Any writers?

[davidraphael]

Yes, craft is the right word.
And I also use verbs such as designing and building when I discuss writing characters and plots.

'Artiness' rarely enters into it. Writing often feels like it has more in common with architecture.

 

[AmateisGal]

Craft is another good word for it. Maybe a softer one, but in my understanding, maybe not.

To me a craft is something where, if you're going to learn it and do it right, you have to put aside your reasons and devote yourself entirely to process until that process is mastered - and the next, and the next.

Craft is an exquisitely ruthless form of delayed gratification. If you love something, let it go - and work like hell on something else. It's as if you have to turn off your heart.

Very well said.

The only time I write to "get something off my chest" is when I journal. And that's for my eyes only, no one else's.

 

[Undertow]

Fletch, I like both of those explanations!

Mine is also a slavery of sorts: I write because I must. And if I must write, I must also insist I write well. So I'm constantly writing, editing, musing, improving, changing, anguishing, etc.

There are typically few opportunites to feel "satisfied" or "fulfilled" and those usually fade to new feelings of drudgery.

You ever see those photos of the fireman holding the baby after OK city bombing? Or the Hilary and Chelsea Clinton with bindi's on their heads, both turning to see the camera? (and a whole bunch of others) Anyhow, that photographer who used to work for the AP once told me, "Writing is like mountain climbing. You struggle and crawl up one side, you hit the peak, you feel accomplished, and you slide down the other. But at the end, there's another mountain to climb, and another peak to brave."

 

[Senator Jack]

Writing often feels like it has more in common with architecture.

That's exactly how I've always put it, David. The climax and denouement are the attic and roof, and once i finally get those in place, I find I have to go back and shore up the basement and frame by adding facts, emotions, characterizations. Sort of like saying, 'Oops, the house is leaning to the left; I better add some timber.'

Sometimes I also compare to Harpo and Chico's moustache trim in 'Monkey Business'. 'Now you cutta too much. Maybe you betta give a snoop over here.'

 

[AmateisGal]

Do any of you keep a journal for each novel you work on? I hit upon this idea a few years ago when I was forever writing scraps of information down on whatever I could find (post-its, used envelopes, etc.) and could never find where I'd put stuff. So I bought a journal and determined to carry it with me everywhere for the sole purpose of writing down notes and plot points, characterization, dialogue snippets, what-have-you for the work-in-progress.

I keep a journal for each novel now, and it's so nice to have everything in one spot.

 

[Senator Jack]

Rejected again. Now comes the depression.

 

[AmateisGal]

Rejected again. Now comes the depression.

By the publisher you submitted the full to? DARN IT. Sorry to hear this, Jack.

Did they give you any kind of good feedback?

 

[Senator Jack]

A succinct, 'It's clever, but not for us.' Unbridled Books. Too bad. I think it would have been a good fit.

 

[davidraphael]

Sometimes I also compare to Harpo and Chico's moustache trim in 'Monkey Business'. 'Now you cutta too much. Maybe you betta give a snoop over here.'

LOL. I will be stealing that analogy. Great image/scene.

Sorry to hear about the rejection slip. It's hard in screenwriting, too - there's often absolutely no response at all. They read the screenplay and then you never hear from them again. You wonder if they even read it, and if they did, what they thought. You're left completely in the dark.
Worse, on the rare occasion that you do get a response, you can tell that some unqualified reader only read the 1st ten pages, and even then, too quickly so that they missed stuff.

Even if someone does take a strong interest you can be subjected to the 'slow no', which manifests itself as great enthusiasm from the interested party "we love it/this is gonna cause a bidding war/we want this made by the end of the year/this is very special, unique/I feel we have a relationship" blah blah blah until one day they don't take your calls or reply to emails. Like fickle children, they've moved on to a new fleeting passion...

I've even heard of writers whose script generated a bidding war. It accelerated very quickly, until Producer A eventually backed out. And then all the others backed out - if Producer A didn't want it anymore then it wasn't worth bidding on. Another writer's script was bought and then buried in a drawer simply because a producer didn't want another producer to make it. It's all about owning properties.

 

[Undertow]

Sorry to hear about that Jack! I was kinda hoping you'd pop in with the big "YAY!".

I also received a reject on Monday. Wasn't going to mention it, but your reject reminded me of my response, "Thanks for you submission, unfortunately, we are not a fit. Good luck." lol Well tell me how you really feel!

AmateisGal, I think that's a great idea; I need a centralized location for my scraps and notes as well. :eusa_clap

 

[Senator Jack]

Do any of you keep a journal for each novel you work on?

This, I now realize, I have to do, AG. I've been using letter-sized pads, but looking through the notes I wrote for the next novel, I see I've got notes for seven different stories thrown in with it along with various ideas for comedy sketches, the odd phone number or two, and an order for Hunan Duck, two eggrolls, pork rib tips, and ginger ale. Those small hard-covered journals for $10 each should do nicely, I imagine.

 

[AmateisGal]

This, I now realize, I have to do, AG. I've been using letter-sized pads, but looking through the notes I wrote for the next novel, I see I've got notes for seven different stories thrown in with it along with various ideas for comedy sketches, the odd phone number or two, and an order for Hunan Duck, two eggrolls, pork rib tips, and ginger ale. Those small hard-covered journals for $10 each should do nicely, I imagine.

Hope it works for you, Jack. It's certainly helped me. Even if I do scribble a note on another piece of paper when my journal isn't close by, I actually tape it into my journal later.

 

[Undertow]

This, I now realize, I have to do, AG. I've been using letter-sized pads, but looking through the notes I wrote for the next novel, I see I've got notes for seven different stories thrown in with it along with various ideas for comedy sketches, the odd phone number or two, and an order for Hunan Duck, two eggrolls, pork rib tips, and ginger ale. Those small hard-covered journals for $10 each should do nicely, I imagine.

lol
That's typically what I find, too. A few sheets lying on my coffee table (much to the annoyance of the little lady). When I finally review them, their notes for a novel I haven't touched in months, as well as various phone numbers, appointments and ideas for other novels.

Oh, I keep the for posterity sake, but half the time I don't even look at them again. :eusa_doh:

Good idea AmateisGal! I'll have to get this in line!

 

[AmateisGal]

Are any of you interested in some sort of a writing accountability challenge? I am in serious need of some discipline here. I don't know if it's the hot weather or school starting for my daughter or my husband's penchant for putting in WW2 movies just when I need to write that's sabotaging me, but I really need to buckle down and get to work.

Maybe we could just do something casual. Post our goal for the week and then next week, see if we met it?

What do you guys think?

 

[Undertow]

Are any of you interested in some sort of a writing accountability challenge? I am in serious need of some discipline here. I don't know if it's the hot weather or school starting for my daughter or my husband's penchant for putting in WW2 movies just when I need to write that's sabotaging me, but I really need to buckle down and get to work.

Maybe we could just do something casual. Post our goal for the week and then next week, see if we met it?

What do you guys think?

I'm fine with that. In fact, my recent participation in this thread has resulted in a much more focused effort to get moving. In fact, I've already laid out an outline (with most characters profiled) for a detective novel, and I'm currently in the middle of chapter 2.

 

[AmateisGal]

I'm fine with that. In fact, my recent participation in this thread has resulted in a much more focused effort to get moving. In fact, I've already laid out an outline (with most characters profiled) for a detective novel, and I'm currently in the middle of chapter 2.

That's awesome, Undertow. :eusa_clap

 

[Undertow]

Ok, so with AG's suggestion in mind, my goal for 09/03 will be to send 3 query letters to 3 unsuspecting agents lol , and to complete chapter 2 of my little detective novel. Anyone else taking the challenge?

 

[Undertow]

Oh, btw, I was talking to my sister a week ago about writing and something came up that she thought was strange - and I'd like to pose a question to you writers based one of my habits.

I'm not strictly within a genre, in fact, I'm all over the place. As mentioned in previous threads (and pms), I have a story about a schizophrenic serial killer, a bloated impersonator who's impersonating himself, a detective noir, a small town drunk tragedy, and some other short stories involving horse butchery, and impromptu amputation.

Every single one of my stories ties into the other, whether it's a character, or a distinct setting, or an event. In other words, you could read my detective story and you'd be introduced to the impersonator Rod "the Rocket" Williams (he and the detective eat at the same diner). If you read Rod's story, you'd come across the serial killer, Robert, skulking around and talking to himself on the subway platforms. The detective story also has a drug dealing kingpin Mike the Butcher that coincides with a turning point in the small town drunkard story.

So do any of you do this coincidentally, or with purpose?

 

[AmateisGal]

Oh, btw, I was talking to my sister a week ago about writing and something came up that she thought was strange - and I'd like to pose a question to you writers based one of my habits.

I'm not strictly within a genre, in fact, I'm all over the place. As mentioned in previous threads (and pms), I have a story about a schizophrenic serial killer, a bloated impersonator who's impersonating himself, a detective noir, a small town drunk tragedy, and some other short stories involving horse butchery, and impromptu amputation.

Every single one of my stories ties into the other, whether it's a character, or a distinct setting, or an event. In other words, you could read my detective story and you'd be introduced to the impersonator Rod "the Rocket" Williams (he and the detective eat at the same diner). If you read Rod's story, you'd come across the serial killer, Robert, skulking around and talking to himself on the subway platforms. The detective story also has a drug dealing kingpin Mike the Butcher that coincides with a turning point in the small town drunkard story.

So do any of you do this coincidentally, or with purpose?

Hmm. Fascinating question.

I think the only thing that links my stories together is the setting. I don't have the same characters in other stories...though they may be the same TYPE of character.

But when I read your post, Undertow, I thought, "How brilliant!" Seriously. I love the idea of everything being connected like this. And to me, it would be an agent's dream to snag someone like you who has the ability to do this.

Ok. As for my challenge to myself: I plan to finish Chapter Whatever (I don't remember at the moment which one I'm on - chalk it up to being under the weather all day) this weekend.

Best of luck with the queries, Undertow!

 

[AmateisGal]

Goal Update

Goal: To finish chapter six - GOAL MET

Total word count this weekend: 4,000

Not too shabby...