Any Do's & Don'ts in military clothing?

[2jakes]

Did you reply to him or were you too embarrassed?!

I was too embarrassed and too dumb to understand that he
was helping me and did not start a conversation.
He was a pleasant man.
He's gone now.
There are so many questions I have about those days with
the Flying Tigers in China prior to WW2.
To hear it first-hand from him would’ve been great.

Ace pilot David Lee “Tex” Hill of the Flying Tigers. A.V.G.

 

[Peacoat]

A Flying Tiger pilot once told me that my AVG patch was on the wrong shoulder
on my A-2 jacket. This was back in my youth when I wore leather jackets with
all kinds of painted images.

Even though the pilots were officially part of the Chinese Air Force, I imagine US patching protocol was followed as they were all recruited from the US Army, Navy and Marine Corp. You probably had the patch on the left shoulder, and it should have been on the right shoulder as a former combat unit. I'm guessing that is what he meant.

 

[2jakes]

Even though the pilots were officially part of the Chinese Air Force, I imagine US patching protocol was followed as they were all recruited from the US Army, Navy and Marine Corp. You probably had the patch on the left shoulder, and it should have been on the right shoulder as a former combat unit. I'm guessing that is what he meant.

Something like that.
If I'm not mistaken, I was looking at images of those pilots with the C.B.I. patches
and did not take into account that looking at the photo made it appear to be on a
certain side.
Most of these patches were available at the local gun shows.
I still have some painted leather jackets but today I prefer jackets with no
patches or art work.

 

[Peacoat]

If the photographs were taken while the pilots were still with the AVG, the patches would have been on the left sleeve at the shoulder. It isn't until one leaves the unit and joins another unit that the patch is moved to the right sleeve, and the patch of the current unit is worn on the left sleeve at the shoulder. Can be a bit confusing. If one has served in combat with more than one unit (heaven forbid), it is his option as to which unit will be represented by the combat patch on the right sleeve.

 

[Ticklishchap]

I was too embarrassed and too dumb to understand that he
was helping me and did not start a conversation.
He was a pleasant man.
He's gone now.
There are so many questions I have about those days with
the Flying Tigers in China prior to WW2.
To hear it first-hand from him would’ve been great.
View attachment 132858
Ace pilot David Lee “Tex” Hill of the Flying Tigers. A.V.G.

That’s one of the things about being young: it’s sometimes hard to find the right words.

It’s easy for us in the US and UK to forget how dramatic events were in China - and how devastating - prior to and during World War II, with repercussions that continue today.

 

[2jakes]

That’s one of the things about being young: it’s sometimes hard to find the right words.

At 19, I was so young and naïve...it's a miracle I made it back in one piece from
overseas tour of duty.

 

[Ticklishchap]

At 19, I was so young and naïve...it's a miracle I made it back in one piece from
overseas tour of duty.

May I ask you where you did your tour of duty?

 

[2jakes]

May I ask you where you did your tour of duty?

Lackland~~~Bergstrom~~~Chanute~~~Castle~~~Anderson.
B-52 Stratofortress bombers during Vietnam conflict.
Most bases now exist only in my memories.

 

[Ticklishchap]

Lackland~~~Bergstrom~~~Chanute~~~Castle~~~Anderson.
B-52 Stratofortress bombers during Vietnam conflict.

As a younger man I very much look up to you for your service record.

Vietnam was one of the great tragedies of the C20 for everyone involved. I remember it better than most Brits because I lived in Melbourne for several years when I was very young and Australia was in the war whereas Britain stayed out. Some of the earliest news items I recall were about Saigon, as itbthen was, and Phnom Penh, Cambodia.

I read an article in the most recent New Yorker that reminded me that this week is the anniversary of the anti-war demo in Chicago at the Democratic Convention, when Mayor Daley unleashed his forces. ...

 

[Ticklishchap]

At 19, I was so young and naïve...it's a miracle I made it back in one piece from
overseas tour of duty.

With great respect, you don’t seem at all naive now! And certainly not lost for words. In fact, having corresponded with you on several threads I don’t think there’s much I can’t talk with you about - and you have a great sense of humor too.

 

[2jakes]

I rarely speak about it except probably here on the forum.
A tragedy indeed.
I will carry with me forever the memories of so many young men and women who never made it back and leave it at that.
Thanks.

 

[Ticklishchap]

I rarely speak about it except probably here on the forum.
A tragedy indeed.
I will carry with me forever the memories of so many young men and women who never made it back and leave it at that.
Thanks.

Thank you for sharing that.

 

[Deacon211]

It's hard to say what the AVG pilot meant when he was referring to your jacket. But the combat patch thing is a very specific army tradition that does not apply to other services and may not have applied in WWII or to pilots.

If you look at A-2s in general, the squadron patch was worn on the chest, and seldom on other uniform items. So, there wasn't much patch swapping which would be difficult for obvious reasons. I believe the generic AVG patch was worn on the left sleeve, which is where I think you would have worn your numbered Air Force patch (8th AF, 15th AF, etc). Squadron patches seldom seemed to be worn on khakis and such. I guess the numbered AF would be the rough equivalent of a division in the infantry, tanks, etc which makes sense.

Not sure what the patch etiquette was when the AVG was absorbed into the USAAF, but there is also the possibility that a certain special provision was made for the AVG pilots that remained and I'm sure that any surviving members were given a good deal of latitude in how they wore their uniform...especially away from the flagpole!

Do you remember which sleeve it was that you wore it?

 

[2jakes]

It's hard to say what the AVG pilot meant when he was referring to your jacket. But the combat patch thing is a very specific army tradition that does not apply to other services and may not have applied in WWII or to pilots.

If you look at A-2s in general, the squadron patch was worn on the chest, and seldom on other uniform items. So, there wasn't much patch swapping which would be difficult for obvious reasons. I believe the generic AVG patch was worn on the left sleeve, which is where I think you would have worn your numbered Air Force patch (8th AF, 15th AF, etc). Squadron patches seldom seemed to be worn on khakis and such. I guess the numbered AF would be the rough equivalent of a division in the infantry, tanks, etc which makes sense.

Not sure what the patch etiquette was when the AVG was absorbed into the USAAF, but there is also the possibility that a certain special provision was made for the AVG pilots that remained and I'm sure that any surviving members were given a good deal of latitude in how they wore their uniform...especially away from the flagpole!

Do you remember which sleeve it was that you wore it?

I've been calling it "AVG"....
But this was the type of patch that I placed on my right shoulder leather jacket. (A-2)


His jacket was not an A-2 .

Tex Hill jacket which I believe is a G-1.

I placed mine on the right sleeve... when actually his is on the left side.
That's when he commented, "son... you've got that patch on the wrong side!"
Or something like that.
He was not upset, I believe he was flattered and it was me who was embarrassed for not taking care to put in correctly.

BTW:
Mr. Tex Hill is buried at Fort Sam National cemetary in San Antonio....my hometown.

 

[Deacon211]

Ah, I should have read more closely. I didn't read it was Tex hill! There's a man with some stories, I'll wager.

Yeah, there's no surprise that you might swap shoulders. The regs have been all over over the years and that's when guys follow the regs. Even in my day, there was alot of latitude in the jacket department.

I'm sure, he appreciated that the sacrifices of his generation were remembered by a newer one and didn't give a wet slap about which shoulder you had that patch on.

 

[Fishbutcher]

Greetings All
I have incorporated various Army/Airfoce jackets and bags into rotation in the wardrobe over the years,
Current wardrobe staple include a French Airforce jacket from the 1970's it was nos, and still in the original wrapping,also use a French ammunition bag to carry my water bottle and various bits and pieces about.
The current army surplus shops these days in Brisbane,seem to be full of cheaply made faux army bags and jackets.

 

[Edward]

Sadly the army surplus business isn't what it was; many if not most of the great places even here in London have either gone online only, gone altogether, or turned into warehouses selling cheap civilian camping gear. I spent my teens in army surplus (late 80s/early 90s, so mostly 60s & 70s West German stuff - how I wish now I'd looked more closely at those 'silly skinhead jackets' (MA1s) and the American Field Jackets (M65s) on the other racks! Wore that stuff exclusively because I liked the look of it and it was cheap yet good, and stood apart from the fashion mainstream I actively rejected from the age of about 14. Never had any interest in the forces. Tended also to avoid British stuff, the boots aside (had to be careful about assumptions that might be made in Northern Ireland, especially in those days). Now I still wear a lot of military designs, but I buy WW2 era repro, and pick and choose bits to work into a civilian wardrobe. I don't discriminate between allied / non-allied,just what works for a civilian look - if the average Joe won't spot it and think 'Heer', I'm fine. In practice it tends to be less in the way of Axis trousers, though, as so many of them are buckled or buttoned at the ankle.

 

[Ticklishchap]

Sadly the army surplus business isn't what it was; many if not most of the great places even here in London have either gone online only, gone altogether, or turned into warehouses selling cheap civilian camping gear. I spent my teens in army surplus (late 80s/early 90s, so mostly 60s & 70s West German stuff - how I wish now I'd looked more closely at those 'silly skinhead jackets' (MA1s) and the American Field Jackets (M65s) on the other racks! Wore that stuff exclusively because I liked the look of it and it was cheap yet good, and stood apart from the fashion mainstream I actively rejected from the age of about 14. Never had any interest in the forces. Tended also to avoid British stuff, the boots aside (had to be careful about assumptions that might be made in Northern Ireland, especially in those days). Now I still wear a lot of military designs, but I buy WW2 era repro, and pick and choose bits to work into a civilian wardrobe. I don't discriminate between allied / non-allied,just what works for a civilian look - if the average Joe won't spot it and think 'Heer', I'm fine. In practice it tends to be less in the way of Axis trousers, though, as so many of them are buckled or buttoned at the ankle.

Silverman's is still going at Mile End and there is a great little (but very well-stocked) Army Surplus shop at The Cut, near Waterloo: waterlooarmysurplus-camping.com
It’s run by two exceptionally nice brothers, Howard and Mark, and I’ve used it for decades - for many years it was in Wilton Road as Victoria Camping and Surplus (sounds like something out of ‘Round the Horne’: I’m surprised they didn’t have a sketch about ‘Bona Army Surplus’!).

Like you I grew up in the 70s and 80s - an era when every High St had a surplus store! I wore mainly contemporary British Army and RN because I didn’t have your Northern Irish issue (although I have some family connections with that region - does anyone still call it ‘The Province’?).

Outdoor Knitwear are about to produce a WW2 style Woolly Pully commando sweater and I shall add that historical curio to my collection. I wouldn’t ever buy anything connected to the Axis. Bartender edit: no references to contemporary politics, please.

 

[MissMittens]

Sources this side of the pond have also mostly dried up. I still dabble for local productions, etc, but the vast majority of stores I used to work with have either closed, or are out of anything of a useable size other than the occasional patch or two.

Of course, there are the repro companies out there, but the quality just isn't there, and the wearability of two "identical" garments from the same manufacturer can be terribly different

 

[Edward]

Silverman's is still going at Mile End and there is a great little (but very well-stocked) Army Surplus shop at The Cut, near Waterloo: waterlooarmysurplus-camping.com
It’s run by two exceptionally nice brothers, Howard and Mark, and I’ve used it for decades - for many years it was in Wilton Road as Victoria Camping and Surplus (sounds like something out of ‘Round the Horne’: I’m surprised they didn’t have a sketch about ‘Bona Army Surplus’!).

Like you I grew up in the 70s and 80s - an era when every High St had a surplus store! I wore mainly contemporary British Army and RN because I didn’t have your Northern Irish issue (although I have some family connections with that region - does anyone still call it ‘The Province’?).

Outdoor Knitwear are about to produce a WW2 style Woolly Pully commando sweater and I shall add that historical curio to my collection. I wouldn’t ever buy anything connected to the Axis. Bartender edit: no references to contemporary politics, please.

Province is less common than it was; mostly just in use now by older, middle-class unionists.
Silvermans I live near... they can be good, but not cheap, and mostly too modern for me.

Sources this side of the pond have also mostly dried up. I still dabble for local productions, etc, but the vast majority of stores I used to work with have either closed, or are out of anything of a useable size other than the occasional patch or two.

Of course, there are the repro companies out there, but the quality just isn't there, and the wearability of two "identical" garments from the same manufacturer can be terribly different

Repop quality varies a lot, it is true. Accuracy is less importsnt to me for civilian use, of course.