent e-mail exchange with Christy's, I have learned that bowlers are no longer made in their Buckinghamshire factory, and are now merely inspected and trimmed there. Are there any British or European makers of hard bowler hats left?

I had planned to replace my English made Christy's as the sweatband is coming loose. I could find no domestic hat renovator capable of replacing this on a hard bowler hat, after, admittedly, a very cursory investigation.

I searched the website prior to posting this thread and I could find no recent posts on the subject.

Orangehaggis

Can you post photos? Most of the modern Bowlers (Derbies, Melonen, Bombattas) are not very stiff. I call them stiff soft felt hats. I would go vintage if possible.

Patey (England) still makes a very stiff (Goss Body not Felt) Bowler but it would be to heavy for a dress hat (see equestrian). They are bespoke so expensive.

http://www.pateyhats.com/category/bowlers/

Wegener (Germany) makes a Melone (Bowler) that might work but it's not like a vintage stiff felt. I believe they are still made in Germany.

http://wegener.org/fileadmin/user_upload/katalog/Wegener_Classic/Classic.pdf

This shows the form which looks nice. You should read to the end of the thread.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?43817-Modern-fur-felt-Bowlers&p=1590169&viewfull=1#post1590169

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?28145-Post-New-Hats-Here!&p=1603098&viewfull=1#post1603098

http://www.kochs-sportbedarf.de/Melone-von-Wegener

 

[JackieMatra]

A lot of folks here are going to recommend vintage. Nice ones are out there if you're patient and the quality will far surpass most anything you'll find today.

The vintage connoiseur's credo, which, while it may be true in general, is often utterly false in the particular.
It's most certainly not true that the quality of everything has gone down over the years, as many like to claim.
As an example, many members of this forum just love to endlessly iterate how the quality of the hats of various hatters, particularly Borsalino, have declined over the years, but I would defy anyone to try to distinguish my 6 year old Borsalino hat from my 60 year old Borsalino hat, other than by the liners and tags inside the hats.

 

[besdor]

I wonder where the Christys hats are blocked out? They made the nicest bowler in the market. Hatco makes one but its soft, not nice the derbies of the past.

 

[mayserwegener]

The vintage connoiseur's credo, which, while it may be true in general, is often utterly false in the particular.
It's most certainly not true that the quality of everything has gone down over the years, as many like to claim.
As an example, many members of this forum just love to endlessly iterate how the quality of the hats of various hatters, particularly Borsalino, have declined over the years, but I would defy anyone to try to distinguish my 6 year old Borsalino hat from my 60 year old Borsalino hat, other than by the liners and tags inside the hats.

I can and I am in Maryland.

Also dress stiff felts are not what they use to be. There was a steady decline post WWII.

 

[Orangehaggis]

Thank you for your replies. The idea of vintage hats doesn't appeal to me, I'm afraid. I prefer to only place articles on my head that only I, myself, have sweated in! My Christy's bowler is made of rabbit felt over a rigid skeleton with a brown leather sweat band. If I could place the order again I would've chosen the cloth 'hunting pad' interior, which is what my previous bowler (of a now defunct London maker) was made with.

My most comfortable smart hat is a Beaver Homburg with roan sweat band made for me by D'Aquino of Portugal. It hasn't quite got the presence of a bowler, though.

Orangehaggis

 

[mayserwegener]

A worn or damaged sweatband hardly seems to be anywhere near a sufficient reason for disgarding an otherwise fine hat. Surely someone somewhere should be able to replace the sweatband for you. If not, then you should be able to buy a replacement sweatband and have a go at replacing it yourself.

I agree.

 

[JackieMatra]

Orangehaggis,
What size hat do you usually wear, or more to the point, what size is your Christy's bowler, as from my own experience, and that of a number of others that I have spoken with, Christy's bowlers, at least of the last decade or so, have consistently been sized an entire size too small?

 

[mayserwegener]

Thank you for your replies. The idea of vintage hats doesn't appeal to me, I'm afraid. I prefer to only place articles on my head that only I, myself, have sweated in! My Christy's bowler is made of rabbit felt over a rigid skeleton with a brown leather sweat band. If I could place the order again I would've chosen the cloth 'hunting pad' interior, which is what my previous bowler (of a now defunct London maker) was made with.

Orangehaggis

The Wegener I posted is also rabbit / hare. It doesn't look any different than this modern Christys' which is no match for a vintage stiff felt.

http://www.tailsandtheunexpected.com/hats/bowler-hats/black-fur-felt-bowler.html

 

[Orangehaggis]

My ideal hat size is 55.75cm. I had two size 56 hats from Chsrity's. The first was too snug and the second was too loose but I sewed a woollen pad to the underside of the sweat band at the back. Their sizing is, or was idiosyncratic. I can't think that the problem will be made any better by moving production to East Asia.

Orangehaggis

 

[JackieMatra]

I have three fur felt Christy's hats in all, and the other two were both absolutely true to size. It was just the bowler that was definitely precisely one entire size too small, while their size larger "59 cm" bowler fit me exactly like my other size 58 hats, which is just what a number of other people told me that their experiences were, but unfortunately after I had ordered and received my original Christy's bowler.
The reason that I asked about your hat size was because I thought that I might recommend somewhere to get a new replacement leather sweatband, but I'm afraid that he seems to specialize only in larger size hats.

 

[JackieMatra]

I would guess that this probably wouldn't work with a hard hat, but softer hats are easily shrunk if they, and particularly the sweatbands, are made of natural, non-synthetic materials.
Just wet the leather, cotton, or linen, etc. sweatband and then blast it with a hair dryer, or, if like me, you like to shape/re-shape your hats yourself, then just throw it in the clothes dryer.
Be sure to try the hat on after only a very little drying though, as most of the shrinkage will occur right at the beginning, within the first 30 seconds to a minute, at most. Otherwise you may well find yourself having to stretch the hat back out.

 

[Orangehaggis]

I've found great success in shrinking soft hats that were just slightly too loose by turning out the sweatband and spraying it liberally with water, as well as spraying the ribbon band and crown where it joins the brim and letting it dry. It's much gentler than exposing your hat to harsh heat.

I'd also like to add a roan band - the corrected grain leather one in it does me no favours in the summertime. Marching season, you know!

Orangehaggis

 

[Orangehaggis]

I don't know much about vintage stiff felt, but I can't imagine it would be even half as stiff as a hard bowler.

Orangehaggis

 

[mayserwegener]

A Patey Bowler (for horse riding) made of Goss (made of multiple layers shellac coated linen) is not a dress stiff felt. If you have an old (1950s and back) higher end dress stiff felt in hand you will see the difference from what is available today. The old ones a have specific stiffness (hard to describe) but not hard like a Patey made of Goss. They will easily dent (will show visible evidence) and even crack occasionally. Reducing weight and increasing flexibility were of high importance. The brim and binding work were also on a totally different level. I also have detailed information on the manufacturing process (not in use today) of dress stiff felts.

Here are most of my dress stiff felts. They are all 1930s or older.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/191-stiff-felt-collection/

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

You'd be surprised at how many minty vintage bowlers are floating around on the bay. Aside from that, I'd also highly reccommend Bob at Black Sheep hatworks. He makes a wonderful bowler.

 

[mayserwegener]

How do the BS felt characteristics compare to old dress stiff felts? I think you know what I am getting at. Making stiff felts was a different manufacturing process.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Orangehaggis you could try Melegari in Milan for the bowlers
http://www.cappelleriamelegari.com/...dex&cPath=68&zenid=a01c7hd0f9608ijb9hlsd5efb4
They work well and what I see is really in the Italian tradition hatters.
In Rome you can find this opportunity:
http://www.mauriziobazar.com/index.html
They work for cinema and Tv and theater for costume. They have a very interesting catalogue of historical hats.
You can enquire and draw your own conclusions if you work with Italian hatters.