I think you are right about that Lenny. You would not believe the difference between my two older jackets (Comet and Bravo) and the new one. Like you I had them verify that the hide on the new one is competition weight and they say it is...but lots of difference.
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Anyone get their new Vanson delivered recently?
- Thread starter Bonneville
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I just did a side by side comparison and the new Enfield is definitly as heavy as my fifteen year old Manx, almost leaning to slightly heavier but that could be because one is brand new compared to the other. Interestingly the Comet which is ten years old is about the same weight but the leather seems stiffer with a different type of grain, more similar to horse but its definitly cow.
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My eight month old Enfield is heavier than my three year old Aero Highwayman and my two year old Fox Creek, which is a little lighter than the Highwayman. I don't have an old Enfield to compare it to. But I can't imagine an Enfield (or any motorcycle jacket) being heavier or stiffer than my Enfield.
Cliffnopus
One of the Regulars
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- Foxboro, MA
UPDATE:
I just today recieved my Vanson Model "J" coat. The coat tag says "Made in America" and the workmanship is great, this is one heavy sucker and the zipper feels like I'll need a helper to zip it up until it gets broken in a bit. They made one option for me, which I'll use today and that's a removable mouton fur collar. Gonna put it on now and go out. I'll have some photo's soon.
Cliff
Hmm, isn't it unusual that they write "made in america" rather than "made in usa"? That means it could very well be made in central or south america and no one would be the wiser. You see a lot of products in Europe that say "made in europe" -- on products that used to be made in germany or the uk but are now made in romania or other cheaper labor countries.
It wouldn't be bad if the prices were lower, but they're not. Doesn't seem like the savings are being passed on to the customers.
It wouldn't be bad if the prices were lower, but they're not. Doesn't seem like the savings are being passed on to the customers.
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Cliffnopus
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The lettering is directly below a graphic of the American flag. So, I assumed that it was the US of A; if I was less trusting I suppose that it still could mean Central or South America and indeed it may be.
However, in reviewing the coat in detail, I find the quality is none-the-less superb, no matter the point of origin.
Cliff
However, in reviewing the coat in detail, I find the quality is none-the-less superb, no matter the point of origin.
Cliff
If the quality is superb and you're happy with the jacket then that's great -- enjoy it.
I don't mind buying well-made products from other countries, especially Central and South America, if it's fair price and value.
I've paid top dollar for top U.S. and U.K.-made jackets and I don't mind paying a premium price knowing those products are worth the value.
What irks me is when an established US-based company moves production overseas in order to cut costs and boost profits but keeps the price unchanged.
I have nothing against a company like Vanson producing overseas, but I believe it would be fair of them to offer their imported jackets at a cheaper price.
US Wings manufactures their jackets in the US as well as overseas and they offer their imported jackets at considerably less than their US-made items. That seems pretty fair to me.
I was in a clothing store here in Berlin recently that had a lot of vintage-style U.S. clothing from the likes of Ralph Lauren's "high-end" Double RL label and Blauer and other big-name brands. Their simple jeans and shirts, all 'Made in China,' were priced at well over €200. I could never justify buying a pair of jeans made in China for €250 (that's $350!!), no matter what the stupid brand name is, because I know for a fact that that item of clothing is in fact only worth about $10-$15 in material and labor.
I don't know what it actually costs Schott or Fox Creek or Vanson to actually manufacture a motorcycle jacket in their U.S. factories, but I'm pretty confident it isn't that cheap considering U.S. wages, in Schott's case, union wages, plus increasingly expensive leather. Therefore I don't mind paying that premium price.
I would not spend $400-$500 on a Schott made in China because I would no longer recognize the value of it. I may buy a Schott made in China for $150, though. (I don't know if Schott makes jackets in China, just a hypothetical example).
At the same time, I would not hesitate to buy a coat made in Argentina or Uruguay because I know that beautiful leather work is done in those countries and if the price is fair, the price is fair.
There's a German company called Noble House that manufactures what I think are great-looking leather jackets in their Argentinean factory.
I haven't seen any of their stuff in person, but I am considering buying a jacket from them because their prices are really good and the stuff looks great and has received lots of positive reviews. But they are marketing their goods at very competitive prices and I believe the customer is benefiting from that.
I don't mind buying well-made products from other countries, especially Central and South America, if it's fair price and value.
I've paid top dollar for top U.S. and U.K.-made jackets and I don't mind paying a premium price knowing those products are worth the value.
What irks me is when an established US-based company moves production overseas in order to cut costs and boost profits but keeps the price unchanged.
I have nothing against a company like Vanson producing overseas, but I believe it would be fair of them to offer their imported jackets at a cheaper price.
US Wings manufactures their jackets in the US as well as overseas and they offer their imported jackets at considerably less than their US-made items. That seems pretty fair to me.
I was in a clothing store here in Berlin recently that had a lot of vintage-style U.S. clothing from the likes of Ralph Lauren's "high-end" Double RL label and Blauer and other big-name brands. Their simple jeans and shirts, all 'Made in China,' were priced at well over €200. I could never justify buying a pair of jeans made in China for €250 (that's $350!!), no matter what the stupid brand name is, because I know for a fact that that item of clothing is in fact only worth about $10-$15 in material and labor.
I don't know what it actually costs Schott or Fox Creek or Vanson to actually manufacture a motorcycle jacket in their U.S. factories, but I'm pretty confident it isn't that cheap considering U.S. wages, in Schott's case, union wages, plus increasingly expensive leather. Therefore I don't mind paying that premium price.
I would not spend $400-$500 on a Schott made in China because I would no longer recognize the value of it. I may buy a Schott made in China for $150, though. (I don't know if Schott makes jackets in China, just a hypothetical example).
At the same time, I would not hesitate to buy a coat made in Argentina or Uruguay because I know that beautiful leather work is done in those countries and if the price is fair, the price is fair.
There's a German company called Noble House that manufactures what I think are great-looking leather jackets in their Argentinean factory.
I haven't seen any of their stuff in person, but I am considering buying a jacket from them because their prices are really good and the stuff looks great and has received lots of positive reviews. But they are marketing their goods at very competitive prices and I believe the customer is benefiting from that.
Cliffnopus
One of the Regulars
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- Foxboro, MA
I agree wholeheartedly.
Cliff
Cliff
My jacket arrived back from repairs today. They did a good job on replacing the panels that were not up to par originally. This jacket came with very little grain showing at all. Just for the fun of it, I did as HoosierDaddy has advised with the hot water spray bottle. I soaked it down and then kneaded, rolled and twisted the hide for about an hour adding more spray occasionally and then have been wearing it since. This has really helped the appearance of the leather. Some nice grain has popped out and it actually feels a bit more like my other Vanson jackets even though it is not quite the same thickness. I think I will go through this process again and see if further improvement can be made. Incidentally, I checked and mine says Made in USA on the tag.
I'd love to see some pictures of you wearing your new Enfield - it sounds like we are similar in build. I just picked up a size 44 Horsehide Enfield on eBay - I tried a size 46 Enfield about a year ago and it fit me poorly. Vanson sizing seems to vary from model to model. My size 44 Model B was a bit snug, while the Size 44 Enfield is a great fit. The shoulders are a bit narrow for me, and I could use and extra 0.5" - 1" in the sleeve length, but that's just personal preference.
Couple of comments.
With respect to HD's post above:
The hide on my Enfield puts the hide on my Aero FQHH Highwayman to shame.
When I put it on and stepped on the bathroom scale, I was 20 lbs heavier! :eeek:
It's so thick I wonder if it'll ever break in. This might not be fair as my Aero is on its second season of regular wear, and the Enfield definitely hasn't been worn that much. But I never remember the Aero being that thick and stiff.
Next point; 2 years ago I bought a CSRX from a Chicago Cycle Dealership to replace one I stupidly sold.
When I got it, I called Nicole at Vanson thinking they screwed up and and used their Mid weight Firenze leather on this one as it was no where as thick as my previous one. (fit and construction were first rate though) She looked up the serial # and verified that it was, indeed, the heavy Competition Weight leather.
So, there definitely is/was a problem with their leather supplier.
Lenny
It's interesting - there must be a lot of variation in the Leather in Vansons. I had three come through my hands now, and none of them was as heavy as my Aero Horsehide halfbelt, and the leather was no thicker. THe thickest leather I have experienced is Aero's steerhide, which is so thick it's almost unwearable. I'm not trying to start a fight, just noting how much variation there seems to be - it sounds like you and HoosierDaddy got some very nice hides on your Enfields.
I just posted some pics of my new (to me) Vanson Enfield. Check 'em out here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?55253-Vanson-Enfield-in-Cordovan-Horsehide-pics!&p=1207968#post1207968
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?55253-Vanson-Enfield-in-Cordovan-Horsehide-pics!&p=1207968#post1207968
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norton123
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- bloomington
I received my Model D after probably 2 months but I should have ordered a custom size and waited longer. I should have known better, but stock sizes just don't fit me anymore. Sleeves too long, a little to long in the body, and too tight in the back.
Absolutely beautiful tho and super thick heavy and stiff leather. Too bad I probably won't be able to wear it on the bike.
Absolutely beautiful tho and super thick heavy and stiff leather. Too bad I probably won't be able to wear it on the bike.
I odered custom sizing, it has been six months and no word, I was assured when I placed the order that it would be less than six months. I sent an email that so far has not been replied to. I was done with Vanson when I placed the order, I am twice as done now, and if the subject ever comes up will warn people to stay away. I hope if it does arrive that it doesn't disapoint.
Thanks for the advice. I haven't ordered any thing from Noble and probably won't at this point.
Sorry to hear about your experience with Vanson. I was really interested in getting a Vanson last year and would have ordered one if they had been more helpful. I found their customer service to be really bad. I sent them a simple email query about sizing and ordering and it took them about six weeks to answer it, basically telling me that they had nothing in stock and that it would take six months to make a jacket. It was as if they were saying, "Don't even bother with an order."
They might have great leather, but they make it very difficult to buy one of their jackets.
I later discovered Fox Creek, which has superb customer service, and fell in love with their Grayson jacket. I don't think I've ever received a jacket that fast from the U.S. -- it must have gone out the day I ordered it.
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dortiz
One of the Regulars
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- Leesburg VA
I called vanson and after a few emails was told they had the coat I wanted in stock and it would get to my dealer in about two weeks. That night I was at the dealer who by now had also talked to the rep. They took my payment and said we will see it soon. After two weeks I called and the dealer said it was now backordered. Vanson then returned my email saying the 1 and only 1 that was there went somehwhere else and that in 3 months a new run would start. At this point I just took my money and said never mind. based on this part I knew the next three months would just be as bad and why bother with a company thats this hard to interact with.
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