Any reason to buy a new hat?

[facade]

I'm new to this whole wearing a hat thing so I'm learnig the ropes. I've bought a couple new hats and a bunch from Ebay (somebody please stop me).

I bought a new Borsalino straw hat from a local hat store and it was quite expensive. Personally I don't see much quality difference between this hat and a $10 straw hat from a street vendor. Certainly not enough to justify the massive price difference.

So the question is, other then instant gratification, is there any reason to buy newly manufactured hats? Or should one just stick to vintage, which is both cheaper and seemingly better quality?

 

[danofarlington]

I'm new to this whole wearing a hat thing so I'm learnig the ropes. I've bought a couple new hats and a bunch from Ebay (somebody please stop me).

I bought a new Borsalino straw hat from a local hat store and it was quite expensive. Personally I don't see much quality difference between this hat and a $10 straw hat from a street vendor. Certainly not enough to justify the massive price difference.

So the question is, other then instant gratification, is there any reason to buy newly manufactured hats? Or should one just stick to vintage, which is both cheaper and seemingly better quality?

You've pushed their buttons! Now comes the tidal wave. It would have been slightly more fun if you had written, "always buy new because the quality is better and the price is lower." I don't necessarily agree with the tidal wave, but you've asked for it!

 

[Spats McGee]

In part, it depends on your size. For us melonheads, vintage isn't cheaper.

And welcome to the Lounge, facade!

 

[jwalls]

Welcome

Enjoy your time with us. As for my 2 cents worth, vintage or custom hats offer superior quality, and finish to anything available from the mass market manufacturers.

 

[fluteplayer07]

Welcome! Yes, there are a few reasons why one would buy modern hats. Buying modern hats supports today's hat-making industry, and the vendors that sell them. You are certain of the size of the hat, since you try it on in person. You also are treated with the customer service buying a hat requires. Modern hats also are blocked in a different shape. Crowns on modern hats are almost always shorter and more tapered in appearance, which some find more appealing to their face shape. Vintage hats can be found in a variety of crown blockings, but are generally taller and less tapered in appearance.

Vintage hats are almost always higher in quality, dollar for dollar, however. But they can be hard to find in larger sizes. And vintage hats have that certain... appeal to them (in my opinion, at least). That little connection with history; a veritable window to decades past that you can hold and display.

Again, welcome!
Cheers,

 

[tonyb]

I can't speak to the quality of that new high-priced Borsalino-branded straw hat of yours, but your larger point, that vintage hats represent a better value than new ones, would meet with agreement among many around this joint.

This is all provided that the vintage hat buyer is savvy enough to avoid the common pitfalls. Most online sellers know next to nothing about hats, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, seeing how the buyer can play that to his advantage.

Pictures on a computer monitor and a seller's description tell only so much, though. Rare is the old hat that's truly NOS (new old stock) or "deadstock," although such hats do indeed exist. But there are indeed many vintage hats in quite fine condition, and even more in not-quite-pristine-but-still-quite-serviceable condition. And there must be literally millions of vintage hats showing various amounts of wear and tear. Some are worth the trouble and expense of refurbishing, and some aren't.

So, why buy a new hat? Well, there's less luck (or lack thereof) involved, and you'll be much likelier to get the hat you want in far less time if you buy a new custom. If you're among those who enjoy the hunt, though, go for the vintage hats. Just be prepared to be disappointed every now and then.

 

[facade]

I can't speak to the quality of that new high-priced Borsalino-branded straw hat of yours, but your larger point, that vintage hats represent a better value than new ones, would meet with agreement among many around this joint.

This is all provided that the vintage hat buyer is savvy enough to avoid the common pitfalls. Most online sellers know next to nothing about hats, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, seeing how the buyer can play that to his advantage.

Pictures on a computer monitor and a seller's description tell only so much, though. Rare is the old hat that's truly NOS (new old stock) or "deadstock," although such hats do indeed exist. But there are indeed many vintage hats in quite fine condition, and even more in not-quite-pristine-but-still-quite-serviceable condition. And there must be literally millions of vintage hats showing various amounts of wear and tear. Some are worth the trouble and expense of refurbishing, and some aren't.

So, why buy a new hat? Well, there's less luck (or lack thereof) involved, and you'll be much likelier to get the hat you want in far less time if you buy a new custom. If you're among those who enjoy the hunt, though, go for the vintage hats. Just be prepared to be disappointed every now and then.

Thanks everyone for the welcomes.

Are todays custom made hats of similar quality to higher quality vintage hats? Or are even the customs limited to lower quality due to things such as the lower quality raw materials and/or less experienced craftsman?

I tried to get this zephyr weight: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120589655710&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT

But some wag, probably around here somewhere, out-sniped me. :rage: Do todays customs come with all the old-time bells and whistles (zephyr weight, cavanagh edge etc.)? And if so I imagine the cost is quite high?

 

[Rick Blaine]

Quite so!

...vintage hats have that certain... appeal to them (in my opinion, at least). That little connection with history; a veritable window to decades past that you can hold and display.

Well said, that!


And welcome too, facade, nice to see you here. I once lived up yr. way- 22nd @ 7th- back in the days of Ed ("How'm I doing, New York?")Koch... those were th' days!

 

[RBH]

Welcome to the Lounge!
I have them all.. vintage, custom and new.

The truth be told all of them are [have] great hats. I have spent nice money on vintage only to have them be total nothings. The same can be said for new hats. I have also had great new ones such as the Stetson Whippet I just recieved, it is a stiff hat and not everyone will like it but it has the high crown and nice brim that most vintage fedoras had. So in my book its a fine hat.
Custom is another matter as you have the hat made to order.
Good luck and I hope you enjoy your stay!

 

[fluteplayer07]

Thanks everyone for the welcomes.

Are todays custom made hats of similar quality of higher quality vintage hats? Or are even the customs limited to lower quality due to things such as the lower quality raw materials and/or less experienced craftsman?

I tried to get this zephyr weight: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120589655710&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT

But some wag, probably around here somewhere, out-sniped me. :rage: Do todays customs come with all the old-time bells and whistles (zephyr weight, cavanagh edge etc.)? And if so I imagine the cost is quite high?

Custom hats from craftsmen such as Art at VS, or Graham at Optimo (only a few of our excellent hat makers still active) are the few modern hats as good as or better than vintage hats. Some custom fit the shape of your head, a feature not found in vintage hats. No one makes a Cav edge anymore. It's something that can only be made during the felting process. It's sadly a dead craft. Art used to make lightweight hats (and may still have a few bodies left if you hurry), but his felt supplier dropped it from their line up. Optimo still has light and feather weight felts, but they're expensive.

So, no, custom makers are not limited by poor materials. They still can use 100% beaver felts (the best), some use vintage ribbon (also the best), and roan leather sweats (starting to see a trend?). They are the artisans that can make hats that, in my opinion, top vintage ones. But prepare to pay a premium for it.

Here is my custom hat makers shortlist (in no order):

-Art at Vintage Silhouettes
-Graham at Optimo
-Tony at Tumwater
-Steve at Adventurebilt
-John at Penman Hat Co.
-Mike at Buckaroo Hatters
-Orlando at Worth & Worth

There are yet more, but these are the big names I think of when someone says 'custom'.

 

[Neophyte]

The Akubra hats are some of the best modern hats under $200 that you can buy. I have three and I couldn't be happier. With a head size of 7 3/8, there's not a lot of vintage stuff out there. Once I have a bit more disposable income, though, I'll go custom.

I really recommend the Akubra fedora line, though, especially if you've periods of rough weather (or simply just rains a lot) in your area. They're truly great hats. If you want to wear a hat, but don't want to risk damage to your vintage or custom, go modern.

Here's me in my new Squatter, locked outside of my house in a rainstorm. Notice I don't look happy.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Tone]

Figure out which style of hat you like. There are plenty of modern, factory-made hats out there (less expensive because of bulk processing and sales) that are just as good as many of the others.

There are few fedora styles you couldn't get out of one of Akubras traditional open-crowned models.

 

[facade]

Custom hats from craftsmen such as Art at VS, or Graham at Optimo (only a few of our excellent hat makers still active) are the few modern hats as good as or better than vintage hats. Some custom fit the shape of your head, a feature not found in vintage hats. No one makes a Cav edge anymore. It's something that can only be made during the felting process. It's sadly a dead craft. Art used to make lightweight hats (and may still have a few bodies left if you hurry), but his felt supplier dropped it from their line up. Optimo still has light and feather weight felts, but they're expensive.

So, no, custom makers are not limited by poor materials. They still can use 100% beaver felts (the best), some use vintage ribbon (also the best), and roan leather sweats (starting to see a trend?). They are the artisans that can make hats that, in my opinion, top vintage ones. But prepare to pay a premium for it.

Here is my custom hat makers shortlist (in no order):

-Art at Vintage Silhouettes
-Graham at Optimo
-Tony at Tumwater
-Steve at Adventurebilt
-John at Penman Hat Co.
-Mike at Buckaroo Hatters
-Orlando at Worth & Worth

There are yet more, but these are the big names I think of when someone says 'custom'.

So the VS limited editions came out in 2006, 10 hats only, and there are still a lot available? I know hats aren't all that popular amongst the general public but that still seems like awfully pokey sales. Am I missing something?

 

[Spats McGee]

So the VS limited editions came out in 2006, 10 hats only, and there are still a lot available? I know hats aren't all that popular amongst the general public but that still seems like awfully pokey sales. Am I missing something?

VS hats are custom hats, not mass production.

 

[fluteplayer07]

So the VS limited editions came out in 2006, 10 hats only, and there are still a lot available? I know hats aren't all that popular amongst the general public but that still seems like awfully pokey sales. Am I missing something?

I think it must be because Art's work is still small scale (compared to a factory, or even some larger custom workers). And most of the work that Art does is in customs. And I think the list has been updated since then, although not since I found out about Art. The odd VS that pops up on Fleabay is an old Limited Edition in a different color or ribbon style than listed, leading me to believe the list has undergone some changes in its history.

 

[Tone]

Guess the answer is this: No, there really is no reason to buy a new hat. If you see one that looks exactly like another and they feel the same to you; buy the one that's less expensive. You'll probably have more fun in it, overall, and you won't worry so much when something happens to it. [huh]

Water tests, for example: Most will do weird things to a relatively inexpensive hat and then post their findings on how it fares. You'll almost never see anyone take a hat they've spent $300 on and try these experiments with - so, ultimately, the less expensive hats get a real trial run. The others, well, you "read" about how they do, but it's doubtful they ever really see the same conditions (so, of course, they "hold up really well" .)

If you like one; pick one. If it continues to last beyond the reputed glory of 'vintage' and/or 'custom-made quality craftsmanship' and you find yourself still wearing it and having fun...then, no, there really is no reason to buy a new hat.

 

[donnc]

Cooties, maybe?

 

[Tone]

Cooties is always a worry. Never know which hat has them and which doesn't. If you get a hold of one without Cooties, you're good. It's luck, though, really.

 

[Dewhurst]

I'm indifferent on the "vintage like wine" vs "new" topic. I've had too many great new hats to care much about the distinction. Old Mass Market vs New Mass Market does present discernable differences, though. (I just lack the component required to care.)

If you are looking for a hat and find a hat that you like, old or new, and it meets your expectations then buy it. If it doesn't, whether old or new, then don't. Easy as that.

 

[facade]

Cooties, maybe?

Best reason yet...

So I ordered a VS Wall Street.

You people suck for making me do this! :whip: