Are good manners now vintage?

[ScotchWhisky]

Today on campus, I watched as a male student opened a door for a female student. She gave him an absolutely filthy look and said, "Are you getting the door for me because I'm a lady?" The last word was positively dripping with sarcasm.

Not missing a beat, he replied, "No. I'm getting the door for you because I'm a gentleman." lol

I've seen many a person (male and female) breeze through a door held open for them without acknowledgment, but I'd never seen the "what, you think I can't get a door for myself" reaction until today. I think he handled it beautifully.

And if I may, I'd like to add encouragement to those who show little courtesies to others throughout the day: plenty of people might not acknowledge or appreciate it, but plenty of us do. I've had unpleasant days made infinitely better by somebody who was exceptionally polite or thoughtful, even just in some small way.

 

[Foofoogal]

Professor

Your public profile states you are 30. Once upon a time younger people respected their elders. Period.

I apologize you never got to experience my experiences. Done with this conversation.

 

[JimWagner]

Don't mean to be disrespectful but you are 30. I have a son older than you.
I am no. 9 of 11 children and definitely did not have luxuries back then but still say life was so much better.
Not for me only but for most.
[huh]
Your entitled to your opinion and me mine.
I lived it.

Life is pretty much always better when seen through the eyes of a child. And I include myself in that statement.

 

[Professor]

Your public profile states you are 30. Once upon a time younger people respected their elders..

Regardless of your age, you're being awfully presumptuous. Furthermore, for you to even associate respect with age in this specific context is entirely inappropriate. As for myself, I respect all equally, in spite of age. Personally, I've been looked down upon by others for being too young or too old, and would not do that to others myself.

 

[Professor]

Life is pretty much always better when seen through the eyes of a child. And I include myself in that statement.

Like that oft heard statement, "we didn't know we were poor." Many things I can look back on now and wonder how it could have been, but as a child lacking perspective, it was accepted. Yet, as you alluded to earlier, it's the positive memories you'd rather cling to anyhow.

 

[scotrace]

Rudeness in the Why Are People So Darn Rude? thread.
[huh]

Let's keep it civil, please.

 

[Foofoogal]

Well, I am going to try one more time. How in the world can someone else negate someone elses life experiences.

Fact:

Knock, knock. Trick or Treat.
Oh Fred, come see the little children.
Come on in.
Would you like some cocoa and some fresh baked cookies?

Knock, knock. Trick or Treat.
Come in dears.
Here is a popcorn ball or caramel apple. You choose.

Simpler time. Fact. I lived it.

I honestly believe it has to do where one lives. I endured the Houston area for over 30 years. One reason I left is to find what I had as a child in relation to manners. Not all of course were rude but definitely a fast slide to unreal rudeness on part of younger.
We have discussed this before here I am pretty sure.
Anyway, I now am privy to real adults teaching their children to say real phrases like Yes Maam, No Maam.
It is expected some places and unspoken rules.
I definitely am aware of many of the younger ones not giving respect unless it is earned. So completely opposite to what I learned and know.
Frankly it is scary and most definitely agreeable with the OP.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Like that oft heard statement, "we didn't know we were poor." Many things I can look back on now and wonder how it could have been, but as a child lacking perspective, it was accepted.

I think when people say something like "we didn't know we were poor," what they're saying is "*Everyone* we knew was poor." There wasn't the sense of social pressure to keep up with the Joneses that there is today, at least not in the working-class world where I grew up. And I do believe, just from what I saw and what I experienced, that life for working-class people then, even forty years ago, *was* a lot better than it is for the same class of people today -- it was even possible to own a home and support a family with a high school education or even less. The work wasn't necessarily "fun," but the value system then was different -- people didn't *expect* work to be fun.

I think a lot of these conflicts that come up in threads like this show just how deep the generation and class differences run today -- it really *was* a different world, and not just in terms of the clothes people wore and the manners people displayed. The entire worldview was different, and it's very difficult for someone who didn't experience it to understand just how different it was. And if you weren't raised that way, of course you wouldn't like it.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.



Depends on the culture.


For instance, good interpersonal manners are very important to life in Chile. When a Chilean arrives at a party or other social event, he/she will individually greet each and every person there, even strangers ... and when he/she leaves, there are goodbyes given to all, one by one. No generic hand-waving "hi" and "bye," as we Americans tend to do.


.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

There wasn't the sense of social pressure to keep up with the Joneses that there is today,

In the United States there always has been a socioeconomic stratification and the drive to attain it. The economic model known as Capitalism is based upon competition.

Although today we have a mixed economy compiled of socialism and capitalism; the forerunner was pure capitalism.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I think a large part of why these discussions always go like this...

is that when someone expresses an option that is not in keeping with one's own, many here feel that opinion somehow invalidates -their experience-, rather then recognizing that each persons experiences are there own and cannot be invalidated by what others think.

So then such posts are taken as almost an insult....rather then an academic discussion where all opinions are -valid- despite being debated, instead its all 'But you CANT think that....'


Until more folks here can back away -emotionally- from the discussions.....there won't be many actual discussions...

 

[Apple Annie]

I definitely am aware of many of the younger ones not giving respect unless it is earned. So completely opposite to what I learned and know.
Frankly it is scary and most definitely agreeable with the OP.

I'm don't mean to be at all agressive in this, I'm merely wondering, why does it scare you that now younger people respect people who earn it, and not everyone who comes their way who happened to be born before them? I think it's the perfectly right and natural thing. Of course, I'm biased, I'm a mere stripling of 18, but it's quite offensive when I'm expected to treat older people with more respect than they treat me with, simply because they are older. If they're older, then surely they've had the time to learn the respect that they demand from me. They may have the experience, but every one of us is capable of rational thought, and I am capable of making a rational decision about whether or not I should respect someone. That decision isn't affected by numbers.

That's not to say I go around swearing at old ladies I meet in the street - I hold the door for random strangers as much as the next person, but I object to being expected to show deference to people when that deference is groundless apart from the comparative number of years we have lived. Older people get exactly the same amount of respect with which I treat everyone, unless there is some other reason.

ETA - I was reading today something about Pliny bemoaning the lack of respect young Romans showed to their elders. He all but said "wasn't like that in my day". So this is a debate that's been going on for at least 2000 years.

 

[John in Covina]

Society knows that age is earned and hopefully with it are a lifetime of experience that translates into Knowledge. Respect is earned at its best but so is age.

Old people may not be able to show you the moves on your video game or fix your computer but they often can tell you when you are associating with someone that is not going to be beneficial.

They tend to understand personal interactions and have suggestions as to how to direct your life.

We get advice everyday, but so often we disregard the good advice and wind up making those situations that result in experience, so we can give advice that won't be taken in the future.

Mark Twain said when he was 17 his dad was so stupid he could barely tolerate being in the same room with him, by the time Twain turned 21 he could hardly believe how smart his dad had become.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In the United States there always has been a socioeconomic stratification and the drive to attain it. The economic model known as Capitalism is based upon competition.

Although today we have a mixed economy compiled of socialism and capitalism; the forerunner was pure capitalism.

In your neighborhood, maybe -- not in mine. We knew who the Joneses were, and we simply didn't care. We had more important concerns in our lives than seeing who could have a bigger car or a bigger house or a bigger kitchen. We were satisfied to have *any* car or *any* house, and if we had a bigger kitchen what would be the point of that? Just more floor to mop.

 

[Foofoogal]

Welcome Apple Annie. Love your name.

I understand you think it odd. This is where it seems the dividing line or Generation Gap as they call it is.
I recently saw a study that showed that the Generations are further apart then they ever have been.
If you Google this you will find many topics on it.

I guess I can understand why it has changed so much. Once upon a time by the sheer fact one was older it just demanded total obedience.
With such things as child abductions and such a push to teach your child to not blindly obey an adult came into being.
So basically I feel the baby was thrown out with the bath so to speak.

I can understand it but it is a totally different mindset from those taught earlier to obey any adult. If you hang around here and read past posts you will find many threads along these lines.
In the neighborhoods back then all children had to obey pretty much all adults or they would have something to answer for when they got home.
Can these 2 mindsets be bridged? I do not know.
The polarization of politics, religion etc. probably stems from these 2 mindsets IMHO.

 

[Foofoogal]

Mark Twain said when he was 17 his dad was so stupid he could barely tolerate being in the same room with him, by the time Twain turned 21 he could hardly believe how smart his dad had become.
__________________

lol lol
Our daughter just told me yesterday how stupid she was at 19. She is now 29.
Our son has also told me how glad he is we were so strict.

King James Bible
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Prov. 22:6.

Works for us. lol

 

[Carlisle Blues]

In your neighborhood, maybe -- not in mine. We knew who the Joneses were, and we simply didn't care. We had more important concerns in our lives than seeing who could have a bigger car or a bigger house or a bigger kitchen. We were satisfied to have *any* car or *any* house, and if we had a bigger kitchen what would be the point of that? Just more floor to mop.

I grew up in an inner city housing project. I share your views and experiences. In fact, the reason why I went to school was to simply get a job, not to make mega millions. As I went hungry more times than I care to say.

While I respect your experiences, my observation is that there is a social strata or economic strata or socioeconomic strata where people of all ages and backgrounds climb and compete and it always has been that way.

For example, being the teachers pet, prom queen, quarterback or valedictorian. More than just keeping up with the Joneses beating the Joneses. That is been instilled in all of us. It does not matter if a person comes from Park Avenue or the park bench it is a slice of "Americana".

I have never heard a child say " my mother told me to do things half way today".

 

[LizzieMaine]

While I respect your experiences, my observation is that there is a social strata or economic strata or socioeconomic strata where people of all ages and backgrounds climb and compete and it always has been that way.

Well, once again, all I can say is, that's not the way it was in my neighborhood. We were too busy keeping our heads above water to care about swimming into a bigger lake. I grew up among people who worked at the same jobs their entire lives, often doing the same work their parents before them did, often living their entire lives, birth to death, on the same street. (I'm the first member of my family in four generations to leave our street and I only moved thirty miles away.) The only time I ever picked up a sense of real hard-nosed competition was when the Methodists played the Congregationalists in the Fourth of July baseball game.

It wasn't a dog-eat-dog backstabbing culture at all -- we didn't have much, but we appreciated what we had, and because we were all pretty much in the same boat, there was a cultural solidarity that tended to override any sense of stepping on other people's backs to get ahead. When I tell people I grew up in Mayberry, that's exactly where I did grow up. And the older I get the more I miss it.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Well, once again, all I can say is, that's not the way it was in my neighborhood. We were too busy keeping our heads above water to care about swimming into a bigger lake. I grew up among people who worked at the same jobs their entire lives, often doing the same work their parents before them did, often living their entire lives, birth to death, on the same street. (I'm the first member of my family in four generations to leave our street and I only moved thirty miles away.) The only time I ever picked up a sense of real hard-nosed competition was when the Methodists played the Congregationalists in the Fourth of July baseball game.

It wasn't a dog-eat-dog backstabbing culture at all -- we didn't have much, but we appreciated what we had, and because we were all pretty much in the same boat, there was a cultural solidarity that tended to override any sense of stepping on other people's backs to get ahead. When I tell people I grew up in Mayberry, that's exactly where I did grow up. And the older I get the more I miss it.

We are speaking the same language yours happens to be with a red sox lean and mine happens to be with a yankee(2009 world series champ) accent.

Be that as it may. I did not witness dogs eating dogs either. That is not what competition is all about. Gratitude aplenty and a sense of neighborhood. Yet that does not preclude that which this country was built on competition, as you pointed out with your baseball game. Competition is interlaced with US history and is part of our society and culture.

 

[John in Covina]

Human nature hasn't changed much from the begining of societies, but as the condition changes the culture changes and different values can come into play. It's why we see a difference between Urban, suburban and rural in the US. There are differences in the condiditon and values between them and that affects what most people will do in repsonse to others, it shapes what is acceptable actions. What is acceptable now is not what was acceptable 20 or more years ago, what was acceptable back then is not acceptable now. (Watch TV comedies from the 1960's and 1970's they do things that would get you jail time now. One such change is what was comedic romantic advances then, would get you jailed for stalking now.)

There are shifts in what is acceptable and shifts in the side issues such as what is good manners and bad. Take cell phones, in the 1960's if a friend did not say: "excuse me I have to take this call" it would be considered rude, today people disengage, take the cell phone call with out a hesitation and silence you with a wave of their hand. For many that is acceptable not rude.