Are good manners now vintage?

[Tomasso]

Miss Neecerie says it best.

Yep.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think, basically, it boils down to the difference between simply being oblivious and being a jackass. If you pass someone trying to wrestle a heavy package thru a door but you don't see them, or only glimpse them out of the corner of your eye, and keep moving -- well, everybody's oblivious once in a while. Maybe you were thinking about something you had to finish at work, or maybe you just remembered you left the iron on and have to get home fast, or maybe you just weren't thinking -- well, fine, obliviousness can be forgiven. Nobody sees or notices everything going on around them all the time.

But if you just stand there with your hands in your pockets and watch that person struggling with the heavy package and don't at least *offer* to hold the door for them, well, sorry, but you're a jackass. You're a jackass in 2010 and you'd be a jackass in 1940.

 

[Foofoogal]

23SkidooWithYou

most definitely how I know it and remember it. In small towns one can be marked for something they did 40 years ago. Good and bad.
EX:If the Dad was a bum the son had to prove themselves. If they did by being extra good and polite they might have a chance with some.

Not that much has changed IMHO. Maybe with the younger people it is changing and not all for the good also IMHO.

Some pressure from Society and expected norms are good.

from the conservative in Arkansas.

 

[Apple Annie]

Not bashing my friends across the pond because my husband is from England and I'm a seething Anglophile, but when I visit the UK and Ireland I notice NO ONE says "Thank you" when I hold the door open for them. NO ONE. Even here in Philadelphia you'll get a "Thank you" 99.9% of the time.

I'm not defending this sorry state of affairs - but did you by any chance miss the nod? Or the holding the door open for the next person? One thing I've noticed is that Americans say thanks out loud, while we Brits (not having a formal introduction and whatnot ) tend to either just smile, nod or pass the favour along to the next person. Just what I've noticed.

 

[Paisley]

Well, to be fair, the topic has drifted a little bit from the original post:

....I see people out and about completely lost in their in own little worlds. In the park walking, on the roads driving, in the stores shopping, and everywhere they go they seem completely unconcerned and disconnected from all the other people.

People used to tip their hats and make eye contact with each other.

People smiled at each other and knew how to say "excuse me" and "I beg your pardon"....

Aside from saying "excuse me," this sounds more like people minding their own business (for better or worse) than a lack of manners. At least, it is in a city of two million people.

 

[Panache]

Aside from saying "excuse me," this sounds more like people minding their own business (for better or worse) than a lack of manners. At least, it is in a city of two million people.

Paisley,

I don't think I managed to convey to you the problem I perceived. There is simply going about one's business and then there is completely disregarding one's fellows to the point where one is imposing on others.

There are certainly those, that while they aren't being terribly friendly, manage to get by whilst amongst their fellow man without imposition. I was trying to describe those whose obliviousness to others is the source of their rudeness. Indifference is one thing, imposition another.

Maybe it is simply a big city thing, and if so I envy those that have the opportunity to still stroll about in smaller communities. Perhaps their journeys take a little longer to get from hither to yon but I would bet they are the richer for it!

This was just something I was pondering and thought I would share here because the Ladies and Gentlemen of the Fedora Lounge all seem to relish not only the material trappings of the Golden Era but its ideals as well.

Apparently this topic is not new to the Fedora Lounge and I had no intent to beat a dead horse. I will conclude my contributions to this thread by saying that it seems to me that if one perceives the world as being less than well mannered then it behooves one to try their best to exemplify how a lady or gentleman should behave.

Better to light a candle than curse the dark

Cheers

Jamie

 

[Professor]

Valid Points from Both Sides

Yes, there have always been and always will be rude people, much like other evils of this world. It does seem though as the world's population increases, a greater percentage lives in closer proximity, and new generations develop increasing self-centeredness as well as an alarming lack of sophistication and intelligence, that basic politeness is endangered. On the other hand, it could merely be the higher population that makes rude people more numerous, and therefore seemingly prevalent.

I would point out though, minding your business is not exclusive to the city, we Lutherans from the prairie are well-known for it too, don't ya know!

 

[Professor]

The "Vintage" Pedigree of Manners

I'd be hesitant to use "vintage" as an adjective for manners, seeing as how some of the rudest people I've met are within the "vintage crowd". Seems to me the scene has a tendency to attract anti-social personalities. At the same time though, some of the finest people I've met are also within the scene. Just goes to show there are good folk and bad folk everywhere, always and forever.

 

[Viola]

So what is the vintage ladylike response when you've innocently smiled at someone, or not even that, and they (men, or boys) think you're entirely too friendly? I think you have to be older before you can get away with clubbing them with your purse, but good manners can be very misinterpreted, even passing eye contact.

 

[The Good]

You know, today while on campus, I was leaving one of my classes, and as I was about to leave the building, I noticed one of my fellow students, wheel-chair bound at that, going the same direction. Me being the gentleman that I have a tendency to be, I opened the door for her, and she thanked me. Another woman (older looking I might add) was walking through as I held the door, but she didn't. Not a peep. Oh well.

 

[LizzieMaine]

So what is the vintage ladylike response when you've innocently smiled at someone, or not even that, and they (men, or boys) think you're entirely too friendly? I think you have to be older before you can get away with clubbing them with your purse, but good manners can be very misinterpreted, even passing eye contact.

Just one look at the bulging leather monstrosity that is my purse is enough to keep fresh guys in their place. I don't even have to start swinging it.

But seriously, it's something you think about on a case-by-case basis, and common sense trumps courtesy. I have no problem smiling and making eye contact with an older gentleman passing by on the sidewalk, especially since I know most of them from work, but I keep my eyes straight ahead of me walking past a crowd of loudmouthed post-adolescents out smoking in front of a bar.

I also make eye contact with drivers while waiting at the crosswalk, and if they stop for me I mouth "thank you." If they slam on the brakes and yell at me, I point at the crosswalk and give them **The Look** that makes them think of that really mean teacher who pulled their ear in the second grade. Just because you're courteous doesn't mean you have to be a pushover.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

My two cents is that the lack of manners that we see in people today can be partially attributed to a cultural trend that has evolved - or in my opinion, devolved -- over the last 40 years or so. At that time a mindset emerged among some which regarded good manners, tact, and graciousness as pretentious and even hypocritical while pop psychology encouraged the free expression of one's true feelings -- which could be summed up by the expression "Let it all out!" This was hailed as a sign of a so-called "genuine" or "real" person -- a process which unfortunately has continued to the present.

 

[John in Covina]

There is a growing personal disconnect that is gaining through out society. With the growth of the disconnect we find that some of the niceties of manners and grace are less prevelant than before.

As to regional differences such as inner city urban realms often one must have a cautious sensability to balance sullen insolence with non-interaction and above all be non-judgemental lest one offend.

 

[p51]

There’s a natural inclination to gloss over the past. EVERY generation thinks they had respect for their elders, could be trusted for their work and everyone was kind to one another. If you really dig deeply into history, you’ll find people are just as surly, angry, dishonest and worthless than they were in any other era. Sure, there are trends based on where you are (farm country folks would be more cordial than city dwellers) and it ebbs and flows, but for the most part, I think people are people and have always been thus.
Technology does change the equation. Radio took people away from conversations, TV more so, and the internet more than that. But for the most part, people are about the same now than they were in the day. We’d rather not see it that way because the older we get, the more we’d like to paint the past with rose colored paints…

 

[Burton]

An interesting discussion and I agree with the questioning by the OP. While I can certainly see the "people are people" argument by some posters I also believe that basic human civility in the USA is at an all time low. An earlier poster used the word "vulgar" to describe current behaivors but really the word has almost no meaning these days. Its an archaic term losing meaning as we sink.

 

[reetpleat]

It is equally as irritating when I open the door for a woman, and she snaps at me "I can get the door myself" - maybe it has something to do with the majority of my age group (20 - 30) don’t understand what being respectful means. :rage:

Oh, come on now. Has this really happened to you? has it happened more than once? It has never happened to me in 43 years.

 

[reetpleat]

I don't believe this at all. Being rude in earlier times would of got you run you out on a rail.

Definitely a larger city thing and has to do with safety issues.

In certain small towns I visit it takes 10 minutes to get in the door as it is a series of who is going to open the door for who. If you have several doors it can take awhile. lol
Thank God manners are still alive and well some places.
I am pretty sure the recent reality shows and online places like Twitter and Facebook have risen up to fill that huge lack of social friendliness alive and well some places.
I saw a documentary on them the other day. Very interesting. Cheaper to make reality shows but people so desire to be validated.
I get great satisfaction out of smiling or saying a few words to someone and having them do the same back to me.
In smaller towns neighbors watch neighbors and have police on speed dial. lol

If you think that people were all polite back in the day, just read Dickens, or watch Deadwood, which is a pretty accurate representation of the place back then. Don't judge the past on the behavior of the upper class, or on movies.

 

[reetpleat]

Not to tell other people how to live, but you can spend a lot of time bemoaning the loss of courtesy, or manners, or dress style. or you can go out and do something fun, or at least have a fun conversation about hats or suits or dresses.

I honestly think looking at the negative of life is really addictive, but does no one any good.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

I'm not defending this sorry state of affairs - but did you by any chance miss the nod? Or the holding the door open for the next person? One thing I've noticed is that Americans say thanks out loud, while we Brits (not having a formal introduction and whatnot ) tend to either just smile, nod or pass the favour along to the next person. Just what I've noticed.

Nope, nothing. Just looking down at the ground. Not saying it's wrong if that's the culture -- it's just very different from what I'm used to and, yes, I see it as a bit rude. Even my husband thinks it's rude and he's a LONDONER! lol

And when my in-laws visit they always say the same thing -- "we can't get over how polite the Americans are!" lol

 

[Miss Golightly]

And when my in-laws visit they always say the same thing -- "we can't get over how polite the Americans are!" lol

I have to agree with your in-laws! I've been to New York many times and before I went always heard how rude New Yorkers are - I have to say that they were the exact opposite - very polite and friendly.

I've been to other parts of the States and I've always found the people to be very polite and considerate. I honestly can't recall remarking on someone being rude whilst I was there....